Mares tail and rushes

17hmr1

Ok have a fair problem with both in a field of around 11acres.

First question is what is the best spray for both of these, ideally 1 type to do both but if not possible the best for each weed.

Second question is it best to top field before spraying or do it now and top in a month's time.

This field is a "wild" field being used as a breeding field for endangered wading birds so completely spraying it killing everything is not a good option.No payments are being received so I'm free to do as I please but want to keep it mixed ground but those 2 weeds have to go.

Although the birds are waders the field is very dry and near no water also it's very wet boggy ground in winter but nearly dry peat in summer .Thanks in advance.

Base price

If it's a breeding ground for birds then I assume you cannot disturb them until after the closed period the same the hedge cutting ban. The fact that there are rushes and horse tails present maybe attractive to the birds and killing them off could affect their habitat. @Birdnuts would be more knowledgeable about it.

Base price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058250760/mares-tail-and-rushes

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Lime Tree Farm

I'd leave it be too, for the ground nesting birds, especially if there are curlews.

The Continental Op

You are trying to get rid of the 2 of the top 10 most difficult weeds - I'll have to think up the other 8 but you get the idea :-)

Irradiation of Mares tail is probably more difficult than getting rid of Japanese Knotweed. I know I have had long term battles with both of them. I've beaten the Japanese knotweed a few times but I've never truly irradiated Mares tail. On one site I sprayed Mares tail with Roundup 3-4 times a year (5l to the hectare rate or stronger) for TEN years and it was still coming up (roots went down over 2 meters I dug some up to prove it).

Kurtail which I've never tried is supposed to do the job but I think its changed over the years currently it has Contains 160g/L 2,4-D and 240g/L Glyphosate if its even still on the market? Now it would be totally illegal to make your own but I can see some would see the ingredients and think about ;-)

I'm probably wrong but I don't see any problem spraying and not affecting the birds if you are very careful with a directed spray from a knapsack just on the weeds. If you are keen to have the minimum impact on grasses then 2,4-D will have a pleasing affect on the Mares tail but it will come back.

Rushes - lucky the only really tough weed I haven't had to deal with.

Edit> Just to be clear all I'm advocating is accurate spot weeding of Mares tail using 2,4-D.

Assume you equate Mares tail with Horse tail Equisetum arvense?

Some good control advice in the "advertoral" https://www.progreen.co.uk/blog/kill-horsetail-marestail/ but note what they say in the first bullet point 6

In some instance Marestail / Horsetail will never totally disappear

Sorry I keep coming back and adding things to this so hopefully my final point, you say "the soil is very wet boggy ground in winter but nearly dry peat in summer" which means if the peat is of any great depth then the Mares tail is growing in ideal conditions so set your expectations accordingly. Dig a test pit to see how deep the peat goes if there is moisture one, two, three or more meters down the Mares tail roots will be there. Hopefully someone can give you better news on the rushes?

17hmr1

Sadly no curlews.Birds are mostly fledged now maybe another week before all up and about.Birds are lapwing and they need bare to short grass for chicks to feed on and for them to spot predators.I could name off another 20 or so birds nesting in field but they are the endangered species.

They don't need either of the plants to survive if anything when the 2 get long they choke the ground and the bird's chicks struggle for food.

17hmr1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119219810#Comment_119219810

Cheers was advised mcpa for the rushes and grazon for mares tail but was told that mares tail is near impossible to remove in 1 go.

Car99

The best I have used for marestail is dicophar, for best results first they need to brushed over with a yard brush or something similarly abrasive to break the waxy coating on the mares tail first to let the dicophar penetrate. They go black within a week 7.5ml per litre water is the ratio I use.

17hmr1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119219939#Comment_119219939

Cheers is that sprayed via knapsack

148multi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119219909#Comment_119219909

Dicophar contains 2-4D, as tc-op says and mix the 2-4D with kerosene only and it will stick to the mares tail.

Lime Tree Farm

I would prefer washing up liquid as an additive. See " Base Price " advice on the other thread re Roundup. Not harmful to the soil unlike kerosene

The Continental Op

On the bases of price, 2,4-D is cheapest way to go. 1 liter is about €15 and that makes enough to fill nearly 7 full 20 liter knapsack sprayers. I've seen very little difference between, 2,4-D, Grazon, Roundup, SBK (in many of its forms), Verdone (lawn selective week killer), Dichphar and a hole load of other herbicides I've tried in the past and are now probably banned. All will give a good kill of the top growth but on entrenched Mare's tail its hard to see any difference in how well it comes back.

17hmr1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119220187#Comment_119220187

Thanks for all the information.The mares tail is in patches so knapsack spraying is ideal.As for the rushes I have a small sprayer that goes on a mf35 and as there is a bigger area of them I'm hoping to use it.

Re topping rushes before spraying is that the way to go or spray then top.

Any link to where the litre of spray for €15 is,seems great value

Lime Tree Farm

Top, then let young growth re-appear, spray @ 5-6" high - (MCPA for rush).

17hmr1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119220393#Comment_119220393

Thanks,this bit of land loves hard to get rid of plants.Got rid of furze and Gorse and all of a sudden wildlife and the bird's appear now these 2 have decided to stake a claim.

Lime Tree Farm

I have only seen lapwings nesting once. 3 or 4 pairs nested on ground seeded for maize. I would never have noticed them except any time I was herding nearby, they circled around overhead. You would wonder how the eggs layed on bare ground could escape predators.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119220285#Comment_119220285

I buy it locally it was €14.50 last year but obviously could have gone up. I tried Dandys thedandys.ie before and they don't do a single component 2,4-D but I know they do Dicophar at about €24 (plus delivery) which will do the same job.

17hmr1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119220598#Comment_119220598

Sadly their success at hatching or rearing any chicks is really small.The eggs are very well camouflaged and they like bare soil so when a predator comes they fly or run to attract predator to them and not nest.

I've electric fence and am doing predator control but it's an uphill challenge as everything seems to like to eat them.And if you get a fox that gets a couple of nests it will come for every nest even if birds lay 2 or 3 clutches so unfortunately that's why predator control is needed.

17hmr1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119220632#Comment_119220632

I think I saw that in glan BIA for 20e so good to know.Thanks again.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119220798#Comment_119220798

That sounds about right if Glanbia have it for €20 then you'll definitely find someone else who sells it cheaper ;-)

Car99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119219962#Comment_119219962

Ya knapsack or I use a hand held lance with a 60l tank on the back of a quad

Birdnuts

First off - fair play to the OP for minding these Red Listed birds. As he mentions Lapwing like short turf or bare ground so excessive rushes etc. is not good for them(slightly off topic but I was reading recently that the ideal Rush coverage for Curlew is about 30%). Marestail is especcially hard to control and that has not been helped by excessive use of roundup(often by non-farmers I might add) in places like Hedge bottoms and riparian habitats) to which it is highly resistant too and allows it to take over such habitats to the detriment of other wildlife etc.

17hmr1

IMG_20220627_120331.jpg

IMG_20220627_120320.jpg

Well Dicophar clearly works.Sprayed last Tuesday and this is today.Now just need to find 20litres to put in sprayer for a reasonable price

The Continental Op

MCPA will give similar control of top growth on Mare's Tail so using it on the rushes will have a double effect. On price MCPA is about €70 for 10 liters which will treat just over 7 acres.

I'm not sure on the best timings here having never had to deal with rushes but I suspect an early spray of MCPA on the rushes would have the best effect which could then be followed up with a spot treatment a month or two later to hit the re-emergent Mare's Tail?

17hmr1

Have around 11acres to do,not all has both weeds but I'll buy 2 cans of mcpa and spray the whole field,cheers.

kerryjack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259794#Comment_119259794

I have tried so manny different weed killer to try and kill mares tail that I had given up so I am going to have one more go with this weed killer if it works many thanks.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119313279#Comment_119313279

Its easy to kill the top growth off. Getting a kill down through the very deep segmented roots is what is so difficult. I can only hint that anyone wanting to get rid of mares tail should look at the ingredients in Kurtail Evo - pdf and research compatible gyphosate and 2,4-D mixes. Even with a product designed for killing mares tail I expect it to keep coming back for a couple of years and need re dosing. If I thought I could 100% get rid of it in 3 years I'd be delighted.