Car Accident

Peter256

I was involved in a 2 car collision. As I approached a T- Junction coming from a narrow back country road onto a secondary road. I stopped at the junction looked left and right and made a right turn onto the secondary road. After I completed the full manouver a car traveling on the road immediately ran into the rear of me causing me to spin of to the side while the other driver colided with a lamp post.

When we both got out of the cars, he had frontal damage with air bags out while my car had bad rear damage.The other driver said that I had turned out from the junction a bit quick and we we both in a bit of shock . I was confused as of how I never seen the other car coming, and I was thinking i must have been at fault with lack of consentration. The man seemed reasonable about it though and said that no juries was the main thing and that he would claim for his car on his insurance and I could claim for mine and get no gaurds involved. I was a bit surprised by this was I thought he would be looking for my insurance details if he thought I was in the wrong.

A man who lived near by who came on the seen asked me who was at fault and that he smelled alcohol from the other driver. Later on a gaurd did come on the scene and breathalyzed both of us and the other man failed. He was also resisting to be breathalyzed and was trying to get away at one stage. The man was brought off in police car.

After standing around the Junction I noticed the vision is very poor to the left side direction in which the man was traveling from. There is verge with long grass and hedge with around 20 metres visability so I only could have seen the road back this far.

I was told different opinions about the accident with some saying that the fact I was rear ended and I had made the full turn out onto the road that he would be found to be at fault for slow reaction and hitting from behind.

I made statement to the police and showed them my dash cam video and they said it was tight and that i was just about across at the junction. They will get back to me in the next week's to update me on there investigation.

To be honest I don't see myself or the other driver at fault here and I more blame the poor visability at that junction.

Also i was told I will be getting fire brigade bill this week. Does my insurance cover this cost?

FishOnABike

You were hit from behind by a drunk driver. I think that says it all.

The other driver should have been travelling at a speed that they could stop safely within their clear range of view. They were impaired and didn't stop or slow down enough in time.

raxy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291591#Comment_119291591

It's not as clear cut as that. I don't know how the driver being intoxicated will affect it but just because he rear ended the op does not necessarily mean he was at fault. That's why the guard commented on the dash cam footage.

Pulling onto a road you need to have space to do so safely, if you pull in front on fast moving traffic & they didn't have time to stop you would be at fault. I'm not saying the op is, nobody can tell that from a boards post.

Op I'd go back to the junction & take photos/video to demonstrate the poor visibility to give your solicitor, it sounds like you'll be needing one.

Maybe a complaint to the local council that the junction is unsafe.

Peter256

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291673#Comment_119291673

If I go ahead and make complaint to the council about junction been unsafe then they will probably go out and trim back or removed hedging maybe before my insurance officer can investigate and check it out for their report. They have actually took out the hedging some years back on the other side of junction to improve the visability but unfortunately the side that effected my visibility was never altered except as i can see from Google street map it was trimmed back at that time.

brownbinman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293800#Comment_119293800

go back out and take plenty of pics of the junction asap

raxy

That's why I said to take pictures/video to demonstrate it.

But you're probably right in waiting before complaining. Even without complaining if this goes to court they may be notified & cut it back anyway to prevent any further accidents/claims.

Peter256

Yeah I have gone out and taken pics and I also took a video sitting in car at the junction in the position I was before I made the manouver of crossing on the day of the accident. I wanted to see how many seconds it takes for a car coming into my view to pass by the junction. A car that looked to be traveling at the 80 km/h limit or less took 2 or 3 seconds to pass junction. And as my accident manouver crossing at that junction before point of impact with the other vehicle took around 4 seconds it would make sense and show the other driver was just out of my line of sight on the day. Maybe I should have delayed a little longer before crossing and I would have saw him coming but I did come to stop and looked left and right before completing the turn.

Pissy Missy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295201#Comment_119295201

Glad neither of you were hurt, we live near a similar junction situation where there's poor visibility, I always pull down my window to listen out if theres a car coming and would recommend others to do the same in a similar situation. Hope things work out for you.

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295201#Comment_119295201

If possible, you could stop at the junction and then get a second car to come from the direction of the other driver and see where that person can first spot you. Then measure the distance from that point to where the collision was and use that to work out how long in seconds he had to stop assuming travelling at 80kph. That'll give you a better estimation of what sort of time you're dealing with.

Peter256

Just to update on my accident case. I finally got speaking to the insurance claims department today. Firstly I got speaking to a girl who told me I would be liable because the other driver had the road and I pulled out in front of him. She also told me that even though the vision at junction was obscured she didn't think I could have a case against the council because many junctions in the country are this way.

I also received a call from my claims handler. He told me that he needs to investigate it more and wouldn't be so quick to make me liable yet. He said he will send somebody out next week to meet me and to look at the T-Junction.

Eggs For Dinner

The claims handler is correct. Nobody decides liability on the strength of an initial phone call ( though it can be obvious some times).

Peter256

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291673#Comment_119291673

Just to update on my accident situation. I spoke to a solicitor yesterday and she told me to claim for my car through the other drivers insurance.

She seemed to think that once the other driver is been charged with drink driving that he is in the wrong here.

Even when I mentioned that the junction visibility was more the fault, she didn't seem interested in that. She just told me that I should claim on his insurance and that I have been honest enough about it already.

I emailed my claims handler to see what his opinion on this is so will probably get a reply on Monday. I am also meeting a lady working on behalf of the insurance who it coming out to the accident location to compile a report.

Anyway even if I was going to claim for car from the other drivers insurance, I don't think it would be possible as I have sold my car to breakers. When speaking to my insurance last week, they told me that it was ok to do this. But i think from their point of view they are not thinking about me making a claim from the other driver. As i said previously one lady from my insurance who I spoke with seemed to think the fault will be with me.

It's all a bit confusing to be honest.

SCOOP 64

i think you were bit quick selling your car to a breakers, i would have waited until this was all sorted, as for the lady on the phone who said you were to blame i would place no credence.

Peter256

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119345468#Comment_119345468

My insurance company told me that it would be ok to sell the car on to breakers. They asked me had I got photos of my damaged car and I told them I had. Also I didn't want storage fees building up as it still has to be decided by the insurance who's at fault here.

Hotblack Desiato

It'd be a brave/foolhardy insurer who tried to argue that a legally drunk driver is NOT liable for an accident.

Selling the car before settling the claim was probably a mistake, but you can still claim for the loss of value.

Of course YOUR insurer said it was ok, they won't be the ones paying out and they don't care if you're at a loss.

You should not be out of pocket one cent for this (taxis, hire car etc) and claim from the other driver's insurance for any loss of NCB or future loading which may be applied to you - just having a claim in your history even not your fault is a hassle and restricts your ability to switch insurer, and we all know that regular switching is the only thing which keeps motor insurers semi-honest.

kirving

Unless the other driver gets off on a technicality, or wasn't over the limit at the station, despite drinking and failing the roadside test.

The fact you had straightened the car before you were hit, helps your case, but is not cut and dry I don't think.

If the others driver could prove (say with a dashcam) that they were travelling below the limit, and they reacted very quickly upon seeing you, then thier insurer may be more likely to fight the case.

macvin

Poor Visibility? - eh, did the driver not have eyes that he could not see that there was poor visibility?

Don't be trying to defend a drunk driver that was not driving with due care and probably was driving at speed and was unable to avoid rear ending you at a junction.

Peter256

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348431#Comment_119348431

A few days after the accident the police officer did tell me that the other driver is been charged with drink driving.

He didn't have a dash cam so I am guessing if the police wanted to find out what speed he was traveling at, maybe they could find out through his car's ECU.

I did have a dashcam that shows that I had completed my turn and straightened up just about. When I showed the video to the police officer he said "that was tight". So by the sounds of that he wasn't saying that the other driver was totally wrong even if he has drink driving charge.

When asking the police officer would I have to go to court, he just replied that generally when someone is hit from from behind its the driver behind at fault but this situation is different so he would update me in the coming weeks when he discusses it with his super intendant. He said the insurance will be separate issue but they would probably be looking for the police report.

Tomorrow evening I am meeting a lady at the accident scene who is doing the report on behalf of my insurance company.

As I said previously when I spoke to a solicitor about it she just told me to claim against the other driver and that he was drink driving end of story. She didn't seem to want to take anything else into consideration like the junction visibility.

I guess I will have to see who the insurances decides is at fault because they will have the final decision.

kirving

Oh absolutely, fully agree with you, just giving a potential scenario, which very likely won't apply here.

Peter256

Just an update on this. I had a meeting with the lady doing a accident report for the insurance company today.

She wrote down a statement of events about what happened that day and took and took pics of the T-Juntion.

She didn't seem to be laying fault with the other driver even with his drink driving charge but she said it could still be a factor and especially how much over the limit he actually was. By the sounds of it if he wasn't much over the limit then the fault will be laid with me and she said if his drink driving charge was trew out in court then we be definitely have no case. I think she said she seen that happen before, I guess if the drivers were not much over limit and not at fault for an accident.

Her final opinion before we finished was that she would advise the insurance to see how the drink driving charge plays out. Then I asked her would it take until that before a decision would be made by insurance on who is at fault and she said the decision could be made before that. I am guessing when they find out from the police report and how much over the limit the other driver was will be a factor. But she also said I would have problems on how I pulled out at the junction.

I told her that a solicitor advised me to claim from the other drivers insurance and that he was drink driving and in the wrong. But the lady didn't seem to think much of that opinion. She said it was up to me if I made a claim or not and that it doesn't mean I will receive anything.

She asked me who did I think was at fault. I said that I blamed the junction visibility but I don't think the insurance are going to take this into consideration. She also ask me did i look left and right, and to be specific in what order. I showed her my dashcam video showing that I had completed the full turn before been rear ended but I am thinking now that maybe I should have ever said I had a dashcam in the beginning because the video does show that that impact happened fairly immediate after turning onto the main road. But i know the other driver come down hill could have been moving at speed and caught me in them seconds, even if he wasn't in my line of sight when turning with junction visibility issue.. She said that there would be no proof of what his speed was though.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119366234#Comment_119366234

To be honest, you can't blame poor viability at the junction. You're meant to drive to the conditions and circumstances you meet. Unless he's done for being well over the limit, the accident is your fault. Sorry if it sounds harsh but it does sound like you pulled out in front of him.

Seth Brundle

Just an update on this. I had a meeting with the lady doing a accident report for the insurance company today.

Your insurance company or the other drivers insurance company?

If she was from the other drivers insurance company, then they won't want to assume any liability so they can minimise any payout

Peter256

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119366402#Comment_119366402

The lady is acting on behalf of my insurance company.

asdfg87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119366234#Comment_119366234

I was told some years ago that the Council are responcible to cut and maintain the visibility for one yard (3 feet) either side of the roadside.

Peter256

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119366259#Comment_119366259

There is possibility if the other driver was traveling at over the speed limit, he wouldn't have the reaction time to slow up especially when had been drinking.

I calculated that it only takes a car seconds to cover 50 or 60 yards, even if doing the speed limit and if they are speeding or traveling above the speed limit, then even if I had a clear enough view that day that showed no car coming, he still could have caught up to me in the time of me making the crossing to time of impact.

The police investigation of what speed the other driver was traveling at will tell a lot and as I said earlier my solicitor said because the other driver has a drink driving charge then the fault will lie with him no matter how much over the limit he was and refusing to be breathalyzed and trying to leave the scene will be on the police account also.

If my insurance go against me and decide me to be at fault here, then I will be forced to start legal proceedings against them.

laoisgem

I calculated that it only takes a car seconds to cover 50 or 60 yards, even if doing the speed limit and if they are speeding or traveling above the speed limit, then even if I had a clear enough view that day that showed no car coming, he still could have caught up to me in the time of me making the crossing to time of impact.

When you start with "I Calculated" the rest is history!

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119377001#Comment_119377001

You're clutching at straws. But anyway my point was with regard to your repeated reference to poor sight lines at the junction. You have to drive to those situations, as every other person coming out of that junction has to.

Furze99

Junction like that not too far from here and it's very tricky, I don't know why there aren't more frequent accidents at it, as it well used. If cars on the mainer road are going at legal limit, it's OK. But you're always aware that someone could be tipping along that bit quicker and just appear as you pull across.

Peter256

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119377362#Comment_119377362

Yeah it can happen. There is another crossroads beside me where the grass verges were cut recently to improve visibility. Even at that myself and a passenger pulled out from it the other day to join main road. And we definitely checked carefully in both directions and nothing was coming for a clear distance. As we joined the main road and pulling away a BMW Suv comes speeding up behind and over takes us going up hill traveling definitely above speed limit, I'd say 120 or 140 kmph.

wonski

I don't understand why your car wasn't inspected by yours and the other party insurance company.

Also don't assume you won't be at fault just because the other driver was over the limit.

And wait for a long fight. This is not going to be straightforward.

Whose responsibility it is to cut hedges has nothing to do with liability for that accident.

asdfg87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119377156#Comment_119377156

This is very basic, the landowner is responsible for the hedge. Who is responsible for high grass/weeds at junctions? and indeed roadside.

Peter256

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119377456#Comment_119377456

My car wasn't inspected by my insurance company because I had only third party and not fully comprehensive insurance so they only required photos.

The other drivers insurance company hasn't inspected my car because I haven't made a claim against the other driver's insurance.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119377492#Comment_119377492

Rural roads with poor visibility are not all due to hedges and grass. Alignment is the main issue.

asdfg87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119377456#Comment_119377456

From my experience whoever owens the cause of an accident is responsible, for example if a car is parked illegally resulting in an accident and it is proven the owner of the parked car takes the hit even if the car was not involved.

wonski

It seems to me that you've made a decision like you were at fault.

How are you now going to claim when the car was disposed off and might have been dismantled by now?

Having had a car accident / claim / issue before, which was not the same but very similar to yours, my understanding of the logic of your situation would be that you were not at fault.

If the other driver had managed to hit a side panel on your car, you'd be in trouble, as you turned in front of him. However, as he only hit you from behind, this means that you had completed your turn and assumed your road position, and the other driver didn't react to you being on the road (or, that him having had a few drinks, meant that his reaction was delayed*).

The logic being that you drive for the conditions presented to you. If the other driver rear ended a car, then he would just as easily have collided with a cyclist, walkers, broken down vehicle, etc. as he wasn't paying sufficient attention or anticipating hazards.

*I appreciate that many of us could have a few drinks and still drive perfectly fine, but a 'delayed reaction' must surely come into the argument when someone has managed to drive into the back of your car.

TheRiverman

There is an appalling lack of maintenance on country/rural roads. There doesn't appear to be any enforcement on landowners to cut their hedges properly during the hedge trimming season and Councils do very little or nothing on verges during the Summer. Also there is a major issue with too many roadside trees with a huge amount of them having overhanging braches and much of the actuals roads are disgraceful. I live in Offaly where there is almost zero maintenance by the Council and also almost zero enforcement of landowners.

Peter256

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119377517#Comment_119377517

Yeah I was worried that I would be building up high storage fees if I left it at the other yard. And when i rang my insurance claims apartment initially and got speaking to a girl who told me it sounds like I was at fault. Then my claims handler said that he wouldn't be so quick to go on that decision. They told me that it would be ok to sell the car to breakers. I know it's the other driver insurance that would have needed to inpect it though.

To be honest I was stressed and a bit confused over the lot and getting so many different advice and thoughts. I know now I the made wrong decision to sell the car if I wanted to claim. But the other driver doesn't live that far from me and I am guessing his comprehensive insurance won't want to pay out to him especially when they know his drink driving charge, so that will probably come back to my insurance if they decide I am at fault.

But I was also thinking that if the other driver is blocked from claiming his loss from my insurance and is decided to be at fault then he may call to my house looking for the price of his car and me making a claim to his insurance on top of that could add to his problem's.

asdfg87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119377512#Comment_119377512

Read original post, thats what this conversation is about.

asdfg87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119377583#Comment_119377583

Once you reported it to the insurance company its their problem, i would be inclined to claim if only to protect yourself as if you do not i think it mayl be assumed you were responsible for the lot.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119377596#Comment_119377596

I did and that was regarding visibility. I use such rural junctions daily and it is not always an issue with hedges but more the road layout. Regardless, the OP is all over the place with possible sources of responsibility. He should let his insurance tease the matter out. Nobody here knows the junction, the speed of the other driver or how the OP made the manoeuvre.

asdfg87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119377647#Comment_119377647

I was wrongly under the impression that he is taking the hit as i do not remember seeing a comment stating the insurance were ndealing with it.

I must have missed it as he is happy with your comment so insurance companies will sort it out.

listermint

Slightly confused here. The other driver at speed coming up to a marked junction without slowing. What if a tractor was around the corner. Would the tractor be at fault for being there ? Or him for running into the back of it. Seems like driving too fast to be able to control the vehicle for obstacles that may appear ahead.

wonski

As the op has third party only he can only claim against the other driver through the other drivers insurer.

That's why his (op) insurance company didn't care if he sold the car or not.

It will be tough one, but get in touch with Garda, get the pulse number, the other driver details and make a claim.

Hope the drunk one doesn't claim against your policy, but there is a chance their own insurance company gives him good advice and maybe settle your claim without admission of liability given the circumstances?

I am guessing your car was relatively old (third party only policy and sent to the scrapyard)?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119377495#Comment_119377495

Are you claiming from your own insurance even though you and your car aren't covered?

Why have you not made a calim against the other driver's insurance?

Damien360

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119377495#Comment_119377495

You should put in a claim as I guarantee you the other party did that already against you.

To explain, my sister in law was hit going through lights just before covid. They insisted my sister in law was at fault and put in a claim. Only for CCTV belonging to a house owner beside the junction this would have ended as a claim against her. All she wanted was the value of her car and that took months of foot dragging. The gardai had proceeded to prosecute on the evidence of a witness behind the person that sailed through a red. But that didn’t matter for insurance. It was the CCTV that ended the matter.

Gael23

The other driver had right of way but the fact he was under the influence may change things in the OPs favour

Seth Brundle

The right of way may or may not have been removed after the OP made the turning manoeuvre.

ger664

Dont know if this has been mentioned in the thread. If the airbags got deployed then the speed the car was travelling at the time of deployment is recorded in the ECU Saved my bacon in a tip at a T junction where the oncoming car was speeding and I never saw him

asdfg87

There are alot of rural road not fit fot purpose which is completely separate conversation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119377783#Comment_119377783

That's how it works each party makes an insurance claim to their own company giving details of the other parties insurance.

The insurance companies access and decide, i remember reading earlier in this thread i did not think nthe OP was getting good asdvise from his own insurer. My guess is if one person claims the other may take the hit for the lot.

Its just a paper excercise for the insurance company,

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119377823#Comment_119377823

That's bullsh1t!

When my previous car was written off by another driver making an obvious illegal u-turn in Liffey Valley, I informed my own insurance of the event but my claim for damages was completely against the other drivers insurance, initiated by me.

Any previous claims I have made were done in a similar manner. I would not claim through my own insurance if I knew another driver was responsible

As for rural roads not being fit for purpose, if this is the case then a driver needs to adjust their speed and proceed with caution or whatever. Too many drivers on Irish roads are oblivious to this though.