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How long before that Max crashes again?

  • 04-07-2022 10:23pm
    Posts: 0

    They aren't going to do anything but they want the ball rolling before the crash so they can say "We were checking yada yada"

    My favourite is the fuel leaking into overhead passenger bins. I like that one.

    > More than 42 incidents involved equipment malfunctions, and on more than 40 occasions, flight crews chose to ground the affected aircraft while problems were fixed.

    > …

    > In one incident on an American Airlines flight in April last year, multiple systems including both autopilot functions stopped working soon after take-off. On landing, the crew found the backup power unit, considered vital for safe flight, had failed and was emitting a strong electrical smell.


    > He said some other reports raised by the ABC were bizarre, such as an incident involving a United Airlines flight last August where fuel was found leaking into an overhead passenger bin. Fuel reserves are located in the wings.


    > One mechanic said they observed sub-standard manufacturing and testing of the planes, which resulted in wires being left exposed and debris such as rubbish, metal slivers and washers lodging itself inside various parts of the plane, which could lead to electrical short circuits or fires.


    > Griffith University's Dr Carim Jr reviewed several incidents from last year involving malfunctions with the MAX's stabiliser trim and said failures involving the component were "quite concerning".



  • Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭HTCOne

    I read elsewhere the fuel in overhead bins incident was caused by a passenger bringing bottles of petrol on board with them and storing them in the overhead locker. Actually a thread on the stupidest things crew have seen passengers do would likely be highly entertaining.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,886 ✭✭✭smurfjed

    Thanks as i was wondering how the fuel stored in the wings was getting into the overhead lockers :):)

  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 64,945 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011

    That would suggest some airport needs to have its security status reduced to the lowest level possible!

    I'm quite distrustful of anything Boeing has manufactured in the last decade or so. I also wonder how they're going to survive - they may not have any (civili) aircraft to sell soon!

    787 was grounded before and is currently delivery halted; 737max was grounded and I wouldn't be too surprised if its grounded again; 777X is having huge problems getting done and the 767 will be barred from new deliveries soon for environmental reasons.

    US will bail them out for the military arm if they did fail, of course.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,886 ✭✭✭smurfjed

    Since when did the loss of an autopilot become a safety issue? Non-737, but we can dispatch with it inoperative.

    How did these 60 issues in a year statistically compare to older B737’s and A320?

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭CPTM

    I often smell fuel on an aircraft. Isn't that normal? It must be normal because I've gotten a whiff of it at least 5-10 times in my life and no one seemed to care.

    Edit: Ah sorry, I just read it said fuel was actually present in the over head bins. I thought people were just smelling it.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,206 ✭✭✭zg3409

    I would say all planes have lots of reported issues. Just this plane in particular is very news worthy.

    The tone of Boeing in the article "nothing here look away" is a bit worrying given their recent history, but I doubt plane is a death trap. There is probably some teething issues with any new design and day to day issues are logged.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland

    flew knock to luton and saw a max come in from Milan. landed and didn't fall apart.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage

    Indeed, the aircraft would not be the most dangerous part of flying to an airport where it is possible to bring bottles of petrol through security.

    I was on a Ryanair Max two weeks ago when it was 3 hours late as they had to replace something. The reliability might not be as it should be.

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,278 ✭✭✭Markcheese

    Was on a Ryanair max into Dublin in may , also didn't fall apart .. I doubt if most people realized it was a max 8 ..I only looked because it had an extra set of emergency exits ..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,782 ✭✭✭kirk.

    The sub standard testing and manufacture at boeing was already known about

    Has this not been clamped down on ?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭john boye

    One thing I'm sure of, if one goes down again Boeing will do their level best to make sure the pilots cop the blame, regardless of what happened to it.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,782 ✭✭✭kirk.

    They tried that last time

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭john boye

    Yeah but this time they can say that the plane has been through an intensive certification program and pilots have been properly trained so it must just be pilot error.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,782 ✭✭✭kirk.

    Well ya they may or may not but the investigation will prove what happened

    Who's going to believe pilot error this time around

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭EchoIndia

    With 800 Maxes now in service and more than 4,000 others ordered, a serious accident at some future date is certainly possible, even likely.

    By international agreement, air accident investigations seek to establish the facts in relation to any such event, without apportioning blame. It is not a matter for the manufacturer, although they will have an involvement so as to assist as required. The process of producing a final report can take years, even if the basic facts are established fairly quickly. Standards of openness vary, as much for political and cultural reasons as anything else.

    As I am sure most here know, virtually all aircraft accidents are the outcome of multiple factors (the "Swiss cheese" concept) rather than just one.

  • Registered Users Posts: 481 ✭✭mr.anonymous

    The root cause of many of those incidents could be maintenance or crew errors, reliability of 3rd party components, or other factors.

    While Boeing has repeatedly shown problems with new types, the FAA's hands-off approach to regulating these companies plays a part.

  • Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭HTCOne

    You also get what you pay for. Civil service wage cap in the US is $200k per year right? That's less than half what a widebody Captain will earn at one of the big 3 in the US. If you are a talented Engineer, Inspector, Compliance Specialist, Check Airman etc then you are going into the private sector. Or put it another way, how harsh are you going to be on who your are regulating if you want them to hire you some day?

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,782 ✭✭✭kirk.

    Post edited by kirk. on

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭EchoIndia

    You could apply the same logic to Ireland, and probably many other countries, in respect of many sectors. The private sector often has deeper pockets than the state. However I don't think it is fair to suggest that people working in regulatory roles will as a rule not act appropriately because of the potential to secure a job in the sector they are regulating.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭HTCOne

    I think in Boeing’s case specifically, the examples of those in the FAA and Military who made judgements favourable to them who suddenly found themselves with cushy jobs in Boeing is well known.

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    They recertified they're own sh1tty plane, after cutting corners to build it and killing a heap of people... they'll shed a tear for the next unfortunate lot to crash and burn, bit like all the kids in school shootings, aint nothing changing till some one "important" dies...I bet boeing people don't fly in Max themselves.

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,542 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster

    In fairness, nobody took the FAAs word for it this time. EASA and Transport Canada independently certified the MAX before allowing in back into their airspaces. The CAA only allowed it back into UK airspace after EASA had certified it.

    Nobody took Boeings or the FAAs word for it this time.

  • Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭mbur

    I read the article above and followed a link to an earlier article and found this:

    "However, as both preliminary reports have highlighted, pilots fought systems onboard the Boeing 737 MAX to the last minute. Lion Air pilots scrambled through a handbook to find out what was happening to their aircraft, according to leaked CVR audio. But the information on how to disable the automatic nose-down movements was not there."

    Now that the big MCAS secret is out and the pilots are given the tools to deal with it things will be a lot better. but really it should never have been one and someone should have gone to to jail for this.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,782 ✭✭✭kirk.

    It was explained in the documentary

    Forget the exact details they diminished the significance for regulatory purposes , to get the plane passed quickly

  • Registered Users Posts: 776 ✭✭✭LiamaDelta

    I think the main reason they diminished the significance was so that there wouldn't be a requirement to retrain all 737 pilots in its use and control.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,782 ✭✭✭kirk.

    Ya think that was exactly it now that I recall

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,782 ✭✭✭kirk.

    Some screwup

    How could you ever trust them after a monumental error like that

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    Wasn't an error. Deliberate.

    With all the problems now, and the amount of them, shouldn't be long before 1 falls outta the sky again.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,782 ✭✭✭kirk.

    Ya deliberate I should have said they buried it in a manual