Self styled woke progressives are causing trouble for transgender people

Sunny Disposition

There's a hardening of attitudes against transgender people among many people. Even people who would be very accepting of homosexuality are driven into a tizzy by transgenderism at the moment. I think it's because of the aggression shown by some of the progressive campaigners. It's actually far more of a hindrance than a help.

IMO if anyone wants to identify as male/female that's how they should be treated, but these aggressive people who want to do away with terms like woman are really irritating many otherwise reasonable people, to the extent they don't want to hear about the transgender struggle at all.

It's all very unfortunate. A bit less aggression would be so effective.

2ndcoming

I'm not sure anything would be so effective. Many campaigners come across as dogmatic in the extreme with a blanket refusal to even discuss what is obviously a more challenging and nuanced issue than say whether someone is gay or straight.

It's never that simple as just "everyone who says they are something is that something and everyone just has to accept it". I mean, nothing is that simple, never mind emotive and complicated topics like this.

I personally would have strong feelings about transitioning children, puberty blockers etc and I am very far from what would pass for conservative. There are large mental health issues involved here that I do not believe are caused solely by a lack of public acceptance. Post transition negative mental health outcomes are way above the general population even in places like San Fran where the patients have been given every help possible.

There is a lot to unpack on this issue and it won't be resolved any time soon.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119215112#Comment_119215112

Problem is, is that those like you who draw a hardline on things like puberty blockers tend to be intolerant of anyone who draws other lines like saying there are only two genders and the one you are born with is the one you will have for the rest of your life.

It was only going to be a matter of time before the whole agenda imploded in on itself.

Op, who is trying to do away with the term "woman". You haven't provided anything to back that up. Not saying it's not happening but are we just supposed to take your word for it?

Maybe THIS thread will finally be the one with all the answers on this topic.

2ndcoming

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119215141#Comment_119215141

This is exactly what I mean by dogmatic in the extreme - I said it was nuanced and you then equate me with someone on the obviously extreme conservative viewpoint. You can't discuss anything with people so bipolar* in their views.

The hard part is the grey area in the middle, both on the extremes are generally as wrong as each other just in opposite ways.

*Bipolar as in polar opposites not bipolar disorder.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119215182#Comment_119215182

I think the issues will sort themselves out. One side or the other will bang its head on the glass ceiling of what wider society is willing to accept and will implode, and we'll mostly move on.

Until then, it's point-scoring on Twitter.

Spanish Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119215141#Comment_119215141

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119215141#Comment_119215141

A person is not born "with a gender", they are born with a biological sex. Gender is a decision about identity not a scientific fact. Therein lies some of the problem with the issue.

Spanish Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119215171#Comment_119215171

Have a look at the Maternity Act. Women are being erased from it. Only a biological woman can give birth and be maternal.

We have largely copied the UK in the GRA. Over there the NHS has erased the word Woman from cancer leaflets about ovarian, uterine and cervical cancers. There are so many instances that it would take all day to list. Chest feeders, people with a cervix, anything but the word "woman". But when it comes to testicular and prostate cancers the terminology used is "men". No wonder women are cautious about the creep of erasure.

Sajid Javid is on the fightback though, so we shall see if we follow them round the houses again.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119215208#Comment_119215208

You are correct, there is an awful lot of grey areas.

Think of it a different way. If 60% of children given puberty blockers are not trans and are suffering from mental health issues instead, is the damage to that 60% worth the benefit to the rights of the 40% who are trans and benefitting from the puberty blocker?

The thing is, we don't know about the number who will regret it until years later. So we don't know at the time they are administered whether it is 90% benefitting or 10% benefitting.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/23/child-transgender-service-governor-quits-chaos

Lessons need to be learned from Tavistock as well.

Ultimately, the science and sociology isn't as clear-cut as many want to make up their minds, some caution with children is therefore required.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058250620/self-styled-woke-progressives-are-causing-trouble-for-transgender-people

I've said it over on the Liveline thread, but that attitude is flawed too.

If you accept that men who identify as women should be treated as women by basis of their gender identity, you are also saying that you agree that you should respect Pangender individuals.

For the uninitiated "a pangender is all the genders or a “vast and diverse multiplicity of genders that can expand infinitely all at once or over time.”

Another problem is that there is no limit to the amount of genders.

This whole bunkum started when advocates turned away from the word trans-sexual, which encompassed only men and women, to avoid having to admit that it is impossible to change sex. Now that it is gender and gender is infinite, to accept and respect the "reality" of a transman or transwoman, you need to accept and respect all the other **** too. Otherwise, you are saying you don't believe in gender identity.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119215462#Comment_119215462

As I said over on the Liveline thread on this topic, the issue is essentially "feels over reals"

One group expects the other to ignore reality, biology and historical facts and indeed advocate for their "cause" (mere courtesy or just neutrality is no longer good enough) because they think that if say it is so, it IS.

But it's not. You can believe yourself to be whatever you want to be and that's fine (to a point), but you can't change biology and sex, and nor have you the right to expect or demand everyone else ignore those things either.

John Doe1

A lot of work progressives are upper middle class people who have faced no struggles in their lives so leach on to a supposed marginalized group in order to seem more interesting