Norwegian government kow-tows to terror

Strumms

Ohh it’s going to happen here, I’m 1000% convinced…

and when it does you’ll still have people saying… “ well could we have helped them more , did we do enough ? “

Ireland is not much different to the UK, France, Spain, Norway, Italy, Sweden etc.

so it’s going to happen… when it does we’ve one of the most ill equipped police forces to deal with it. The GRA claim regular Gardai have a cronic shortage of armed backup.

The GRA sighted an incident in Drogheda where regular Gardai were left hours waiting for armed backup.

what if terrorists attacked scotch hall shopping center ? Hours for any armed Gardai ? Sure every person in the place could be gunned down and it blown to pieces before appropriate force would arrive.

but we can feck money, housing and healthcare at people getting off a plane in their thousands but fûck having resources paid for to help citizens here.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259719#Comment_119259719

The worst answer, by a country mile, is that "the person was suffering from mental health issues".

Well, I'm sorry - but when has someone committed mass murder with complete mental health in tact? Is it possible to mass murder and be mentally healthy? Really!?

It's just a language power play.

Who needs armed guards when you have meaningless platitudes like "Love it love"? Here, have a rainbow flag and keep your mouths shut, bigots.

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259719#Comment_119259719

Yep. Even when it happens here, the loony part of the left will be saying it's our own fault because we are too friendly to the Americans or some such rubbish.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259719#Comment_119259719

Exactly.

We should have done more. Our culture failed to support them. It was something awful that they learned from us. If only we had more financial, and mental health supports for our minorities. etc. Even should they acknowledge the cultural background of the person(s), they will be individuals and not representative of the overall group.. and so... it won't be considered likely to happen again.

People will find excuses that desperately avoid dealing with the core problems.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259772#Comment_119259772

Like this creature. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/asylum-seeker-not-guilty-of-murder-by-reason-of-insanity-1.4113256

Since he was found not guilty of a crime will he be allowed, once he's cured of course, to claim residency? I mean he's been here 4 years and counting, it would be inhumane to consider sending him home.

A prescient quote from Yosuke Sasaki's sister

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259772#Comment_119259772

And of course we will be told not to judge the muslim community because otherwise it plays into the hands of the hate mongers "on both sides". Checkmate. Debate shut down.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259754#Comment_119259754

Yes, and the loony left will claim to know the terrorists motives better than the terrorists themselves. While the bomber will shout Allahu Akbar and show obvious hatred for the non-believers, there will be some who will talk about how American planes landed in Shannon 20 years ago and imply we deserve it. The saddest thing is how predictable it will all be. The script is already written.

Strumms

If whatever is on RTÉ one now was interrupted by a special news bulletin about a terrorist attack at Bob Dylan musical at The Olympia, mass killings, I’d probably tune in for a few minutes, reconciling and reconfirming that nobody I know is there, then get back to what I was doing.. sad but not surprised…

its almost acceptable that this is now ‘life’ in Europe now.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259855#Comment_119259855

Part and parcel of living in a city in Europe these days, innit. I wonder what Michael Collins, Big Dev, Robert Emmet and the likes would have made of Ireland's 'freedom' in the 21st Century. We are doing well in a materialistic sense, relative to the past. But the seeds are being planted for a not too rosy society in 20/30 years. Balkanisation. Lack of cohesion. Suspicion. No neighbourliness. I hope I am wrong.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119251510#Comment_119251510

Very brave people. And it seems they did not resort to beating him either. Just mobbed and held him down.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119260017#Comment_119260017

Rubbish. You're picking out expats, who typically are professionals... and the upper echelons of Iranian culture. However, Iran isn't a terrible fair society, and a large percentage of its population aren't that educated, or openminded. It's still a typical culture/society of the region. It's also a society that features heavy social conditioning as to what they consider acceptable. That conditioning is not going to disappear just because they come to the west.

A hefty chunk of immigration to Europe over the last few decades has been low-skilled/low-educated workers... they're the problem.

Snake Plisken

Of course according to this fella it's all those pesky "Right wing forces"

https://twitter.com/PantiBliss/status/1540645407944065024?s=19

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263084#Comment_119263084

There's a few posters on boards with the same opinions. Everything negative is connected to right wing groups..

Sultan of Bling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259772#Comment_119259772

Don't forget, but what about the IRA.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263897#Comment_119263897

What about them? They're rarely mentioned outside of threads related to the North. I don't see it as a valid comparison with the way right wing groups are used as scapegoat for blame.

iguana

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119260505#Comment_119260505

Very simplistically, you'll have two types of immigrants from Islamic countries. In the late 70s there was significant immigration from Iran into Europe as people who had gotten used to a greater degree of personal freedoms under the Shah and wanted to escape living under strict Islamic law following the revolution. People who leave Islamic countries because they specifically want to escape any kind of Sharia law are likely to want to fit into European society, and that late 70s wave of Iranian immigrants and those who managed to get out since, embody that. They just want to live a freer life like we do.

Then you have those who come here for economic advancement but want to bring their strict Islamic lifestyle with them. And those are the ones who, to be totally honest, endanger our ways of life. I welcome anyone here (within practical reason) who wants to escape from strictly imposed Islamic law. No-one should have to live that way. But welcoming people with open arms, who want to impose that lifestyle on us. Who come here and look down on us. Who turn enclaves of London, Belgium, Sweden, etc into regions where Sharia law is effectively imposed. It's insanity.

Partly because of the kind of attack that has just happened in Oslo, because of what happened in Sligo and the much worse attacks that have happened in France, Germany and London since 2005. But also because, when the people living here feel unprotected from that kind of attack, eventually they start fighting back. We see it in the rise of the far right in Europe and we could eventually see it with street vigilantism. Part of the reason for the creation of police forces and justice systems is to prevent vigilantism. If law enforcement isn't seen to be doing it's job and protecting the people in it's society, that's when people start taking the law into their own hands, and inevitably, innocent people will fall foul of it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119265649#Comment_119265649

Partly because of the kind of attack that has just happened in Oslo, because of what happened in Sligo and the much worse attacks that have happened in France, Germany and London since 2005. But also because, when the people living here feel unprotected from that kind of attack, eventually they start fighting back. We see it in the rise of the far right in Europe and we could eventually see it with street vigilantism. Part of the reason for the creation of police forces and justice systems is to prevent vigilantism. If law enforcement isn't seen to be doing it's job and protecting the people in it's society, that's when people start taking the law into their own hands, and inevitably, innocent people will fall foul of it.

In spite of the desire by many people to ignore it, Tribalism continues to exist. The us vs them mentality. It could be something as simple as belonging to a Punk gang where you've assumed a range of values/perspectives based on the localised group, or belonging to a religious group which has it's own distinctive perspective on behavioural norms and morality. Tribalism has never been removed from society, and if anything it's grown in scope due to the infusion of foreign populations, and the opening up of the world through technology.

The rise of the far right in Europe has happened for many reasons. Tribalism is certainly one of them... the preferential treatment of governments/NGOs towards minority groups, which encourages tribalism to be pushed into the front of peoples minds. The problem being is that when you extend protections, supports, rights to one group over others, then the native population will likely feel resentment. It's not really a problem when the numbers of that protected group is small, but due to relatively modern mass immigration, the populations of such groups have soared compared to what was there before. Which elevates them into the spotlight for any person who has a grievance over paying more taxes, losing State funding in their areas, the decline in service quality, etc. The secondary, but still important problem, is that when you elevate minority groups, you ensure that they will be viewed as distinctly different from the native population, which feeds into the Us Vs them mentality. Some of it is racism (which is naturally occurring in all societies), but other aspects have come about from feel-good but short-sighted policies implemented in the past.

When I lived in China, the dynamic was different. Foreigners didn't get any special status from the government/state, but culturally, they were seen as being privileged and different. As such, when anger rose, and mobs formed, it was the foreign groups who were invariably targeted. We might dismiss that as being China, and that we're {somehow} better... but we're not. The same behaviours/attitudes remain in all of us, ready to be stoked by external influences.

We're going to see more vigilantism, extremist groups, etc because people feel that the government has failed to represent their interests. Which is true. Many governments have put the interests of minority groups ahead of native populations, often through funding, but also legal protections. People will talk vaguely about our duty to being welcoming, and supportive of foreign groups, but there's rarely any acknowledgement of the costs involved in doing so.

Don't get me wrong. I'm in favour of controlled immigration. I do believe if managed properly it can be a wonderful boon to a nation. However, the practices of the last 30-40 years have ensured that the far right groups, and far left groups, will rise... and will express themselves through violence. Europe is going to experience a rather nasty time over the next few decades, until we manage to find a balance.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259719#Comment_119259719

It happened here a few months ago, 2 gay men in sligo beheaded by islamist. Wasn't called terror i don't think but obviously was the same mindset as oslo terrorist.

Sultan of Bling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119267025#Comment_119267025

And the guy who killed the Japanese man in Louth.

Mental illness apparently.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268924#Comment_119268924

What happened with that I don't recall any Trial being reported.

Sultan of Bling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268955#Comment_119268955

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/man-who-stabbed-japanese-student-not-guilty-4930282-Dec2019/%3famp=1

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268994#Comment_119268994

Jez you can only feel for the family in that case. I'm sure all Terrorist have a screw loose. But should that be used as an excuse. I mean I dont wake up in the morning spouting ISL talking points using their name as justification you have to go looking for that stuff consciously. Also attacking 3 people is hardly random.

Sultan of Bling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269024#Comment_119269024

It's not just here that excuse is peddled.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-36972126.amp.

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263084#Comment_119263084

There's a valid argument to be made that Islamist terror is reactionary and right wing in nature. The Islamist terrorists spout slogans like "Ali Akhbar', not quotes from Karl Marx. That said his attempt to tie this attack to the trans debate and similar is complete nonsense.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269637#Comment_119269637

Now we are getting somewhere. Most ppl would consider radical Islam as right wing. But why are they some kind of sacred cow and those who espouse being on the left go out the way not to condemn. When the Right leaning do it "Your Racist" comes out not that oh actually they are Right wing.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269637#Comment_119269637

God no. Right wing in nature? What's up with the desire to transplant western philosophies and political systems on to non-western cultures?

Right wing is Western in nature and development. While you do find nationalism in non-western nations, there's no real suggestion of right-wing ideologies. They have their own ideologies involving some crossover with the right (and the left), but they're mostly unique to themselves.

For M.Eastern countries, it's fundamentalism and traditional perspectives on religion. You don't need to assign a right-wing attitude to it.

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269682#Comment_119269682

none of this is correct. Western values largely derive from the enlightenment and liberalism. The Islamists cleave to a reactionary conservative right wing agenda.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271206#Comment_119271206

Western values largely derive from the enlightenment and liberalism

Completely irrelevant to my post and the context involved. Also, Western values are largely derived from the effect of Christianity on Western societies, and the pushback to that influence.

The Islamists cleave to a reactionary conservative right wing agenda.

They "cleave" (interesting word choice) to a traditional religious agenda. Tribalism based along religious lines. Superiority along religious lines.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271206#Comment_119271206

Ah yes, the Steven Pinker - Stephen Fry defence

Definitely not Christianity, can't have that, even though the west values were set long before the 17th Century and long before Chistianity, even