Smart immersion controller

yak

Hi,

Im looking to install a smart thermostat (timer) switch in my hot press and want it to be WiFi compatible and to work with Alexa and have it’s own app….

thanks,

YaK

Sleeper12

Are you looking to control the hot water cylinder?

Are you talking about the electric immersion? Or are you talking about controlling the hot water heater by the central heating?

Do you have a motorised valve fitted on the heating so the hot water is a separate zone?

yak

It’s the (electric) immersion in the hot water cylinder, it currently heats water independent of the heating system and would like to build on that by adding smart/remote control to it…

would want a timer and ability to enable via apps/smart speakers.

Sleeper12

You are very limited in choice for smart electric immersion timers but the one below should suit

https://www.climote.ie/immersion/

yak

Ya I saw that one and was put off by the price…. Was nearly 400quid and subscription after 12 months IIRC…

I had looked at Optimum OP-BM/IHTWF01 Wi-Fi Enabled Universal Boiler Module, but still confused so looking for recommendations…

Sleeper12

The problem is that you need a 16amp one for an immersion. Most smart timers are 3amp and for central heating

kirk.

You can probably get a spark to fit something at the board with a contactor

I can never see the point of smart controls for an immersion, just me but I reckon a lot of its overkill

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119132235#Comment_119132235

I'm a real gadget freak but I would agree you. Personally I think spending the money splitting the C/H into 3 zones is better value for money. There is a much greater selection of smar controls for C/H

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119132311#Comment_119132311

Im a spark for donkey years and I like my gadgets too

When it comes to the lights and appliances a lot is overkill

Internal pirs for control of a lot of lights is the handiest thing you'll ever do for hallways and toilets and cupboards and exits not all these fancy smart bulbs

yak

Optimum OP-BM/IHTWF01 Wi-Fi Enabled Universal Boiler Module/Immersion Heater Control, 230 V, White https://amzn.eu/d/fpLfF2W

that one is 16amps AFAIK?

I already have multi zone C/H, the immersion (timer/WiFi) switch is to supplement the existing manual switch that’s in place to reduce requirement to burn oil… I have to get a timer switch anyway, so why not get a WiFi one was my thinking!?!?

kirk.

That's probably only a single channel so you'd still have to switch sink/bath if you need them both

You still need a form of isolation such as the immersion switch too, you can't just replace the immersion switch with one of those

yak

Ya was planning to place it inline with the existing dual switch, immersion-existing switch- WiFi switch - mains. Then leave the existing switch in on/sink and use the WiFi switch as an simple on/off switch to allow current to the existing one. Will need to switch between sink/bath manually but will have remote/timed control of the immersion via the new switch…

Wearb

I think you are misreading Kirks post. The safer option is to have the wifi switch at the immersion side of the existing switch. that way you maintain your means of isolation.

kirk.

Ya the controller before the timer same as you'd do when adding an APT timer

If you were using a 2 channel wireless controller you'd wire it DP switch first and then 2 channel controller and remove the immersion switch ,that gives you the isolation and control needed

yak

Thanks for that, looks like putting the the new switch between the old switch and the immersion will require a stretch of new cable, I assume it’s better to use ~20amp cable (>16amp that the fuse in the existing switch is rated for), but does it matter how much bigger the cable is?

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119191354#Comment_119191354

The way It usually works is the supply cable to the switch is protected by the MCB usually a 2.5 as that's standard practice to protect cables

The immersion then is considered a fixed load so the flex is rated to supply the immersion load so probably a 1.5 as it's not going to be overloaded

Anything except the immersion flex would be kept to 2.5

kirk.

Any new switches or controls would be fitted outside the hotpress

You might also have the option of timers and controls at the board if there's no ancillary equipped supplied at the hotpress like a pump which regulations allow

Haven't wired anything except the APTs and the. Economy7 controls, they would be the standards but I'd say the WiFi controls would be done as i described , always open to correction

yak

Is there a reason that the switch should be installed outside the hot press? I was planning to install it beside the current on/off sink/bath switch inside the hot press (between the current switch and the immersion itself)?

kirk.

Ya move everything out sounds like you need a electrician

Immersion heaters are a nasty enough device , problems with the flexes, switching and clothes

inigo

I hope it's ok to hijack this thread.

I also want to change my manual controller with something "smart". It's electricity only, two elements. At the moment I have a Horstmann E7 (not electronic). I plan to have an electrician do the work.

@yak, did you make the change eventually? What smart device did you use and how did you find it?

I'm considering the Optimum OP-BM/IHTWF01 Wi-Fi Enabled Universal Boiler Module/Immersion Heater Control but there are quite a few reviews that mention device failures after few months-2 years.

Another option is this.

I was wondering if I should change the manual controller completely for two smart switches, one for each element, and either isolate them somehow if they are on the same circuit or put them on separate circuits. Or should I have some manual controller/switch in case the smart switch fails?

Any recommendations other than the Optimum or the Xuelili?

EDIT: Or maybe what I need is the electronic version of the Horstmann E7??

kirk.

You need to keep a DP isolator.The E7s have that built-in or fit a new one with the smart control y

Other problem is you can't use just 2 separate controls for a dual immersion you need the changeover as well to prevent 2 heaters coming on together as the dual immersion are not designed for that

Wearb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120183509#Comment_120183509

Yes. Perhaps best option is to control it before the dual switch, but then you'd need a DP isolator nearby. The other option would be to pick whether it's the bath or sink that you'd like to control and put your wifi switch on that leg. Perhaps you'd have to make it obvious that the existing switch is the DP isolator. You'd need to ask an electrician if that would be ok. Perhaps Kirk (above) would know.

kirk.

Simplest is always single pole smart control and a standard dual immersion switch

The same way that electronic devices are not allowed for local isolation

If you wanted smart control of sink and bath you would need some sort of interlock in the controller to prevent the 2 coming on ,smart settings on their own wouldn't suffice

kirk.

There might be something smart off the shelf with interlock for immersion or you can set it up that way

The E7 has double pole isolation and sink boost with interlock all built in

So you can probably set it up to work with smart control of bath which probably isn't much use really though

inigo

Thank you for the replies!

Ideally I would like the whole thing (on/off, sink/bath) on wi-fi, but I would be more than happy if I could control only the boost/sink/top element "smartly".

We don't take baths and only heat the whole tank occasionally to prevent bacterial growth.

@kirk. Pardon my ignorance, with simplest way do you mean this?

MAINS -> SMART SWITCH -> MANUAL SINK/BATH SWITCH -> IMMERSION

kirk.

Probably manual dual immersion switch>> smart switch

Feed sink throu smart control

Bath control is then completely manual

inigo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120185841#Comment_120185841

MAINS -> MANUAL ON/OFF + SINK/BATH SWITCH -> SMART SWITCH -> IMMERSION???

That way with the switch ON and SINK I can leave the power ON all the time and control the SINK with the smart switch? The advantage being if the smart switch fails I still have the bath option? Disadvantage being bath is completely manual?

In my suggestion (smart -> manual) if the smart fails I'm without hot water...

Would others have a preference?

Wearb

I think that if you go down the latter route, you'll need a double pole isolator before the smart switch.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120186054#Comment_120186054

Ya you said u only use bath for legionnaires so off top of my head..

Immersion switch to smart (on the sink leg only)

There's no need for extra isolators the standard immersion switch is the isolator once it's <2m from the heater

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120186272#Comment_120186272

A smart control doesn't need any isolation

The only thing to watch there is if the control itself needs fusing at 3amp or whatever and there's a relay in it for the immersion

Wearb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120186526#Comment_120186526

So there isn't a need for isolation between the smart controller and the mcb/rcbo?

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120186877#Comment_120186877

No

But i suggested immersion switch >> smart control

So that that case there is an isolator between smart and rcbo

But other way round it doesn't matter , smart control doesn't need isolation

inigo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120187003#Comment_120187003

So in that case I presume it would be safe to leave it ON and SINK all the time and turn on/off with the smart control?

coylemj

See this thread on the same topic, I have a smart immersion timer and I've included a photo and description of how it works.

If you're getting a smart device and you have a Sink/Bath switch which does not have a red LED to show it's receiving power, I'd strongly advise that you swap it for one that does have a light. It will be essential if there is a problem because the first thing you will need to check is whether the timer is sending power to the switch.

Start from my post at #7 and see my reply to some follow-up questions at #10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057852343/smart-immersion

inigo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120196998#Comment_120196998

Thank you. Good tip re LED. I've posted on the other thread too. I think things are becoming clearer in my head thanks to all the responses!

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187698#Comment_119187698

I think i forgot the changeover with the controller here

The immersion switch is a simple device but it throws up a few problems with smart control

It controls the heater but there's also the isolation and changeover

inigo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120207728#Comment_120207728

I'm afraid I don't know what you mean. Which problems are you referring to? Would you mind elaborating a bit, please?

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120214967#Comment_120214967

It's an old post I'm talking about not related to your setup

The lips

I am interested in doing the same as the OP, sink/bath switch to keep dual element capability and smart switch controlling the power to that.

What was the resolution of this thread?