Grandparents and family who hate their children's father

The Darkroom

My children's grandparents and brothers and sisters (my in laws) hate me. I'm accused as being a horrible person for not allowing my sons see them until the relationship improves.

Other than I'm from a different class than them (they're upper I'm much lower) they're up their own behinds it seems and hate me for no other reason. Her father even said to my wife that I'm a nice guy but I don't belong in their culture. They didn't go to our wedding and never attended my wife during her darkest moments through cancer. My family had to ring them up and bully them to come over.

When they did come over and while my wife was high on morphine in St.James they tried to get her seek legal advice and have my children signed over to them in case anything happened to her and she died.

I couldn't believe it and was left scratching my head as to why they hate me so much. Her parents are vulnerable narcissistic types who are high achieving in their own class.

Now they want my kids to travel 3000 miles to see them and I'm putting my foot down and saying no, this is bizarre. They never came to wedding they never showed up during cancer only under pressure and even then only the mother and brother showed up not the father.

And now they want to see them and have regular visits? I caved in the past but think I'm being too soft. Is it time to put the foot down and not let them see my kids? Is it healthy for them to be in an environment of people who hate their dad?

I'm open to all answers on this.

Dial Hard

I think the person you should be speaking to about this is your wife, not strangers on the Internet. How does she feel about the whole thing - does she want the children to have a relationship with her family? If she does, I think you should respect that and not punish your in-laws for their dislike of you by denying them a relationship with your children.

As long as they're not actively badmouthing you in front of the kids (and clear parameters need to be set about that in advance), I think you'd be doing both your children and their grandparents a disservice by blocking contact. If their own relationship with eachother is good, you're probably doing both sides more harm than good by keeping them apart. Your children are entitled to a relationship with their maternal grandparents, if it's in their best interests.

Your issues with you in-laws are yours (and theirs). Leave the kids out of it if you can. And your own family - you didn't really have any business getting them involved in the visiting issue, imo.

Your in-laws are american, and live in the US, right?

I seem to remember you posting quite a few threads about issues you've had with them, but your wife doesn't support you on them.

The Darkroom

Yes, I've already spoke with her about it and she's lost the plot with them now as well and doesn't want to go. The children are aware of their dislike for their father. I feel like it's psychologically affecting them so choosing this option to help curb that as well.

My kids from a moral perspective may be entitled to see them but not from a legal one especially where both of us have agreed that the best course of action is time and patience until the relationship improves.

We just felt that a presence from her parents at her bedside would increase her chance of surviving the cancer and lifting her mood. This is why my brothers and sisters called and urged them to come over. None of their business but I think it helped.

How are your children aware of their dislike for you when they live 3000 miles away?

The Darkroom

She didn't at first but now she does. They did something that just pushed her over the edge and she's taken it too far in my opinion by not even talking to them. The reason my children are aware of the dislike is due to listening to fireside talk in the small space we live in. We need to be more careful about our discussions and perhaps have them when the kids are sleeping. It's also difficult to monitor my own relatives discussions about it when they're minding them.

So any pscyhological damage being done to your children, is in fact being done by you and your wife, and your family (not you wife's) discussing your inlaws within their earshot.

Not anything your inlaws have said to them.

Okay, just wanted to establish that.

The Darkroom

Actually their in laws do bad mouth me in front of them. As far as protecting children and sheltering them from adult conversations goes, that kind of thing is impossible as we don't live in a perfect world. Their uncles are also drug addicts and are on drugs when around them I've been there. And while visiting here one of their uncles assaulted them physically. I'm not a perfect parent but would prefer not to have my children around a bunch of wealthy junkies.

Jequ0n

If neither you nor your wife want your kids to have contact with her family then I can’t see the problem here, particularly if they are abroad.

Disengage and block them entirely. I guess your kids won’t care much if they have only ever had sporadic contact with them.

The Darkroom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119214957#Comment_119214957

Yes, makes sense thank you.

spaceHopper

If they really want to see them let them come here and say close by. I wouldn't let them go to the US, even with your wife, they have the money to lawyer up and cause no end of trouble.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119214950#Comment_119214950

They bad mouthed you in front of them from 3000 miles away? Despite the fact that they don't visit?

Look, you've already had multiple threads on the subject of your inlaws, addressing all of the above, including the so-called "assault" (that your wife disagreed with you over) and drugs, and you received a lot of advice - yet apparently you haven't bothered to follow any of it.

I don't know what new advice you hope to gain from posting yet another thread, this time in PI, that you haven't been given already.

I think what you're continuously looking for is validation but seeing as you're not really painting a full picture here, I'll leave you too it.

Dial Hard

Yeah, I remember your previous threads too now, OP, and like Loueze I'm not really sure what advice you're looking for from this one that you haven't already been given.

The constant drip-feed of information is also both frustrating and disingenuous.

The Darkroom

They have visited in the past. Even with the hatred and all the problems not only did they visit but I came over too.

So even though there's 3000 miles in the distance they bad mouthed me not only in their presence but via video chat also.

You seem very angry with me, is everything OK? A lot of people post their issue here only to have cynics come and question the posters credibility. Why can't you simply read the post and respond accordingly and with respect and leave it at that?

If you're mission is to get a rise out of me so you can somehow use it to justify why they dislike me, I can assure you that you're failing miserably. If you've no advice relevant to this particular thread here then move on. I'm under no obligation to take anyone's advice on this platform. I'm fully aware that I'm posting this out into a public forum and will meet with a variety of responses and personalities both positive and negative which includes you. However I'm under no pressure to take the advice so If I refuse to take the advice whys that a problem?

The Darkroom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119215172#Comment_119215172

Then go away if you feel you can be of no assistance. I wrote one thread here many months ago and one is legal discussion. Big deal?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119215203#Comment_119215203

I have read and responded to many if not all of your previous threads, including those in legal discussion and put time and effort into posting factual advice, including links where appropriate, on what you can and can't do (legally) in relation to your childrens' grandparents - all of which you obviously ignored. So please don't come at me with accusations of disrespect. I'll be sure not to bother, next time.

No, you are not any obligation to take anyone's advice on this platform, but if you're not prepared to take any of the advice given, why do you keep looking for more?

I have nothing to gain by whether your inlaws dislike you or not, but I admit with each thread, I am feeling increasingly concerned for your wife, as I get the strong impression that you won't be happy until you have fully alienated her from her family of origin, as well as denying them any relationship with your children.

But you have a nice day now.

The Darkroom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119215296#Comment_119215296

Many of my threads? I wrote two threads. I am looking for advice and certainly prepared to take it just not your advice, why is that a problem for you? I post another thread here to get a different perspective from people other than those who have already responded in the past. If you feel you've already responded and were of no help why keep commenting? Go away and let other people have a crack at it.

You can make the assumption I'm alienating my wife from them all you want. You can express your level of distrust for my information and posts all you like, but because you don't know me, because I'm quite confident with myself and what I post your accusations of alienating her don't bother me in the slightest because I know you're wrong.

You've got a "this is too good to be true something is not right about this guy" attitude with every thread I post and it is really ridiculous.

Xterminator

 The reason my children are aware of the dislike is due to listening to fireside talk in the small space we live in. We need to be more careful about our discussions and perhaps have them when the kids are sleeping. 

so fundamentally it is you and your wife badmouthing your relatives in earshot of the children that is the primary reason there is a problem? I mean that's your words.

My advise is to get over your hang-ups about your relatives and allow the children to form their own relationships & opinions. As a good parent you could even encourage this by telling them its okay to like grandparents even if you don't get along with them personally.

i certainly would be concerned about allowing children to visit without some parental presence due to the poor existing relationships, so perhaps you or your wife could accompany them on any visit. Children will likely benefit from a positive relationship with grandparents.

I think you do a poor job of separating your own feelings about them from what is in the children's best interest, this is mainly based n past discussions. So in this case take your ego out of the equation, and think about what the potential benefits for the children would be to travel to the US and renew their relationships with grandparents. If there was a parent present you could ensure they only socialize with approved family members - removing most risks.

PS it seems a little perverse for you to put forward the argument that they might badmouth you to your children when you are in fact guilt of doing that very thing.

Dav010

I’m getting a sense of deja vu here, op have you other threads about your wife’s family’s drug use and smacking or something?

The Darkroom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119215486#Comment_119215486

Yes, but in that post I neglected to mention their bad mouthing of me in the kids presence but also via video call. As I already mentioned the ability to shelter children from such talk is a difficult task when you know they're not there and listening. My children listening in is not intentional but they know my kids are present when they bad mouth me.

I enjoyed the other parts of your post though and I hear what you're saying about being a presence, but I genuinely don't want to go over and sit in a room full of people who hate me. It makes no sense and has nothing to do with my ego and protecting myself and having some dignity. My kids are important to me but it's equally as crucial to protect my own psychological make up from being damaged. I'm an individual too with his mental limits.

Thank you for your comment.

The Darkroom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119215496#Comment_119215496

Yes, one of the uncles physically assaulted my son 5 years old at the time.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119215805#Comment_119215805

That’s how you decided to label the event, which you hadn’t been present for…because it suits your narrative.

Look what’s done is done. Just agree with your wife how you want to collectively deal with the extended family. Just because someone is related doesn’t mean that they have a right to be in your life. You say your wife is on the same page, so just go ahead and disengage. Problem solved.

"Many of my threads? I wrote two threads."

Three, at least, that I'm aware of, and this is the fourth. The first was about getting a "Barring Order for Grandparents" then another about "Assault on my son that happened 3 years ago" where iirc you wanted your brother-in-law extradited from the US and arrested for correcting your child for behaving badly in a restaurant (which your wife saw no issue with), at a meal you refused to attend. Then there was one on Separation/Divorce about who the council would give the tenancy of your house to if in the event of you and your wife splitting up.

I think you spend an unhealthy amount of time dwelling on your inlaws. Maybe you should talk to a professional about it.

That's the last advice I'll offer you.

Big Bag of Chips

However I'm under no pressure to take the advice so If I refuse to take the advice whys that a problem?

@The Darkroom Personal Issues is an advice forum. If you continue to post threads, and in your own words "refuse to take the advice" then the moderators have to consider whether this is the right forum for you.

The Darkroom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119216847#Comment_119216847

I never said I refuse to take the advice nor did I state I'm not looking for advice either. I only said I'm under no pressure to take the advice given. If someone advises me to Ditch contact with the grandparents and another advises me to stay in contact, I'm entitled to take the former advice and not the latter. If I find the advice given by everyone isn't the best I'm under no pressure to accept that either. Your post is designed to be mean to me simply because you've read the thread and taken sides.

Big Bag of Chips

Your post is designed to be mean to me simply because you've read the thread and taken sides.

No. I'm the moderator of the forum and it is my role to ensure the forum runs smoothly and posters abide by the rules of the forum as laid out in The Forum Charter. These rules apply to everyone who posts. Including the original posters of threads.

Your posts already have breached the charter by back seat moderating and telling other posters not to post.

If you say this in your first post

I'm open to all answers on this.

Then you have to accept that you will get lots of different opinion and advice that you might feel isn't relevant to your situation. People don't know every detail of the relationship. They are replying to what you have posted. It's not your place to tell people not to reply.

The Darkroom

Now you're switching the goal posts and focusing on me apparently breaking the charter by telling people not to reply.

I am open to all answers and advice but as I said previously as an individual I'm under no obligation to take the advice given.

I never told people not to reply but made them aware they can go away and not reply to me at all as if they feel their responses would not be helpful whilst they're free to reply, are certainly under no obligation to reply to my posts. This is very different from telling them not to reply at all.

You're role as a mod is to enforce the charter but so far have decided to let me know I'm breaking it not only in one way by accusing me of refusing to take advice but brought up something new that I am back seat moderatimg. Why didn't you bring up back seat moderating in your first post? Because it is obvious you've read the posts, taken sides with other posters here and are jumping on the persecute him band wagon. Then you did the best you can to see if I'm in breach of charter rules when I'm obviously not.

I know bias when I see it.

Big Bag of Chips

@The Darkroom this is completely derailing your thread. Something else that is against The Forum Charter. If you have an issue with a moderator instruction on thread you should address it off thread.

I have not read all replies. I've skimmed posts and read your replies because the thread was brought to my attention. I didn't mention breach of Charter at first because I was giving you a chance to focus back on your thread and seek the advice/opinion you originally came looking for.

I was willing to let the backseat moderation slide in favour of steering you towards getting your thread back on track.

If you want advice, and don't get to decide who replies to you, I will let the thread run. If you are not looking for advice then maybe your thread might be better suited in another forum.

Parenting or The Gentlemen's Club

Username here

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119218793#Comment_119218793

OP, it's remarkable how much we can give away - intentionally or otherwise - about ourselves when we interact with others. The mod you're arguing with is one of the most reasonable, level-headed and "human" you're likely to come across anywhere on the internet, and there is nothing out of the ordinary in what they're advising you. Your interpretation of their advice, alongside your deciding what their motivation for posting is, are a complete fabrication, at odds with reality and face value, and fueled by what is coming across as a persecution complex.

Do you often tell people what their motivations are for what they say / post? Do you think that could be a factor in how the relationship with your in-laws has panned out? Do you think it's helpful to accuse people of having ulterior motives rather than taking them at face value? The disparity between what was actually posted, and how you have interpreted that, is so wide that I cannot but imagine what you've described in the opening paragraph to be similarly wide of the mark.

I think some time spent with a professional, to examine how you interact with others, why that might be detrimental to your relationships, and how you might improve in that respect, could be very useful for you.

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058250600/grandparents-and-family-who-hate-their-childrens-father

I had something similar to contend with during my so-called marriage.

bilbot79

Honestly it sounds like you're bitter, obsessed and constantly ranting. There's no way you're totally innocent in this. My guess is anyone who dares criticize you is in for it