Advice about rewilding a couple of areas of garden

NIMAN

I have a couple of sections of my back garden that are prone to dampness, and I would like the idea of turning them over to wildflowers etc.

Not sure how to go about this though. Currently they are grass, but do you have to get rid of the grass before seeding it?

Do I need to put down a layer of top soil and then seed that?

Or can I just seed on top of the grass?

Both areas marked are currently quite mossy, and in winter and during heavy rain can get very wet.

The blue one is in a natural hollow in the garden, and a low point in the surrounding area, and has always struggled to dry out. It really only dries in the summer.

The red area is similar although not as bad. It is prone to rushes.

I don't want to go to the hassle of adding drainage, so thought rewilding would be an easier option?

Any thoughts, or perhaps other ideas?

Jim_Hodge

To me they are too small for any worthwhile 'wild areas'. Would you not just clear the grass and moss and plant a small copse of moisture living trees?

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119160280#Comment_119160280

Perhaps Jim, they are quite small. Perhaps 5m x 2m on the smaller one.

Could you recommend any trees?

I had issues originally with trees in that part of the garden. There were 2 large trees whose roots damaged drainage pipes and necessitated their removal, so I wouldn't be keen on planting anything that would get too big or do any future damage again.

magicbastarder

Yeah, they'd look a bit incongruous, just two small patches in a large lawn. I think you would want to look at something on a bigger scale which would give a sense of purpose to the garden.

looksee

While I agree that a few alder, willow or rowan would be a good idea, if you want to create a couple of patches of wild area - or better, one bigger area, go for it. Basically just don't mow those areas and see what happens. There is a lot of grass though. The last thing you want is more topsoil, but getting rid of a bit of the grass would be a good idea, whether you remove the sods or use something like Yellow Rocket to weaken the grass is up to you.

looksee

There were 2 large trees whose roots damaged drainage pipes and necessitated their removal, 

These replies came while I was typing my last answer. Any trees that will be happy in damp soil will tend to have invasive roots, especially alder and willow. Is there drainage in that part of the garden? Going on the next field it does seem that the land is generally damp and there does not appear to be much natural diversity in the wild area beyond the fence. That is really all you would get if you left it to itself, basically rushes. On the other hand wild flowers are only going to grow if the area suits them so you would have to do a bit of research -http://www.wildflowers.ie/mixes/mm/mm06.htm might help.

It looks as though the land could be limey, which might not suit wild flowers, it certainly won't be a matter of just throwing down some seeds and producing a meadow.

NIMAN

Not as simple as I thought it might be!

looksee

Its a bit 'left field' as a suggestion, but a couple of hawthorns just in the grass, like the odd fairy trees that are left in cultivated land, might work. In that case you could put in a bit of extra soil to lift the areas.

NIMAN

I didn't want to rewild a larger area, as the kids often play in the lower part of the garden during the good weather.

Really only wanted to do something with those areas that are useless, and damp. If money was no option, I would like to get some landscaping done in the lower half of the back garden, with different sections, paths, trees, shrubs etc, rather than just a large grass area.

you_talking_to_me

Thinking of doing similar at home. Have half the garden dug up right now for extension and drainage works anyhow. So great time to do it.

its an area probably about 90sqm on a bit of high ground as there’s percolation area beneath and some high trees overlooking the space.

Where is the best place to source seeds or as you say just let it grow ?

magicbastarder

One of the biggest issues with growing wildflowers in a wildflower meadow style is soil being too fertile, they can't compete with perennial 'weeds' and grass; so the first question would be what soil you have?

NIMAN

Stupid question alert.

How do you find out what type of soil you have?

Akrasia

This might sound a bit mad, but what about a few giant rocks?

Basically dump some boulders (the bigger the better) in those areas, it will provide a nice point of interest and over time flowers and climbing plants will find their way to them

Your young kids will love them as they're natural forts and climbing walls and you can landscape around them when the kids get bigger

you_talking_to_me

Having dug a lot of areas recently it is ‘sandy’ below surface. I am low lying and have areas that remain moist or even damp/soggy. Some but not all.

However the area in question is raised as there is a percolation beneath so a lot of stone about 6 inches below surface to percolate septic tank and 4 inches of topsoil and grass above that.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119160450#Comment_119160450

what part of the country is it? it could be heavy clay, or peaty, etc; have you ever dug a hole or seen a hole dug in it to see what the soil is like a few inches below the surface?

looksee

That's a nice idea, though sourcing and moving big enough boulders could be a very expensive job. It doesn't look like an area with much in the way of natural erratics (boulders left from ancient glacial activity). Local quarries would only have cut-looking or jagged rocks.

looksee

@you_talking_to_me you might be advised to start another thread as the conversation is going to get complicated with two lots of information coming in.

looksee

@NIMAN these maps might help https://www.teagasc.ie/crops/soil--soil-fertility/county-soil-maps/ or get a soil testing kit from a garden centre. That is provided the land has not had a lot of brought in soil put on it.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119160473#Comment_119160473

If there is a percolation area below the chances are that area will be super fertile, great for growing green grass and not good for wildflowers.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119160511#Comment_119160511

According to that general map, it would appear my soil would be in the BLANKET PEAT (Low Level) colour scheme.

looksee

In that case it will tend towards acid, which is a bit limiting for wild flowers. I would tend to go for some shrubby trees - rhododendrons would suit if it is acid, camellias, hydrangea and a good few others. However your grass looks pretty lush, have you limed the ground? In which case the acidity will have been changed.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119160676#Comment_119160676

Thanks.

Outside of 3 in one moss and weedkiller for lawns, I have never added anything to my gardens.

Plus that entire section of lawn was rotovated and re-sown a couple of years back, after it had to be dug up to clear the pipe and remove the 2 trees.

looksee

If its all original soil (my garden isn't so its hard to do tests) then get a testing kit and find out what you have then you can make better decisions.

macraignil

I like the idea of just planting a couple of hawthorn as it is cheap to do, they don' get very big and should provide a good resource for wildlife as the trees mature. Another option to consider if you are interested in rewilding the natural dip area that stays damp most of the year could be a small pond as this is one of the best ways to make a garden more nature friendly. Did this a few years back with just a shovel and a liner I ordered online and it has been great to see the different types of wildlife use the area now with birds drinking, dragonflies and even some tadpoles this year. I made mine only about a metre deep at its deepest point so even someone not very tall could stand up on the bottom if they got into the pond by accident.

Happy gardening!

NIMAN

Yeah I had read that a pond was one of the best things you could do to your garden, jut seems like a lot of work!

Lumen

This thread is a bit mad.

Just stop cultivating the area and let it go wild. There is no effort required.

The conventional advice about growing "wildflower meadows" or whatever (like reducing soil fertility with yellow rattle) isn't really re-wilding, it's a different type of cultivation.

I've a couple of areas in my garden that I've just ignored for a couple of years and there's a real variety of flowering things that come and go with the seasons. It helps that I've dumped a few logs there (for lack of anywhere else to put them).

NIMAN

Perhaps I'll just do that.

The area in the photo that is longer now, I just let that grow out last summer and then strimmed it in the autumn.

Will probably do same this year too then.

Thanks for all the replies folks.

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161288#Comment_119161288

I'd agree with this - just throw down a few logs, let it grow wild and see what pops up

looksee

Looking at the field beyond, if you let it just grow wild you will get long grass and rushes, I imagine the op wants something a bit more interesting.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119168814#Comment_119168814

Brambles, reed and nettles most likely. Re-Wilding to wild flowers etc is not as simple as it sounds.

HazeDoll

https://www.permaculture.co.uk/articles/many-benefits-hugelkultur

https://www.gardenmyths.com/hugelkultur-gardening-hugelkultur-raised-beds/

You can do a low-effort version of hugelkultur by arranging some scrap logs in a pleasing shape and then ignoring them. If you're not going to use them to grow veg there's no need to worry about the layering you see on the above websites. Great for wildlife and aesthetically satisfactory too.

I have two croissant-shaped hugels that I made to dispose of some massive logs that were no good for burning. I made the rough shape with the big logs and filled in the gaps with some smaller scraps of wood and hedge-cuttings etc. I threw a very rough layer of soil and sods over it left it. I suppose I could strim them the odd time if I wanted them to look neat but I don't bother.

HazeDoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119170586#Comment_119170586

This is definitely true. I know that people like the idea of supporting biodiversity by rewilding part of their lawn. For the first year it's lovely, full of colour. Time passes and it becomes tussocky and the wildflowers are overtaken by scutch, rushes and and the like. Next thing you know it is being mowed because it looks rough and unkempt and all the wildlife that has moved in is destroyed. Disaster for frogs in particular.

Lumen

I listened to an interesting podcast yesterday with Monbiot who talked amongst other things about his (shared) allotment orchard, which is sort of rewilded.

https://podcastaddict.com/episode/140985154

The relevant part starts a couple of minutes in.

I think it's important to be clear about the objective, which is not to produce something instagram-picture perfect, but to create a rich ecosystem down to the microbial level.

looksee

That was very interesting. I don't agree with his 'we should become vegan' argument, rather we should eat considerably less meat and dairy and make 'junk' food much more expensive. It can be done by legislation though, not by an interested few being (expensively) vegan and the rest eating what they can afford. Food factories can produce junk, or they could produce wholesome food; that is something governments can control.

But back on topic, yes a fascinating podcast.

New Home

What about irises, or marginal plants you'd use in a reed bed (the reed beds made to replace septic tanks)?

moceri

Yellow rattle is a native Irish plant and will supress grass growth. Red Clover will grow in moist soil. This will make an attractive environment for Bumble bees.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119222200#Comment_119222200

I went that road many years ago. Red Clover is lauded as a haven for bumble bees and other pollinators but, to be honest, I think it's over rated. I have swarms of Bumble bees et al on geranium and bugle, heathers and foxgloves in the more formal parts of the garden. The red clover area has just a few.