Strange New Worlds 1x10 - 'A Quality of Mercy' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

Bobtheman

OK. So they are setting up the idea that pike must die? Hmm I wonder if a way will be found around this??

Bobtheman

Nobody can replace shatner. He made trek.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119318171#Comment_119318171

It just hit my brain that there is no Trek next week.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119319174#Comment_119319174

I think they just drew a line under the fact he has to go to his faith.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119319174#Comment_119319174

Think that's been fairly set in stone since the moment Pike first appeared on Discovery - the thing the character is probably most famous for, aside perhaps from that pilot episode, is coming out burned in the little bleeping futuristic wheelchair thing. The accident is 7 years in the future, so not really anything they need to worry about for the show, normal reality can take its course and not effect canon.

I'm glad this episode fairly definitively nailed that down, so its not something fans need to even be speculating about with 'what ifs'. Though a different aspect they've opened is that events can be changed - he could have survived it, at great cost to the future - which means he also can't be too cavalier with putting himself in danger as he could also not survive till that day. I really liked the idea that he could be reckless, knowing his death-day was set in stone, but I guess that's maybe out the window as a concept now.

Greyjoy

I really liked it overall, nice use of "Balance of Terror" as a focal point for the history between Federation and the Romulans. Some small niggles but nothing that was a stumbling block - shuttle having warp capability, actor playing Kirk felt a little off not bad just sort of "generic" in a way that Peck as Spock doesn't come across, the "pew pew pew" Star Wars style for the phasers etc. One thing that did stand out for me was having Kirk/Pike? refer to the Romulan ship as a "bird of prey" when it's a phrase they might not actually know? I'd also agree the arrest of Una at the end of the episode felt very tacked on. Having both the reveal of her status in the "flash forward" and the arrest take place in the same episode feels rushed. Her arrest might have worked better as the opener for season 2.

Spear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320798#Comment_119320798

I had thought the Federation term bird of prey was just a nickname for them based on the bird symbols they used, with the Romulan term being warbird. The federation had seen the bird themed art on their ships before, during the prior Romulan war. This was covered in the original Balance of Terror episode but not touched on in this version of it.

PhiloCypher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320798#Comment_119320798

Everybody moans about the starwarsification of phasers in nu-trek , but if you go back and watch BoT they're firing starwarsesque phasers bolts at the Romulans not concentrated beams so there's precedent for it in TOS canon.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321594#Comment_119321594

TOS was always short burst as were the movies.Only and phasers were steady beam until TNG.

I'm not a fan of the current phaser effects though.

corkie

@breezy1985 get the fk out of the way for the real star (who isn't even Kirk it's Spock)

I get your point, but the fan film 'Star Trek: Of Gods and Men' does a good 'what if' for Kirk.

Tar.Aldarion

Absolutely fantastic episode, best yet.

corkie

Strange New Worlds Vs TOS

14,873 views 8 Jul 2022

Comparing the scenes in TOS ‘The Balance of Terror’ and SNW ‘A Quality of Mercy’

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCkuP2Rlx8E

corkie

The Star Trek Compendium stated the episode TOS ‘The Balance of Terror’ was essentially a science fiction version of the submarine film The Enemy Below, depicting a cat-and-mouse game between the Enterprise as the American destroyer against a Romulan vessel as the U-boat.[1][2] Director Vincent McEveety had seen the 1957 film The Enemy Below but only noticed the similarities between its plot and this episode later. He admitted "Obviously, it's the same story."[3] ~~ Link

It is interesting where they got the Ideas for the script from other sources,

so people complaining of 'The Orville' retelling TNG plots is a bit strange.

Or the fact that SNW turning the Gorn into xenomorphs and having a 'Newt' character.

Another example is where they took inspiration for TOS 'The Cage', The Twilight Zone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_Are_Alike_All_Over

was based on Paul W. Fairman's Brothers Beyond the Void, published in the March 1952 issue of Fantastic Adventures and also included in August Derleth's 1953 anthology collection Worlds of Tomorrow.

The original pilot of Star Trek ("The Cage", later reworked into the two-part episode "The Menagerie") included plot points similar to that touched upon in this episode 'People Are Alike All Over'.

, particularly the aspect of humans being put on display for study. Coincidentally, that pilot also co-starred Susan Oliver in a similar role (Vina, a female has the task of making the captive feel more at ease). The Star Trek animated episode Eye of the Beholder would also feature some of the crew of the USS Enterprise being placed in a zoo by the inhabitants of Lactra VII.

https://trekmovie.com/2016/06/14/top-10-twilight-zone-episodes-for-star-trek-fans/

Bobtheman

I'm sad that they sealed his fate. I really am. I was hoping he'd be the captain for next few decades like kirk and Picard.

I'm also hoping at some point they trek forward.

I know Picard did somewhat but I mean a new captain in a forward time line.

I'm pretty sick of prequels

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119334182#Comment_119334182

We got that with Discovery - careful what you wish for!

SNW has to be the way it is really, they can't keep creating these new timelines the whole time, it's better that the TV shows all officially exist in the same reality. By setting Pike's stuff 7 years before the accident, they can get a good few seasons out of it, and then tie it off in some poignant way... a nice thing to do for the first Star Trek captain ever seen on screen!

Would love to see a new series set just around the same time as Lower Decks though.

pixelburp

Damn strong ending to the season. Takes some nerve to openly riff on Balance of Terror, knowing full well the fandom has been vocal and critical of latter-day Trek. Also takes confidence to know you can do it justice, albeit with a Yesterday's Enterprise kind of alt-timeline twist. A few niggles but nothing overwhelming. The Scotty "cameo" was fun; obvious but relatively deft.

I was initially highly sceptical bringing Kirk into things but it made sense within context. As to the performance, it was fine; fairly muted but then this was a different timeline. In any case, Shatner was such a ham I don't quite get how another actor could replicate that.

I'm glad the show has the confidence to stick with Pike's fate and not try to dither with the timeline too much for the sake of a popular captain. As I said before, it's a neat twist on things where the ostensible Main Character must learn to cope with the fact he's a prequel to somebody else's story.

A solid capper on what has been a surprising and highly entertaining series. I couldn't have hoped for a more solid, enjoyable and effective season. I'm looking forward to season 2 - and that's about as strong a retrospective as I think anyone can give.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119340635#Comment_119340635

Imagine if the season hadnt been well received and they ended with Balance of Terror. They would have been ripped to shreds.

Love how they do it as a line for line remake as well. At first I couldn't put my finger on the odd way Pike was acting like the walking round the bridge or the weird acting from the station captain.

That's also how they made the movie Airplane. A lot of the dialogue, pace and plot is a movie called Zero Hour that they just bought the rights to and then hammed it up.

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119340635#Comment_119340635

I have watched a few episodes of the original series recently again and I think Shatner was a good actor. As Patrick Stewart said he firmly laid the foundations of Trek. Without shatner I don't think it would have worked as well.

He is no Oscar winner but he is a credible actor.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119340812#Comment_119340812

They also had some visual nods; I liked how they threw that letterbox of light over Pike's otherwise darkened face during close ups. Was similar to what they did a lot on the 60s show.

Re the canon, I gotta say the whole "nobody knows what a Romulan looks like" a bit of a stretch. I know it's from TOS but in retrospect it's a very hard one to swallow. I'd honestly forgotten it WAS part of canon til it came up in this episode. All the galaxy and nobody ever took a Polaroid of a Romulan? Or the Vulcans never spoke candidly that "look guys we don't mention it but they're us, basically".

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119342392#Comment_119342392

I think Shatner had a range, and a good director made good use of it - Wrath of Khan and Nicholas Meyer in general appeared to work the best, most restrained performances. But when he hammed it up? Hooo boy.

odyssey06

Re: Shatner's acting, I am reminded of this quote by John Gielgud...

"You can be good in a good movie, you can be good in a bad movie, you can be bad in a bad movie, but never, ever, be bad in a good movie."

PhiloCypher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119339508#Comment_119339508

Spot on. They need to pick a Lane and stick with it at this stage. I want any spinoff to build off the continuity of the last one ala 90s trek, not be jumping from one era to another , with one shows mistakes in one era boxing in what the others can do.

corkie

@pixelburp Re the canon, I gotta say the whole "nobody knows what a Romulan looks like" a bit of a stretch. I know it's from TOS but in retrospect it's a very hard one to swallow.

"jolan tru"

"Sab khut hafeth, frazhannempal was qailefeth"

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Romulan

'BoT' was the episode, they where first introduced, so was probably an easy thing to swallow back then?

https://michaelchabon.medium.com/some-notes-on-romulans-b1c7f30a383f

Bobtheman

We will agree to disagree about shatners acting.

I'm still very much in favour of a trek that moves the time line forward with new faces.

I think discovery made a mistake jumping a thousand years ahead but then again it started as another god dam prequel.

I do accept that SNW is a great show with a great captain but its still another prequel. The third since DS9.

I have pretty much decided to focus on just watching SNW and forgetting Picard and discovery.

Going back to old characters shows a lack of vision - plain and simple.

Mount would have been a good captain in any Era.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119343739#Comment_119343739

Totally, but you have to keep in mind that this show was never meant to happen. It was a fluke, with a crew that was only meant to exist as a temporary little cameo story in Discovery. Except fans much preferred these characters over Discovery's own characters, so they ended up having to run with it - and thankfully so!

So all things being equal, in future shows i'd rather they start looking ahead to the era right after TNG DS9 and Voyager, but equally I'm glad that this happy little accident happened in the mean time.

eadrom

Given they've already managed to recast Kirk, Spock, Uhura, and the Enterprise itself, anyone else thinking that they might be slowly gearing up for a full-on TOS remake?

I mean, if this show is still going strong in 5 or 6 years time, and I'm sure adding more TOS crew along the way, then... why not?

They must be thinking about it.

Sad Professor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119345018#Comment_119345018

I'd be surprised if they are doing any thinking or planning ahead at all. If they were they'd be holding back on more things but they are not holding back on anything that I can see except stuff that they don't know what to do with yet, like La'an being related to Khan. The main reason we're getting recast Kirk, Uhura etc, is because Kurtzman and Goldsman don't really know Star Trek that well.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119345018#Comment_119345018

Well we also had Scotty, sorta. There is a Chief Engineering role to be filled n' all, I'd say even money Montgomery Scott turns up. Be nice if they actually cast a bloody Scot this time.

AllForIt

I haven't had much to complain about in SNW's and I'm glad to see everyone seems to be enjoying it. I also sense the series so far is being a bit overhypyed but I think that's due to the sense of relief that it's not the unmitigated disaster that Discovery was.

I'm finding it hard to connect with the crew apart from the captain and Spock. I was actually glad to see Hemmer killed off because he was one that I found totally unlikable with his constant grumpy manner. The rest might grow on me as the series progresses.

I have to say the choice of actor for Kirk couldn't be more off. Shatner was fair haired to blond, and good looking, but this guy they choose has thick jet black hair, big thick hairy eyebrows, and a bit, well, ugly. Also, even worse, his demeanour was nothing like the original Kirk.

Anyway don't get me wrong, these are somewhat petty grips. The first series was great overall, and prolly better than all the other first series of all the other incarnations of ST. Looking forward to S2.

PhiloCypher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119345018#Comment_119345018

That was my initial thought , and if it turned out to be as good as SNW I almost wouldn't be against it. But I think it unlikely the actors playing the TOS characters would be willing to play them for 10+ seasons between SNW and a TOS REBOOT.

Bobtheman

I really hope they don't start dragging in more TOS characters. Spock and Uhura are enough. Show some creativity guys

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347194#Comment_119347194

It's Strange New Worlds not same old faces.

pixelburp

I think there's latitude to bring in Scott given what happened, but I'd hope they stick with Ortega than drop her for Sulu.

And to that end, shame we never got a Captain Sulu show; always seemed like one of the more egregious open goals missed in the franchise.

PhiloCypher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348378#Comment_119348378

Yeh I find it bizarre given their obsession with Prequels that they've never thought to cover the Enterprise B or C era.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348850#Comment_119348850

The nostalgia era came too late for George Takei unfortunately.

corkie

@pixelburp Already mentioned about 'World Enough And Time' in episode 1 thread.

The first link below has Marc Scott Zicree discussing how he wrote & directed the episode.

He also mentions the 'Captain Sulu Star Trek pilot' which was made into 'New Voyages World Enough and Time'.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119113704#Comment_119113704

Johnny Storm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119328782#Comment_119328782

Excellent video, thanks Corkie.

Nimoy's eyebrow acting FTW!!!!

TheIrishGrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119328782#Comment_119328782

Finally got around to watching all of that. That was amazing and goes to show the value the writers place on Trek. It is extremely interesting to see HOW closely they were able to stick to the original without alienating more casual viewers. No mean feat. Too often, Sci-Fi franchises get caught up in their own web. While this can mean a "meatier" experience for more dedicated viewers, it can leave passing viewers a bit confused. Example: I was watching Hawkeye as it came out last year (Quite enjoyable). Was watching one episode where the fired an arrow at a van. Hawkeye then fired an arrow with a little arrowhead with a Pym logo at it and it expanded. All well and good for me, but for the person watching? "Yeah, it's a shrink/grow thing from Ant-man movie" "Uh.. OK".

So it's a balancing act. And they balanced it wonderfully this season. What a cracker of a first season. IMHO, the best first Trek season. Every character fully formed. Even transformed (Fleshing out a character we have known for over 50 years in Uhura who hadn't even appeared previously elsewhere). Man it's so strange to look back and see how creaky season 1 of TNG and DS9 were until they actors and writers REALLY got to know their characters and fit into them.

Evade

I haven't read the rest of the thread and I'm only about half way through the episode but I'm disappointed they didn't cast James Frain as the Romulan commander.