What is you opinion of quadracycles and machines like the Citroen Ami?

AMKC

Do you think a person should have to have a full licence to drive a Citroen Ami or an Axiom which a both Quadracycles?

Do you think Ireland is a bit backwards compared to countries like France, Italy and some other where these machines can be driven by teenagers or old people with no license?

I think as long as a person proves they are competent to drive one they should be allowed drive one license or not. There are the perfect little machines for so many people in the Cities and towns all over the Country who do not need to drive far just want to go to the shop or visit some friends or family nearby without getting wet in the winter.

It woukd be a lot better than driving some big dirty diesel a short journey.

wonski

And how you are going to prove you are competent driving one?

There is a system in place called driving test ;)

John_Rambo

I would love one. Perfect for my little business which (I tried) is impossible to run on public transport or a bike.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119123768#Comment_119123768

There is a Cargo version of it too. 400 litres cargo space lol and its only a 1 seater. I too would be very tempted by one but will see how my bike goes first.

I think I would like the Ami better do it just has so much character.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119123745#Comment_119123745

Yes but it's kind of stupid someone doing a full driving test if they are never going to ever drive on a motorway. Some people just want to drive locally or around there town. The Ami is perfect for this.

It's not like its hard

wonski

You can't be serious.

Driving test in Ireland doesn't even involve motorway driving anyway.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119124209#Comment_119124209

Well Driving Leasons do. I done driving leasons way back in 1997 done 10 of them. Bollix if I am doing anymore.

wonski

Ok.

antodeco

It's a shame the Citroen Ami will only be available left hand drive. Assume that'll push the price up from an insurance point of view

Ubbquittious

I always wanted a Piaggio Ape

road_high

Not really suited to Ireland. Dublin perhaps. These are made for darting around Paris or rome. City cars were never big here compared to the continent. Even superminis not as popular

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119124522#Comment_119124522

Not at all. It is that small you are nearly sitting on the other side of the road driving it anyway and it's not like you would be passing anything driving it a bicycle maybe but that's about it.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119124685#Comment_119124685

I disagree.

It would be perfect for short country trips between towns and villages.

magicbastarder

it is kinda funny that there aren't more small two seaters on the roads, especially in cities. you see loads of motorists driving five seater cars, on their own, to work etc.

i know several examples of two person households whose cars have a total carrying capacity of 10, where there would never be more than four or five seats in use at any one time. in most cases, you could easily replace one car with a one or two seater and not really lose any convenience.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119125389#Comment_119125389

Exactly and the streets would be less cloged because there would be more space. They would probably get to work quicker too because of it.

wonski

How the streets would be less clogged if you add those little **** boxes into the mix?

And no, they won't get me to work any quicker than now. They are slower.

You think people will replace their car with this? To drive between towns in Ireland?

I don't even understand what is your point. Please let us drive cars. Stop this nonsense.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119125549#Comment_119125549

This is naive.

Neither Dublin or Cork is large enough to warrant the use of these cars. They would only be useful inside the M50 or the Link.

You're likely on motorways outside of this, or taking a circuitous route to the city centre.

Unless you've a niche application you'd be better on public transport or a bike.

Maybe not a popular opinion, but cycling infrastructure is getting better in both Dub and Cork.

What does an Ami offer than a gen1 Nissan leaf doesn't? It's slower, smaller and more expensive, and let's be honest, takes up just as much space in traffic.

zg3409

https://youtu.be/5stbHteIkts

These would be great here for teenagers. I also think mopeds would be ideal along with legalizing scooters.

Main issue is driving licences, min age 17, min 10 lessons, wait times, insurance 3000 euro plus etc.

Having 17 year olds going to work in full size cars with all the overhead costs is crazy, often they are doing low paid work or living off parents.

Also think of the likes of cleaners, restaurant and hotel staff that need low cost transportation.

I am all for busses, trams and cycling, but for many jobs it's impractical to use them to commute.

If they need something bigger for longer trips then short term hire like gocar could be used.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119131468#Comment_119131468

there are plenty of people whose cars probably never travel further than 5km at a time. and plenty of households where finding parking for one would be much easier - the ami is more than six foot shorter than a focus, for example. for people with driveways, that could be the difference between getting a second car into a driveway, or not.

i used to live in phibsboro and had multiple elderly neighbours who drove small cars and never went much further than the shops or to their friend's houses. these would be a perfectly adequate replacement for them, i'd hazard.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119131693#Comment_119131693

"There are plenty"

Maybe there are, but somehow I doubt the market for a mini-car with a top speed of 45k and a range of 70k is desirable to plenty of people.

I know the price is cheap, but it's basically a fancy golf cart.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119132630#Comment_119132630

No it's nothing like a Golf cart.

It's a brilliantly designed unique little quadracycle.

Yes I think there is a market for it. I do not think it is old people do as it has no power steering or airbags. I will certainly be looking to test drive one if I get the chance.

magicbastarder

45km/h is about three times as fast as rush hour traffic in dublin city, and the vast, vast majority of roads within the M50 have a 50km/h speed limit or lower. so 45km/h is plenty for a little city runabout.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058247724/what-is-you-opinion-of-quadracycles-and-machines-like-the-citroen-ami

Meanwhile in Ireland, you can drive a monster tractor as a 16y/o with a Mickey Mouse W class licence.

There might be a very niche, mostly urban, market for smaller vehicles here as most people look for bigger cars as there's a perception that they're safer, plus the keeping up with the Jones's insecurity people here have.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119133709#Comment_119133709

Meanwhile in Ireland, you can drive a monster tractor as a 16y/o with a Mickey Mouse W class licence.

Yes that really needs to be rethought, revamped and revised. I doubt they ever thought when that originally came in that Tractors would be as big as they are now.

route66

I think they could actually be safer than electric scooters/bicycles/unicycles etc. Has any one else here had a shiver reversing out of their drive just before someone comes wizzing up to them at 25 kmph. On the footpath ...

At least with these, they are big enough to see. As regards the skill required to drive them, if you can drive a bumper car, I guess you can handle one of these. They weigh 485 kilos so shouldn't inflict SUV-type damage in the event of a tip.

Unlike push bikes or electric scooters/bicycles/unicycles, etc, they have full weather protection.

One concern I'd have is battery range if driven flat out (45 kmph) - which surely people will be doing a lot. It has a range of about 60 KMs and probably more like 40 in winter, so short journeys only. But urban only? I was driving on some very rural roads at the weekend - the type with grass up the middle and where the 45 kmph limit would not be a problem - and could it see it working there just as well as it could in 50 kmph city zones. I guess overtaking one may be a bit of a pain, but perhaps no more so than overtaking 2 cyclists 2-abreast.

There is a very fair review of the Ami in Autoexpress:

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/citroen/355597/citroen-ami-long-term-test-review

... where an entire family tried it out; some were impressed, some not ...

If I had €8-10K to spare, I could see it working as a cheap and convenient form of transport for maybe 75% (by activity, not distance) of our family's transport needs.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119135567#Comment_119135567

reversing out of your drive, you heathen

route66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119135595#Comment_119135595

Fair point.

Actually I drive out myself, but herself, well ...

magicbastarder

I think they could actually be safer than electric scooters/bicycles/unicycles etc.

despite my support for them above, this is probably my biggest concern. the availability of them could end up making the roads far worse, because they may not so much tempt people away from 'traditional' cars, so much as tempt people who might cycle/walk etc. into them as an alternative because they're seen as safer. and the roads would get even more congested, possibly.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058247724/what-is-you-opinion-of-quadracycles-and-machines-like-the-citroen-ami

do you want old people and teenagers out on the road?

old people who say can't get a car licence?

Bicycles are pretty safe already

electric bikes etc are feeding the next obesity crisis

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119135651#Comment_119135651

Yes I do.

Bicycles are not safe. They are for the brave but safe no you have very little protection on them from a car never mind a lorry or a bus if one hits you.

crosstownk

I've driven the Ami. It's a very basic machine. Noisy, sparse. While it really is a glorified golf cart, it's perfect for city commutes. But in slow moving traffic most people would prefer the more comfortable cabin of a warm, cosy saloon or SUV with a steaming cup of coffee and an infotainment system. While the Ami might be appealing to some, I've no doubt the Irish tax/vrt/insurance/etc costs will make it only slightly more economical than a second hand BEV. It'll be a novelty item but probably not practical from an Irish ownership perspective.

Personally, I'll stick to the bicycle for my commutes.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119136618#Comment_119136618

i would correct your phrasing there, were i to agree with you; it's not the bicycles which are not safe, it's the motorised traffic.

i.e. in your example, it's the car, or lorry or bus (and its driver) which is the mode of transport which is not safe, if it places other road users in such danger.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119124285#Comment_119124285

dunno about back then but youre not allowed on the motorway full stop as a learner so that isnt really an argument.

and its 'did' not 'done'

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119137341#Comment_119137341

So how does someone learn to drive on a motorway then? No I will not be driving on one anytime soon. That day is long gone. I am OK with that they can be crazy anyway.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119137383#Comment_119137383

its a very strange situation tbh. i have a vague recollection of hearing/reading that the official line was that it was suggested to take further lessons specifically relating to motorway driving after passing the test but i could be mistaken on that one. having said that, theyre not overly different compared to most dual carriageways all the same

Miscreant

Driving lessons most certainly do NOT bring you on the motorway and it would be illegal for them to do so unless it is the instructor driving on it as a demonstration. I did driving lessons in 1995 through to about 1999 (I had a motorcycle so was not pushed to get my B licence, that is why it was spread out) and not once did we venture on to the motorway with me driving. I was told that once I passed my test, if I wanted to get some instruction on the motorway, to call the driving school and I could get some lessons specifically for that.

Anyway, these Ami vehicles may be classed as quadricycles but they should still require a licence to drive on the road. Even 50cc mopeds do and you need to do a test for those so why should the Ami be treated differently? Because it is electric and small? You can get a learner permit/driving licence at 17 anyway. Any younger than this would be madness. I see how some treat electric scooters and bikes, no way should some of them be allowed behind the wheel of anything bigger. Having the requirement of licence, insurance and motor tax would put manners on the drivers as there is much more at stake.

That all being off my chest now, I actually like the Ami for what it is. I do think it should be made capable of at least 60Kph though as you would be eaten alive in Dublin traffic with one. Being limited to 45Kph, these machines will mostly be driven flat out, and there is no way the battery will last 60Kms at that point. I would peg the range at less than 40Kms at full throttle in this scenario. As for using it in a rural setting? You are having a laugh! At that v-max, it would be a hazard on the road, even to cyclists who can regularly exceed 45Kph on straight flat roads.

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119132778#Comment_119132778

I suspect it is like a golf car, however I have driven electric golf carts with towbars with trailers to haul stuff off-road, and it has plenty of power and range. Golf carts are designed to be used all day long on golf courses.

Many elderly get around on those mobility scooters but they are quite slow and you get wet. At speed they are too fast on foothpaths. There is specific exemptions for mobility scooters and this is a road going, non exempt in Ireland fully covered version.

My nephew recently spent 4000 euro on a second hand e-bike, partly due to age and low cost compared to running a car. This thing is basically a motorbike, that is operated by teenager and I believe it conforms to rules of pedalling etc. He will commute to school 10km and travel 10km each way to nearest town. He will get wet, he won't be easily seen, may get knocked down by a car.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119140418#Comment_119140418

I have driven Golf Carts too. Great fun.

Your nephew should wear a flash Jacket and he will be easily seen and safer on the roads.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119138270#Comment_119138270

As for using it in a rural setting? You are having a laugh! At that v-max, it would be a hazard on the road, even to cyclists who can regularly exceed 45Kph on straight flat roads.

No not at all. I would if I could. I doubt many cyclists unless they are professionals or very fit get up to 45km on a peddle bike.

magicbastarder

a fit cyclist could hit 45. sustaining it is another thing entirely, unless you'd a strong tailwind.

rab!dmonkey

Maybe if there were more Amis to break the wind for them, we'd have cyclists cruising at 45 km/h regularly :)

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119147424#Comment_119147424

Exactly 😁

Silverdream

Any of these appear in Ireland yet. I think the French can come up with some great ideas. As a parent I living on a back road a few miles out from town I can see these as very appealing. I'm sick of having to be a Taxi for the teens and young adults. Most of my journeys would be sub 8klm into town or over the road. I suspect many people living in the city suburbs are having the same issue as I do as a lot of places have very poor public transport.

magicbastarder

Any of these appear in Ireland yet.

it doesn't matter if they were in ireland, they'd still be treated like cars and wouldn't fix your issue about having to be a taxi driver.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119488783#Comment_119488783

No infortunately not yet.

It was supposed to be out this Summer here but no sign of it yet. Its not even up on there website yet but it is on the UK website. I even enquired to Citroen Ireland about it and got no reply even do I am interested in buying one.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119488852#Comment_119488852

We will see about that. A trip to the courts will sort that out.

magicbastarder

why the courts? the courts don't set legislation?

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119489043#Comment_119489043

The Government then.

magicbastarder

i don't think i've ever heard any suggestion that the government have considered allowing these in the way they're allowed in france. so i wouldn't hold my breath on it if i were you.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119489100#Comment_119489100

No maybe not but it would be a great way for them to meet the target for electric vehicles they have set for 2030.

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119489785#Comment_119489785

RSA is specifically set up to make it harder for inexperienced people to get behind the wheel. Each year they introduce newer hoops to jump through. In Italy for example mopeds everywhere with young people, here multiple lessons and waiting periods and age limitations and tests.

A lot of younger people here are using currently illegal electric scooters and if/when they are legalised some of them won't be legal as they are basically electric motorbikes disguised as bikes or scooters.

Even the green party are anti car and anti EV cars too. They want everyone to walk or cycle.

AMKC

I see it can only be bought by Citroen online in the UK and then they either deliver it to your door or you collect it from your nearest dealer.

Maybe they could do that here too.

The Citroen UK website is much better than the Irish one too.