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Level of service at retail banks.

  • 31-05-2022 10:17am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,548 ✭✭✭


    What is going on with the banks. I tried to call an AIB branch using the phone number given online. After 15 minutes of typing in number there is an answer. I am asked my address and date of birth and what I wanted done. I am then told to wait and then informed that there is no answer from the branch and someone will ring me back. WTF1 They don't want people calling to branches and they are supposedly trying to encourage internet and telephone banking. If there was any choice I would be moving my business.

    Post edited by Jim2007 on


Comments

  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,613 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Two banks are exiting the market because they found it unprofitable. When customer are demanding free or very low priced services, they can't make money on it, so there is no motivation to invest in it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 812 ✭✭✭CreadanLady


    Revolut. I moved everything bar mortgage to Revolut. handy out

    The MFV Creadan Lady is a mussel dredger from Dunmore East.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,331 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    Good luck trying to call Revolut in fairness 😀



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭NUTLEY BOY


    AIB also seem to be closing branches.

    What is also quite hopeless is the supposed availability of AIB transactions at post offices. That is great if you can find a handy post office as several near me in Dublin alone have shut.

    The latest fun is to find an AIB branch which contains a cashier - remember them !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 716 ✭✭✭macvin


    If you have an issue with Revolut (and you can have many issues), you will realise why they have low charges.


    It is impossible to chat to someone with actual knowledge of quite basic banking transactions and they repeat a prepared answer that has no connection to your issue. And the fact that they don't have Irish IBANS cause many issues too.


    Bunq though is an alternative, but again the customer service is chat based but they do have a very good community forum.

    No-one really wants "phone" clients. They take up far too much time.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,548 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    The banks are exiting because of the capital requirements. Ulster's customer service as declining for years before the announced their intention to exit. After the Royal Bank of Scotland took over, Ulster went into decline. Retail banking is a relatively recent development in Ireland. Before the 1960s the banks operated more like private banks. They only dealt with the well off. Everyone else got credit from the corner shop and saved in the Post Office. They are clkearly going back to that. When interest rates rise, the banks will be back in the hunt for deposits again. The banker who currently won't give a depositor the time of day will be back with his false sickly smile trying to attract deposits. I hope people have long memories.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think this is excellent. I’m computer literate so the online stuff is sufficient for me. But I think you have a key trend here: Joe soap is meant to rent, have a bank account for automated transfers and not bother his betters into the future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,293 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    If you want a personal service, switch to your local credit union.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 403 ✭✭cal naughton


    The bank's are trying to get rid of deposits with negative rates not trying to attract them. It's a loss maker for them and it's very doubtful that the bank's will be seeking to attract them for a very long time. Lots of cheaper funding elsewhere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,548 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Credit unions have limited services. I am in one and I haven't stood in it in years. Most credit unions are appallingly badly run. none give cheque books and they are very expensive to borrow from.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,014 ✭✭✭Allinall


    For what possible reason could you need a cheque book?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,624 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Branch closures and the reduction in services in the branches that stay open have nothing to do with low interest rates. The retail banks decided a long time ago that a lot of branch traffic involves interactions that make very little, if any, profit. The result is that, in branches that are open, the number of visible staff (and their competence) has noticeably diminished in the last 20 years.

    Being blunt about it, a lot of elderly people go into banks and post offices purely for some human contact - 'to have a chat' as they tell Joe Duffy when they're bellyaching about their local PO or bank closing.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,895 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i managed to get through to the mortgage securities department in AIB on the phone a few months ago (which they seemed a little put out about, i don't think they take direct calls from the public) and ended up explaining the concept of leasehold on a house to them. the person i was talking to - who works in a mortgage securities department - had never heard of the concept of owning the house but not the land under it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,033 ✭✭✭DoctorEdgeWild


    I think the switch to online banking has been absolutely brilliant. Everything done through an app, no reason to take time off work to stand in a queue or people wasting a cashier's time. Recently got a cheque to pay for something and was able to scan it in on my phone, was in my account almost instantly.


    Admittedly I don't do anything complicated, just get paid in, then pay out. It might be different for those with a lot of needs. Maybe a different service for them that they could pay for with charges? For me, free banking, free app, suits me fine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,548 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Online banking has been a godsend in may ways but it is coming at the cost of some things being almost impossible. I recall being able to ring an assistant manager and have an overdraft authorised on the spot. Now I can't get a phone call answered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭Nermal


    Out of interest, which bank is offering the cheque scanning? I've heard of it in the US/UK but haven't seen it here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,033 ✭✭✭DoctorEdgeWild


    I'm living in the UK, using Lloyds, really cool feature. Hadn't seen a cheque in years and with branch opening times I thought it would sit on my shelf for ages! Luckily the app just shoots, scans, done! Felt quite futuristic.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,895 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    this is the thing though, it's not the case of 'everything done through an app'; the routine stuff which is easily automated, yes, but with my recent experience with two different requests, finding someone who knows what they're talking about has become harder.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,033 ✭✭✭DoctorEdgeWild


    I can imagine so. I think it's a case of banks wanting to cater to people like me (very low drain on their resources, minimal interaction) than wanting to deal with someone who requires more of their resources. (mortgages, loans, overdrafts etc.)

    As a business looking at us, I'm an 'easier' customer than you. (Pretty sure you'll have more money in there though, I'm flat broke after the Jubilee bank holiday! 😂)



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,895 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    in one of the two cases (the other was the one mentioned above, in relation to the mortgage securities thing), it was transferring the bank account to my address when i took over as treasurer of a small club. i think it took four visits to the bank; and i got a different story each time, along the lines of 'sorry, you were given the wrong documentation to fill out, this is the documentation you need' or 'you were told you didn't need the signature of the outgoing treasurer? sorry, but you do', etc.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    A bank and a credit union are not the same things and credit unions only offer a small percentage of the services you’ll obtain from a bank…

    i agree with the OP that standards of services at banks seem to be plummeting.

    The regulation of that industry is obviously something just done in name only…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭Nermal


    The existing regulation is already so intrusive that competition has all but disappeared. Further conduct of business regulation will just increase costs for us all. If you want to visit a branch or speak to someone on the phone, why shouldn't you be paying for it yourself?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,293 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Certainly, they’re not the same thing, but they are providing similar services, with full current account services, access to drafts (which are cheques, only better) and full counter service for lodging or withdrawing cash. No one is forced to use their CU , but it is a bit silly to be whinging about the loss of counter service while not choosing your CU.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,548 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    The CU issue a draft on request, which is not the same thing as having a cheque book. Lodging and withdrawing cash is only a small part of banking. I can't remember the last time I withdrew cash at a bank counter. The interest rates from credit unions on borrowings are massive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,548 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    For the purpose of writing cheques. Not everyone takes cards. I am a member of some small clubs. They want cheques for some of their activities. They can't afford merchant services and don't want the administration of checking transfers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,014 ✭✭✭Allinall


    That doesn't make any sense.

    ".....and don't want the administration of checking transfers."

    How much administration is involved in recording and lodging cheques?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,175 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    Exactly! I think it's the problem of people's beliefs and habits. It's so much easier and quicker to simply export a csv file from the online banking and reconcile accounts than administering each cheque!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,293 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Cheque books really are a thing of the past. I haven't had one for more than five years. I've gotten 2 or 3 CU drafts for the occasions when no other payment option was available. The OP of this thread was about counter service for cash, so the CUs are definitely a good option for those who want that kind of service. CU loan rates are generally in the same ballpark as bank loans. SHopping around is always a good idea.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,548 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    When the secretary of a club gets a cheque, they know who it came from. Sometimes they get banks transfers and they don't know who it came from. tracking down anonymous transfers consumes far more time than lodging a cheque.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,175 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    That's easy to resolve by asking a sender to mention a unique reference number which you'd assign to the client. If they fail to do so, a payment gets unallocated and a secretary can send an email reminder or call the client explaining and asking for a remittance. If this isn't the process yet and you're still playing with cheque in this century, I'd highly recommend to create such a process and notify the clients. Some vendors are now charging extra for cheques. There're some bookkeeping software solutions which could make things easy, just need to avoid staying old-school and adapt to the technological changes. When I moved to Ireland 7 years ago I was surprised people still used cheques as in my country they're long gone or so unpopular that they are nearly forgotten. Banks even had login code cards not that long ago! We really need to speed up the pace in this country to become more up-to-date, and I'm not even talking about the whole infrastructure and innovations we're still behind... And I think the main reason is the people's mentality that all good the way things are while actually they aren't - we'll become an irrelevant and outdated country with such attitudes. With big IT companies in the state we should mentally be ready for innovations and technologies too... A bank cheque in this context simply sounds like an anecdote.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,548 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    When you have a clubs with hundreds of members, some quite elderly, there are always omissions and it is time consuming to chase them. Most small clubs are not going to invest in software and pay licences etc and train a new treasurer in the use of it every couple of years either. Clubs have to go at the pace of their members and if members are slow to change it is not for the club to lead society in general.

    This is in fact the nub of the problem. A technical means of doing something is provided and then any alternative is immediately discarded to ensure that only the technical method persists.

    The baby goes out with the bathwater.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,175 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    That's what I thought so... It makes sense with clubs. Sadly, in my small ideal word I'd imagine running a club differently :)



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,613 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    At the end of the day the clubs are not willing to pay for such a service and banks and other pay agents are not benevolent institutions. If the clubs are not willing/able to operate like everyone else, they will have to directly finance it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,331 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    Most clubs just change and get on it with it. It’s really not that big a deal



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    bank of Ireland reported a net profit of €1.05 billion for 2021….

    i don’t bank with them but a family member who does lives 3 minutes walk from her nearest branch and last week from leaving her front door, making a cash deposit and retuning home was 40 minutes… they had one person serving people… in a branch that covers a very significantly populated residential urban area..

    their Union as many might expect describing their staffing as chronically short staffed.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,998 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    People often say that we are too demanding of banks...

    But many have stupid restrictions on daily withdrawal's...I needed 5 grand in cash a few months back...no sorry we can't do that, limit is 1,500...

    Like WTF



  • Posts: 3,505 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Going back to the OP, the point of internet and telephone banking is to relieve pressure on branches, which are expensive to run and short on staff.

    Calling the phone centre and asking to speak to your branch isn't the same as using their telephone banking.

    Imagine you were in a branch. The cashier has an elderly lady crying at the counter about something personal and they can't move her on. There's a queue of impatient customers behind her, giving out. And then the phone at the desk rings. Should the staff member interrupt the customer and let the person on the phone skip the queue?

    To tackle that quandry, how about they make sure they have dedicated phone staff? And why not centralise those agents in a call centre so that it reduces costs and so that the agent doesn't get pulled into non-phone activities in the branch (which they most certainly would). So they set up a call centre with telephone banking.

    If you call it up and ask to speak to the branch, you're actively bypassing the solution they've put in place to avoid the problem you had.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,624 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    You start by telling us how much profit BoI made last year. Then you tell us about your family member who can't get a cash lodgement processed in a few minutes because the branch is understaffed.

    Which is a bit ironic. One of the reasons why the banks are moving back into profitability is because they are pulling staff from branches. Because the vast majority of branch activity generates little or no profit.

    Most BoI ATMs can now take cash and cheque lodgements - why does your family member even need to go into a branch?



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,613 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007



    You don't know the terms of your account, but it is their problem.... You need to take some responsibility for your own situation and stop expecting everyone else to look out for you.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,613 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007



    You seem to be mistaken banks for charities....

    Banks don't make profits by giving away services and maintaining loss making activities. They don't owe you anything, if you don't like the service go somewhere else, if you can find somewhere, but I doubt it.

    The banks owe it to the Irish taxpayers to make substantial profits so they can recover the money they invested in take of the banks, the pension funds, public institutions, benevolent funds, charities etc... that invest heavily in banking sector expect the banks to make money, so they can continue to pay pensions, fund services, do charity work etc.... all have right to those profits not you.



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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,613 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    This thread has run it course and then some. I'm going to close it down tomorrow. So last orders please....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    No…You seem to be mistaken . They are not charities. That I call for a proper provision of efficient and customer focused services to be made available to customers is not mistaking banks for charities :) I have no idea how you can deduce that from what I said

    im not requesting a right to profit… I expect decent and responsible service when I use their business. Simple.

    Post edited by Strumms on


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,613 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Then be willing to pay the actual rates of for the service. If people were willing to pay for the services, they'd be offered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,548 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Once upon a time the branches had a person at a switchboard. The clerks at the counter didn't stop to answer the phone. What happenmed to me in the end was the branch manager rang me on his personal mobile. I, as the customer, can't be expected to hang around waiting on someone from a branch to call me back at some random time which is what the current arrangement is. I am going to have to move branch as a rsult of this and would move bank if there was a better level of service available elsewhere.



  • Posts: 3,505 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The branch manager calling you isn't a 'current arrangement'. That was something the manager took upon himself because a customer called telephone banking and then asked to get served by a branch. That's not what telephone banking is.



This discussion has been closed.
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