Applying for planning permission tips and advice welcome

2021profile

Hi,

I am hoping to apply for planning permission on family land.

I am completely new to this and I would greatly appreciate any tips and advice.

I have looked at the county council website and read the outline of various documents required and the different stages.

Do I need to engage the services of an architectural/engineering company to process and handle the entire application? If so, how much will this cost?

Would I be able to do a good bit of the application process myself?

What parts of the process would I need engineer for? Obviously house plans, but what else?

I read that I have to submit site maps etc. to the council, where do I get these? Do I need to engage the services of a solicitor to obtain these maps?

Totally new to this, so I would greatly appreciate any tips and advise.

Thank you

Penn

Hi 2021profile,

Your best bet would be to hire an architect to design the house and complete the planning permission for you. They will know how to design the house and site layout to comply with planning requirements, highlight and address any issues, work with you to collect and collate the information that would be required for the planning application (including local needs information), organise site testing for drainage purposes, buy and mark up the required site maps, and ensure the application contains all the required elements and documents to the required planning permission requirements.

Planning applications are not easy to undertake for a novice, but this is particularly true for a new rural house as there are several tricky design requirements and local needs requirements. This is bread and butter work for an experienced architect (some engineers, architectural technicians and building surveyors who deal regularly with residential archectural services could also undertake these works for you).

Unless you're experienced in completing drawings to scale (AutoCAD, Revit or other drawing programs) and can ensure you follow the requirements of the planning permission application, there's not a lot you could (or really should) undertake yourself. You're better off engaging one professional to complete it all for you.

2021profile

Thank you, how much would their fees be?

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119275090#Comment_119275090

There are too many factors to take into consideration.

Do you already have a design in mind? If they have to design from scratch that could be more expensive. If you already have a design in mind they may be able to just modify it a bit to suit planning/building regulations. If you have a design in mind but through experience they know the planners are unlikely to go for it that could make things more difficult. Are you sure you comply with local needs requirements? The more difficult that is for the architect to work with could affect their price. There may be other difficulties they come across when reviewing it (ribbon development, sightlines, wayleaves, site drainage testing etc) that could factor into the cost.

I would say ballpark could be €5k.

BronsonTB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058252609/applying-for-planning-permission-tips-and-advice-welcome

Very First thing to do it is have a pre-planning meeting with your local planning office. Show where & what you want to build. They will review with you & tell you what might be approved before you spend a penny further. Then follow the guide already provided above. Costing only come into it if you are going to proceed after that pre-planning meeting (it's free).

keoclassic

Having gone through it recently, it cost roughly 8 grand. Meath semi rural area. We were refused on local needs. Even if its family land, you had better make a very strong case that you have an economic need to be there. Working the farm sometimes is not enough, tie your whole life to a 5km radius including membership of all local clubs, fishing, shooting, football 😀 the works! You might have no trouble or you might as we did, come across a prick of a planner who has no problem giving permission to Tom wink wink, but has a major problem giving it to you. Use your td to get an opinion from the county manager first.You nearly need to be told by a td that you will get it beforehand otherwise it could be money down the drain. I know that sounds negative but that was our experience, and by God it was negative!!

keoclassic

We had no issues with design. I went out out and took pictures of all the houses on the road and used them for the basis of my own design which I did myself. You would need to keep your design in relative similarity to what's existing in terms of overall shape,height, length etc.

2021profile

Thanks very much for all of the information and advice, I greatly appreciate it.

I didn't realise it could cost a couple a thousand at this stage alone, very insightful and good to know. A couple of thousand can go a long way when buying/building, no point in throwing money away in the case of a refused planning permission application!

After reading here, I decided to ring the county council and I am going to arrange a pre planning meeting first. There is no point in spending big money on it if it is unlikely to get permission.

They said that I do need to have house plans for the pre planning meeting, is there anywhere that I can avail of free house drawings to scale? I am not looking to build anything big or elaborate, just a simple house design will suffice.

If I do need to engage the services of a professional to draw up just house plans for the pre planning stage, how much would that cost alone?

Thanks

muffler

A hand drawn sketch should suffice. The planner will be more interested in the external appearance of the house including the height so maybe a photo of two of a similar type house would help. In saying all that it might do no harm to ring again to check if sketches and photos are acceptable as the requirements vary around the country.

C. Eastwood

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119275702#Comment_119275702

1. The best chance of obtain Planning if you are applying for Planning on family land. Firstly you need to be a descendent of the land owner and secondly if you have a housing need. This means that you cannot afford to buy a house and will need to apply to be housed by the Local Authority, OR alternatively you can afford to build your home on the family land if Planning Permission is granted. Talk to your Politicians about this.
2. You do not need any Drawings or Sketches of a proposed house for a meeting with a Planner. The Planner will give you necessary details of house type and finished, if applicable.
3. Make notes of everything the Planner says.
4. Meet your local Councillor or TD and ask them to talk to the Planner before your meeting.
5. You will need a Site Location Map. A Copy of a few maps from Google Maps will do for a meeting with the Planner. The Planner will know your area will have OSI maps.
6. Ask the Planner if you should make a Planning Application for (A) Full Planning Permission. Or (B) Outline Planning Permission.
7. For Outline Planning Permission you do not need Drawings of a Proposed House.
8. If the Planner indicates that you should apply for Full Planning Permission then make the Application by retaining any of the 4 Construction Professionals as mentioned above by Penn at 9.48am above.
9. You may be able to make a Planning Application for Outline Planning yourself. You can purchase a Planning Pack of Ordnance Survey Ireland (OSI) Maps for Planning Permission online. Google it. If you are submitting the Outline Planning application yourself. You will need to purchase Paper Maps.
10. Online you can go to your local authority Planning site and look at all of the recent Planning Applications, Drawings and Maps etc in your area.
11. Construction Professionals (CP) must purchase the maps in Digital Format for AutoCAD.
12. Retain a CP if you need to submit an Application for full Planning Permission.
13. Their fees will be approx €8k.

2021profile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119282544#Comment_119282544

Thanks very much for all of that information.

What is the difference between outline and full planning permission.

How long is outline permission valid for? Is it a cheaper process than full planning permission?

I wouldn't be fully financially ready to commence building straight away anyway (as in this year or next) , so maybe outline planning permission might suit me better?

C. Eastwood

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293002#Comment_119293002

Outline Planning Permission does not require any house Drawings / Plans. Just a Site Location and Proposed Site Layout and a Press Notice and a Site Notice, and the Planner may request other information.

Outline permission is where you apply to see if the local authority agrees in principle with you building a house. When applying for outline permission, you only need certain plans and details about your proposal. You need to produce enough for the planning authority to make a decision about the siting, layout or other proposals for development. Generally, outline permission last for 3 years. If you get outline permission, you will then have to submit detailed drawings and get consequent permission before you start building work.

This saves the costs of having House Drawings completed, in the event that Outline Planning May be refused.

If Outline Planning is Granted, you will then need a Set of House Drawings and must make an Application for Approval. permission consequent on outline permission.

Outline Planning and Approval Permission = Full Planning Permission, which lasts for 5 years.

All of this is very complicated and you should retain a Construction Professional. (Registered Building Surveyor or Civil Engineer or Architect or Architectural Technologist) with P I Insurance.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119282544#Comment_119282544

while not overly important, 11 isnt true

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058252609/applying-for-planning-permission-tips-and-advice-welcome

OP to be honest i think youve kinda answered your own question from the start, unless you are just getting outline permission then get an architect involved. i would also be very wary of looking at neighbouring houses and copying them, the majority of rural Irish houses are terrible in design , much as they might appease planners - a good architect will be able to provide a competent design while trying to keep them as happy as possible

C. Eastwood

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293002#Comment_119293002

A Chartered Building Surveyor or a Registered Building Surveyor or a Civil Engineer or a Chartered Architectural Technologist or a Chartered Building Engineer are all qualified and competent to make your Outline Planning Application and Full Planning Application.

Go online to the Planning Applications in your Local Authority website and check on the Planning Application submitted and you will see that most of the applications are submitted by the Professionals listed above herein.

Unglika Norse

Next door in Westmeath, they seem to have a mixed view, putting some people through the ringer on local needs, but not even a request for further information on this one 22/242

muffler

This thread isn't the place for you to air your grievances.

Unglika Norse

That wasn’t a grievance it was an observation,

C. Eastwood

sprucemoose

Registered Users

Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭ 05-07-2022 10:09pm

while not overly important, 11 isnt true

__________________________________________

sprucemoose

The Number 11. below posted by me, on 2/7/22 at 10.31 which you state above isn’t true, states as follows:-

11 Construction Professionals (CP) must purchase the maps in Digital Format for AutoCAD.

To use an Ordnance Survey Ireland (OSI) Map in AutoCAD or any Computer Drawing package, the Constructional Professionals must purchase the interactive Map in Digital Format, in order to produce necessary acceptable Planning Maps.

If the CP purchases the OSI Map in paper format, it is not interactive and it is not possible to use the Map on a computer drawing application, to produce the necessary Maps in perfect format and perfect scale etc. that will be acceptable to Planning Authorities

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119298248#Comment_119298248

Catch yourself on. Paper maps are accurate and acceptable to every Planning Authority in Ireland.

sydthebeat

If only there was a way of purchasing a digital "paper" map......

C. Eastwood

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058252609/applying-for-planning-permission-tips-and-advice-welcome

Hi 2021profile.

The purpose of this forum ( I assume) is for persons like your good self seeking Information. Then experts give you Professional Advice.

I gave you Expert Professional Advice at 1 to 13 above as you requested.

There is a clique of people here on this forum who incorrectly and incompetently try to find fault and criticise the professional advice furnish by me to people like your good self.

This is a shame as it’s a good forum for people seeking proper information.

I assure you that their criticism is unbelievable and unfounded and incorrect.

Here is one example of this posted today above at 1.48 pm: -

“Catch yourself on. Paper maps are accurate and acceptable to every Planning Authority in Ireland”.

If this person had read my advice to you on 2 July at 10.31 - at Nr.9 and again hereunder, they would see that I advised you to purchase a Paper OSI Map if you intended to make the Outline Planning Application yourself, as I assumed that you do not use AutoCAD. I would not have advised you of this if Paper Maps were not acceptable for Planning Applications.

9 You may be able to make a Planning Application for Outline Planning yourself. You can purchase a Planning Pack of Ordnance Survey Ireland (OSI) Maps for Planning Permission online. Google it. If you are submitting the Outline Planning application yourself. You will need to purchase Paper Maps

I also advise you at nr 11 above on 2 July at 10.31 as stated again below, which was also criticised today and I dealt with this earlier.

11 Construction Professionals (CP) must purchase the maps in Digital Format for AutoCAD.

The reason that I gave you this advice is because a Paper Planning Pack is approx €60, and a Digital Planning Pack is approx €120. Therefore, if you intended to retain a Construction Professional who is using a digital Drawing application, it would be cheaper for you to pay the CP to obtain the Digital Map, with no need to purchase the Paper Planning Pack.

Then at 5.00 today another post stated as follows:-

If only there was a way of purchasing a digital "paper" map......

Let me assure you that I can call to the local OSI shop near me and they will email the Digital Planning Pack to me instantly- this takes about 30 minutes.

I can also email the OSI shop a Map showing the Location of the site that I require a Digital Planning Map for - this takes approx 1 hour, as I have an account with them.

If you have any further queries, I will answer them.

I will not reply to any more criticism of my advice.

Gumbo

You can also buy the OSi maps online. No need to visit any shop at all.

You type in the address or if your in the sticks, you just zoom to the location, place the x on the site and lock it in!

They are available to download in PDF format within 5 mins. Planning Pack is not required, it’s €49 for a OSi Place Map which is accepted by all the Local Authorities I’ve ever lodged an Planning to.

The digital DWG version is currently €104 and can be handy if you have an awkward site to survey so you have some base lines to start measuring on site. It also means you can use it in your cad drawing as the site plan, but I personally don’t. I draw my own site plans and keep the OSi map separate for the urban map requirement.

Each to their own.

https://store.osi.ie/

obi604

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119275173#Comment_119275173

Hi

In regard to the 'pre-planning meeting'

Can a normal joe soap do this?

i.e. Can this be done without architects, builders etc etc or is it advisable even at this early stage to have an expert involved?

Stretch1432

Hi I have a question in relation to planning permission. Do you need planning permission if you put a new back door onto an extension at the back of your house. I know you are allowed a certain size extension without getting permission.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121051237#Comment_121051237

Does the extension require planning permission or is it exempt?

If permission has already been granted then technically you need permission to make a change from the approved plans. If it's exempt then a door isn't an issue unless it's on the boundary. Assuming the door is at ground level.

Stretch1432

No plannning granted. The door is on the new extension and not on the existing wall. So this is ok ?

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121051574#Comment_121051574

If the extension is deemed to exempt then there wont be any issue with a rear door unless the extension and/or door would contravene a condition of a previously granted permission.