Mother in law help

thedarkness

Hi Folks

this is probably a common enough discussion but i am having a lot of trouble at home and i need some advice.

My MIL gave up working 15 years ago when she was 48. Just decided she didnt want to work anymore. Fair enough i feel like it most days tbf! anyway her father died bout 3 years ago left her the house, very nice house. He left her his car and a lot of money. her husband also passed and left her all he had. the thing is she smokes and drinks everyday and is very fond of foreign holidays. she is very foolish with money and it burns a hole in her pocket... the long and short of it is the money is all gone. she is broke.

thats where i come in - she has her eldest son and family living with her so they pay some of the bills in the house. now they are saying they are tired paying and want us to start paying some of them. now dont get me wrong here but why should i have to pay her bills? i work long and hard hours to pay my own bills and mortgage (plus i have 2 kids of my own) and if i have any left over at the end of the month i like to treat myself and the family to a nice meal out or night away in galway or something. my wife works part time and pays what she can in fairness.

my wife seems to think we should just pay the bills for her because we are working!!! i say no but she says half the money is hers and she takes the money and pays the bills for her mother. this on my mind alot and its affecting our marriage on top of other things she has done (which i wont mention here).4

my wife has 3 siblings total and 2 of them pay nothing. only reason the eldest does is cause he lives with her and is set to inherit the family home.

am i wrong here - have i lost my moral compass??

DubCount

Just a possibility, is there any chance your MIL could get money through Equity Release on the property. It might push the problem down the road a bit.

I dont think you have lost your moral compass !!

Seriously???? NO IS THE ANSWER......you got your own crew to raise ....thats it ......priority 1,2 &3.

Sonny boy ( he who 'shall inherit the earth') can step up BIG TIME. I totally concur with the 2siblings that throw nothing into the kitty

thedarkness

ive suggested she rent out a room - its got 5 bedrooms and there is always a spare room even with her and the other family living there. nope none of them would entertain that idea at all...anytime i bring it up with the wife it starts a big argument that she would do it for my mother and how can i be so horrible. she took 9k of our savings before and gave it to her other brother to buy a house, he paid most of it back but that sure left a bitter taste

Dial Hard

Sorry, but no. Whatever about the family who are living with her contributing, you and your wife should absolutely not be paying her way.

You and your wife need to have a proper sit-down, mature conversation about this. Money and family can be a very complicated mix so you need to find out why she feels obliged to fund her mother's lifestyle.

She should be in receipt of a Widows Pension. (There are both contributory and non-contributory widows pensions).

The only person who should be contributing towards her bills is the son who lives with her.

And your wife is totally out of order paying her mother's bills from your family income without your consent.

Still stihl waters 3

So she's 63 a spendthrift, alco and smokes, I'd tell her where to go, my mother is 70, has parkinsons, rheumatoid arthritis and in remission from cancer and still working, your MIL is a waster and leech, tell them no

OP your moral compass is pointing directly at "Don't be taken for a ride" listen to it!!!!!!!

timetogo1

Id be having a really serious chat with my wife if she did that.

So your MIL has a five bedroom house. Let her sell it, downgrade and live off the difference. That should give her enough with whatever pension she has to live of for her remaining years.

Or, she could get a job.

Are the bills in question worth your marriage?

I think you are 100% right by the way.

notAMember

What bills exactly? There's no mortgage or rent. So, what is left .. electricity? Bins? TV? Property tax? Surely they don't expect you to cover their food?

The only people benefiting are the people living there.

5 bedrooms. MIL is in one. Son & wife in another. Assuming 2 children in the others. I would expect the least the sponging family could do is cover the bills in their own home, especially if they are inheriting a massive house, and living it in now rent free.

Donald Trump

Offer to buy a share in her house.

You are basically buying a house for your wife's brother. You MIL has a house she could potentially sell. However she doesn't need to sell it as long as you pony up. Which is great for your BIL who will be able to get that house in a few years.

JoChervil

OP, if your wife's brother had to rent a house, he would have to pay 1500-2000 euro, so really I can't imagine bills so high to equal it. Him living there for free should cover it more than enough.

Your wife is really disrespectful using your both money (outside your family) without your consent or at least consultation.

I think your wife needs some soul searching to figure out, why she feels, she has to do it. It might come from her family dynamics, so maybe therapy would help? She obviously is not able to do, what is good for her own family (I mean you, her and your kids). And might need help. It seems, she has never chosen her new family over her old family, so I understand your frustration.

Big Bag of Chips

Obviously your wife is being very unreasonable. Subsidising her brother living in her mother's home. She sees it as "helping her mother". Everyone else can see it as being taken for a ride by her brother.

Due to family dynamics she might find it very had to step away saying no. So I think your only option is to separate your money. If you have a joint account, open your own personal account. Get your salary paid into that. Lodge your share of your bills for direct debits and extra spending for children etc, and keep your discretionary/extra spending money to yourself to still treat yourself and your family occasionally. Let your wife manage her discretionary spending as she sees fit. If she wants to give it all to her mother and have nothing for herself, then that's her choice. But you need to hold strong and not bail her out if she's looking for cash during the month.

Make sure your own bills are covered. And then tell your wife she's free to to with her money what she wishes. But you are not going to contribute. She said she'd do the same for your mother. Tell her you'd never ask if the circumstances were the same.

She's not helping her mother in any way. She's enabling this crazy behaviour and frivolous spending by her mother, her brother and his family.

Hannibal_Smith

she has her eldest son and family living with her so they pay some of the bills in the house. now they are saying they are tired paying and want us to start paying some of them

Is the eldest missing the memo on bill paying? He and his family live in a house and run up bills - he pays for them. What a strange take on it to think he doesn't have to.

Taking 9k out of your savings is a huge breach of trust. I would be furious. But I wonder if your wife thinks paying it will get them off her case?

I imagine there are a rake of manipulation techniques that the family are using on your wife and which your wife is now using on you. Calling you horrible and twisting it to say she would help your mother. Its all emotional blackmail. They're not stuck for money, they squandered whatever money they had. You're not an endless pot of gold that needs to now pick up the tab because they don't feel like paying anymore.

You need to sit down and tell her paying any more money is an absolute no and tell her why. You have two children you need to feed, clothe and maintain. You also have their future to save for. You've helped enough, but it's up to them to now manage their own finances. When she goes down the road of trying to lay guilt on you, stand your ground. It's not you being the unreasonable one here.

Caranica

OP have you posted about this before? Sounds very familiar.

I think you need to prepare a black and white document laying out what your MIL has frittered away all and what benefit her brother is getting (free accommodation and his bills subsidised). Sometimes looking at the hard facts can start an awakening.

spaceHopper

So she has two house? And blew all her father's life savings plus whatever her husband had?

There is no way out of this without a big row - You need to sit you wife down and explain that somebody needs to manage her mothers money and if her son is living with her then it should be him. She's behaved like spoiled child.

Ask you wife if it was you who has blow all you fathers money and if she passed away and you blew any money from that, then started to depend on your and her children but only one was actually going to be looked after when you die, how would she feel about it. Tell her you expect an honest answer.

If you think your wife is going to giveaway money I'd setup and second online account, it's easy with AIB and start to put money into it to hang on to some of it.

Equity release is a terrible idea, she'll blow that and be back at square one.

Hope she never needs a nursing home, you'll be paying for that too.

Big Bag of Chips

now they are saying they are tired paying and want us to start paying some of them.

Is this their exact words. They "tired" of paying bills? Aren't we all.

Do they mean household utility bills? Or are they talking about costs that the mother is running up outside of these bills that they feel responsible to shoulder because they are living in the situation?

Household utilities.. Tough.

Costs relating to their mother, I can almost see their point, but at the same time it's not their responsibility and the longer they subsidise her the longer they are dragging the situation out.

I think your only option, and the only thing you realistically can control is how much access they have to your money. I'm a big believer in a shared pot in couples, but not in a situation where one part of the couple takes it on themselves to start handing out household money to anyone who asks for it.

Her family see her (you) as a soft touch.

macvin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291030#Comment_119291030

at 63 the equity release would be minimal as they will estimate she will live another 25 years.

BUT, it can be a rod to hit the son with and wake the MIL up too.

Show that there is the option of equity release - but that in 20 years interest will have taken up the entire equity so nothing for her son to inherit. That may soften his cough.

If the OP is any good at budgeting / figures go though all the bills. Switch providers, check lights are all led, check if the boiler has been serviced, look at heat zones. Maybe contribute a little to the capital costs of some small improvements (led bulbs are cheap and a boiler service is €100)

A few changes and you could be saving her €100-€200 a month. THAT'S your contribution.

BTW, you can bet the son will be intent on staying in the house forever himself.

cruizer101

Just want to echo that this is madness.

You are not paying for her bills and basic necessities, you are paying for her holidays and drink as that is what would have to be cut back if you stopped giving her money.

I'm all for supporting a parent in need but that is not what this is.

That said its an awkward position for you in terms of dealing with your wife, maybe show her this thread to see its not just you that thinks it is crazy.

Jequ0n

OP, your wife already sees you as the unreasonable party so you won’t be able to win this argument. It would be much easier if you got her to speak about this with someone else who is not involved in the situation.

I agree with previous posters that she is probably conditioned to play her role at this stage. Some people are happy enough to stick to these roles and are usually just damaging themselves, but in this case this causes damage to your own family.

It might be worth looking at dysfunctional family patterns or experiences shared by people who grew up with a narcissistic parent. You mentioned that the mil had done other things in the past, so you might recognise some patterns.

shesty

Forget what she has done in the past.

Do you live in her house?No.So why would you pay her bills?That's a hard no.Sure suggest to your other in laws they contribute to your bills since that is how the family seems to roll.See how well that suggestion goes down.

It's a mad idea, and your wife should not be buying into it.BIL should be told tough luck.Or that you are tired of bills too, can he contribute to yours?

A serious conversation is needed with your wife.She cannot take savings and give them to her family, your own family needs to come first.It doesn't matter what she would do for your parents, she shouldn't be doing it.

thedarkness

thanks folks for all the comments and advice, really appreciated and im glad my judgement on this is not viewed as being a horrible person. i dont see it stopping in the near future. i just feel like no matter what ill lose so best to just knuckle down and admit defeat. life is great craic!

Big Bag of Chips

Why though? There are options available to you. Why are you admitting defeat and letting your hard earned cash be handed over to someone who's living rent free and "tired of paying bills".

thedarkness

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293838#Comment_119293838

to make a long story short my wife will do as she pleases. if she wants to hand over the money every week then she will. its just another thing in life i have to deal with. she has done pretty horrible stuff in the past. i went to a solicitor about divorcing her but he told me theres a no blame clause in ireland and that if i went ahead be prepared to lose the family home and only have limited access to my kids. i cant fight this no more than i could that. the law is just on her side. her handing over money to her mother is just more proof that i am powerless in this marriage and she will do as she sees fit. it just wears you down over time, makes you bitter is all

JoChervil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293746#Comment_119293746

Don't make this mistake, please. You would earn much more respect from your wife, if you actually dealt with it. BBoC gave you a sound advice. You are not doing yourself and your wife a favour. You are only doing it to your BiL.

You are not able to say no to your wife, so you might get that your wife probably find it hard to say no to her family as well. But if you eventually joint forces you could win this. Maybe you need help to strengthen yourself and your wife in that matter? Things will only get worse, not better, if you just knuckle down. Are you ready to pay for your MiL nursing home bills for example?

EDIT: reading your post above, you definitely need help to deal with your wife. It is possible. You need to set strong boundaries and keep them. Very likely you need professional help with it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294363#Comment_119294363

You could seperate your finances as suggested by BBOC above.

That's what I would do, if she wouldn't stop. And I'd contribute strictly 50% to all your own family's expenses.

I'd make damn sure not one cent more of my earnings would go to her family.

(And BTW, this is not a common discussion.)

.

Dial Hard

God I hate these drip-feed threads. So you posted about one specific issue when clearly there are a plethora of other, interconnected issues at play and your response to all the advice you got here is thanks, but none of that matters because of these other issues you chose not to mention and nothing is going to make any difference anyway, you're trapped.

Genuine question, OP: why bother posting at all if you were only ever going to shrug your shoulders and admit defeat?

And why didn't you deal with these legacy issues as and when they arose?

RoTelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058253079/mother-in-law-help

Your not wrong, your wife needs to talk to her siblings and mother. I don't see why the eldest would get the house out right, did they always live with her before her husband passed away?

blueskys

Sounds like your wife grew up in a dysfunctional home from the start. The most frustrating thing about the most dysfunctional families is that they believe that the way they live their lives is completely normal. They lack any insight into their own lives and it is next to impossible like you are saying to talk any sense to them. Your mother in law has her issues, your wife has probably inherited a few of them. But your mother in law is just that. Not your problem. It's their problem as a family and in any normal relationship you would be left out of it. You have to stand up for yourself and clarify what is your responsibility (i.e your kids, your family home etc) and what is not (your MILS finances). Don't negotiate that for a second.

Jequ0n

Sounds like the story shifted a fair bit from the op. I’m not sure what you are trying to gain from this OP but I wish you luck.

screamer

OP if you earn the majority of the money, why is your wife spending it. I’ve seen lots of guys like this who just bow down to their wives. That makes for a horrible life. I think more pressing than your MIL is that you need to get some marriage councilling and sort out the issues with your wife and her treatment of your money and marriage. paying her mothers bills is unacceptable in the extreme, and she needs to put her own family ( you and her kids) first. Be strong OP you can’t live a miserable life.

spaceHopper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294363#Comment_119294363

If that's how you feel I'd see a better solicitor and start planning you exit. Put your own money aside.

Also tell your wife to pick what she is willing to forego to pay her mother's bills. A holiday every second year or no weekends away. Keep driving her car till it dies then replace it with a 7K car not a 20K one.....

dbas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294363#Comment_119294363

Seek legal advise elsewhere and get financial advice privately somewhere too. Gotta be ways of limiting exposure to what is tantamount to theft from a spouse.

Sounds like she grew up in a dysfunctional family unit.

It sounds like you're beaten down by this woman and her family and potentially contributing to your own kids growing up in a dysfunctional family unit at they see more than we think they do.

Seek legal, financial and psychological guidance /advice and chart your course out of this mess.

Life is far too short.

Good luck to you

NiceFella

So you're being held hostage is what you are saying?

OP for your own self respect and I think it's important for your children too, you need to exercise some strength here.

BBOC made a very good suggestion above to peruse financial freedom from your wife by opening a new Bank account. Pay for the upkeep of your family and that's it.

Neyite

Your wife's family of origin is dysfunctional. Which means that dysfunction is her 'normal'.

I'm 47. I'd love to just quit work and do feck all except fritter away money and take holidays - wouldn't we all?? But there's no way that I'd leech off others so guess I'd have to keep working!

The whole family seem to regard you as their cash cow - or certainly eyeing you up as one now that the slush fund has dried up. Have you a good job? Does your wife work? You can't stop your wife handing over her money to them but you can certainly stop her handing over the money you earn. You stick that into your own bank account and tell her it's gone to your mother for her bills. Not like she can argue it's unreasonable, right?

If you've already gone seeking divorce advice then it seems to me that she would also know that all's not rosy in your marriage so maybe this is a tactic of hers to salt away as much as she can for when you ultimately split?

Sephiroth_dude

I'd be telling them where to go tbh, why the hell should you pay bills for a house you don't even live in?

thegetawaycar

Get your own bank account and don't pay into a joint one, pay your own bills and those for your house, ask your wife to contribute a fair amount and then if she wants to throw all she makes to somebody else, let her.

No way would I be paying someone else to live in a large house without signing a contract giving me equity.

Sounds like MIL needs a few home truths about her spending habits too

yaknowski

Wealth flows down, not back up is a good rule of thumb.