British farmers turfed out with a lump sum should we have a similar scheme

Banana Republic 1

British farmers are being offered a lump sum to get out and or pass on the land. There are pros an cons off course. What if the department did this here,

https://theconversation.com/british-farmers-are-being-offered-a-lump-sum-payment-to-leave-the-industry-but-at-what-cost-to-agriculture-183264

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058251853/british-farmers-turfed-out-with-a-lump-sum-should-we-have-a-similar-scheme

They had the early retirement scheme in the early 00's which was scraped and never reinstated hard to see them funding the above when they can't even be bothered reinstating/starting something similar to the early retirement scheme

J.O. Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058251853/british-farmers-turfed-out-with-a-lump-sum-should-we-have-a-similar-scheme

Your thread title is a misleading as nobody is being forced out (at least not by the state).

The article also highlights the issue that not many farmers like to retire fully which limits the effectiveness of schemes like these.

Farming is more than a career, it's more like a way of life and many older farmers don't see another way of life.

Retirement is often a killer if people don't have something else to live for.

Easten

It's money for jam, I'd have no issue with it. As it stands the ROI from farmland/farming is hopeless, if anything it's a kinda ponzi scheme for Ireland which is made worse now that the land has little or no development value because of planning and Taxes. Average land values are hitting €12k now so the hope of any young person being able to buy a farm is ludicrous unless they have a Wealthy relative they can arse lick that's the only way into farming for them. The idea that the Government might hand me a lump sum and I can just rent out the farm to some poor sod who is never going to own it or make a decent living from it is a right laugh. Bring it on!!

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119251786#Comment_119251786

Obviously we're looking at inheritance now and really land is precious little use coming from a relative, 7% stamp duty and 33% CAT, It'll take a sound recipient not to have to sell it. Best idea is not to overthink it, It'll clear somones mortgage or educate the children

Easten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119252028#Comment_119252028

1% Stamp duty for young person who is willing to get trained. 33% CAT after €335,000 threshold. I wouldn't be calling Inheritance of little use, neither would the 96% of Farmers in Ireland who are Farmers by inheritance.

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119252060#Comment_119252060

Inheritance from parents maybe but too many hoops to jump through otherwise. not gonna happen here any way.

Happy enough now to hold onto it and let the next worry

J.O. Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119252090#Comment_119252090

There's also the ag relief/ business relief so the value of the inheritance is reduced to 10%.

Ag relief is easy enough got if you don't own an expensive house or very valuable non ag assets already. Even then it would be worth jumping through hoops to get the business relief.

Even the 16,252 relief for someone unrelated means the first €162,500 is tax free. That would cover the first 10-20 acres. The remainder is taxed at an effective rate of 3.3%.

wrangler

The increase in broken marriages wouldn't instil confidence either.

Know lots of parents disappointed on that issue alone, could've been affected here on that problem alone

farawaygrass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119252090#Comment_119252090

Assuming you are leaving to it a niece or nephew isn’t it the same as a parent leaving it to a child.

I know of one bachelor farmer who was about to get the farm in his name when in his 50’s. He told his mother to give it to his nephew instead, who he’d end up passing it on to eventually anyhow.

it saved a good bit of tax having to be paid as both would have had to pay some at some stage.

and fair play to the nephew and his wife. They are treating the uncle very well

J.O. Farmer

I think in certain circumstances a niece or nephew can come in under the same category as a parent.

The case you highlighted would be to a grandchild as it was the sons nephew not the mother's.

Still stihl waters 3

Isn't there always an option of a lump sum if you decide to sell, the asset is there so any farmer can decide to cash in if they want, hardly an incentive if you've a good farm set up the way land prices are now

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119252912#Comment_119252912

That's my point but if it is sold immediately it's 33% tax and 7% stamp duty, the benefactor can lease it for 6 years to a trained farmer and pay 3.3% TAX plus 7% stamp duty which is over 10% of it's value. not every one could rise that sort of money even,

never mind pay the 40% if he cashed it immediately

J.O. Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119253333#Comment_119253333

There's no stamp duty on an inheritance, I think there is on lifetime transfers.

If you sell the buyer pays stamp duty the seller only capital gains which would be 33% of a gain not the total unless it was valued at €0 when the seller got it.

There should be no problem getting the money to pay CGT unless there's a mortgage secured against the asset which needs to be repayed the tax should be able to be paid from the sales proceeds.

Whether it's an attractive option is another story (probably not for most).

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119253400#Comment_119253400

Yea, agreed it probably comes at a time when a non farmer in his 30s is well set up with a job and mortgage

Easten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119253400#Comment_119253400

I thought there is also reduced stamp duty to a trained farmer of just 1%.

The CAT at 33% is only on anything after €335,000 lifetime inheritance threshold for Group A Parent to Child or Uncle/Aunt to Favorite nephew/niece . So if you inherit a farm worth €1,000,000 you can use the Agicultural relief to value the asset at 10% of the market value ie €100,000. Still below the threshold (€335,000 - €100,000 = €225,000 remaining threshold) so CAT due is Zero.

If it was Group B a distant relative such nephew/niece or Brother then the Threshold is €32,000 which in that case would be €100,000 - € 32,000 = €68,000.

33% of €68,000 CAT due is €22,000 So in fairness if you inherit a Farm worth a Million and by the time everyone is squared up you paid roughly €30-35k how bad is that! If you had to sell the place to cover that amount then it's a kick up the hole you should have got not the farm.

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119253960#Comment_119253960

Whatabout over 40s, I know they can do the training after recieving the farm but what's the position with stampduty in that case if given in my lifetime

Easten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119254595#Comment_119254595

7.5% if the land is gifted instead of inherited. And if you don't qualify for Agricultural relief (ie you are a young trained farmer) then you pay CAT at the full rate plus as another kick in the stones the Gifter may be liable for CRT too!! So in reality the only way to avoid the taxes is to have the place Willed to you

(or you could go down the road of getting the farm valued at a low valuation and pay the Taxes)

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119254644#Comment_119254644

What's CRT

Easten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119254659#Comment_119254659

sorry typo CGT Capital gains Tax, although CAT due is offset against the CGT due but not guaranteed when t comes to your valuation of land and what revenue thinks it may be worth

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119254696#Comment_119254696

I've the land so long now that CGT shouldn't be a problem due to indexation, The CGT on the land take for the motorway was minimal even though the land made many times ag value

Donald Trump

Cosanguinity relief is 1% on land transfers

Danzy

Isn't it a sad reflection on the reality of. Farming today that there is an element of "ohh f78k what if someone leaves me a farm" in the thread.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256200#Comment_119256200

😄..............There would be a marked difference in some recipients I'd say. I could really do with a couple more acres!

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256227#Comment_119256227

If my neighbour left me his place, I'd take it and could farm full time.

His nephew is to get it though, as if that was much better than me being a 4th cousin and only over the ditch.

🤪

RobertShaw8

I know an old guy up the road, local farmer and his two sons started doing everything for him, wife at it too. They then turned him against his relations,man left all land, cattle and sizeable money to the vultures. There's plenty around still at that crack

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119251740#Comment_119251740

Misleading thread title alright, but probably should be viewed in the context that the OP is a big Green Party supporter that believes Eamon Ryan is correct and wolves and lynx should be reintroduced to the wild in Ireland.

If Irish farmers were "turfed out" it would help with that Green Party lunacy.