2022 DCM Novice Thread

Turkish1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119639354#Comment_119639354

I think deep down I know your probably right and maybe sub 3:40 more appropriate... just need to try drill it into my thick head, as 3:29:59 has a nice look to it 😅

Lambay island

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119639471#Comment_119639471

I agree with Laineyfrecks completely. The calculators for marathon simply dont take everything into account especially for a novice. Its not a bad thing been ambitious. Alot can happen in 26.2 miles. Caution should defo be the approach for the first half at a minimum. If you are still feeling strong, there's a section around rathgar to Milltown where you may naturally increase pace with the terrain. You should have a fair idea at that stage if you can sustain that pace because it is followed by a long drag up clonskeagh. Alot of folk will say at this section is where the marathon actually starts as mind-boggling as that sounds.

AntrimGlens

Week 14 Done - 31 miles for the week

Great to be in the taper and not have the worry about having to find the hours to put in.

Tuesday - 4m easy

Wednesday - 7m @ 8min miles

Friday - 6 miles 1xeasy, 1 x steady, 1 x pmp X2

Sunday - 14 miles easy

Missed doing a run on Saturday due to coaching kids hurling and camogie training, but probably did 5k during it anyway. This was the first session that I missed during the 14 weeks to date, bit annoyed with myself but I don't think it is going to cause any issues this late into the plan anyway. It's more of a mental attitude that I could say to myself that I haven't missed a run.

Went for a 4 mile easy yesterday before a trip to the physio, thankfully I did as was really tender last night and would not have been fit for a run. Physio really worked on the knot in my hamstring and has really freed it up so here's hoping that's the end of it and it won't cause me any issues in the next fortnight. 25 miles to do this week, really starting to look forward to it now. Will start to increase the water intake from today as I drink very little water during the day normally.

Well done all on the DCM half runs.

Laineyfrecks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119636270#Comment_119636270

Well done on your half marathon. I think your target if it's sub 4 hours is a bit ambitious but not totally impossible. I would advise 5:40 paces for the PMP run. The marathon is a beast of a distance to race, it's so unpredictable even for a seasoned runner. I would urge everyone to be cautious for the 1st half then check in with yourself & take it from there. You really don't want the 2nd half to be a disaster & ruin your marathon experience. I ran a negative split for my 1st Dublin marathon & loved it, at the halfway point I knew I felt really good & could kick on a bit. It really is a distance that needs to be respected!

skyblue46

Your target is achievable but ambitious. Your mentors will return to this closer to the race but Dublin is a route where the first half should be run conservatively. If 4 hours is your target and you are appropriately trained I would suggest a 9:15 average pace until half way. Most definitely do not be under the 9:09 that you need for a sub 4. All the difficulty in Dublin is in the first half.

Naked Lepper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119643820#Comment_119643820

I always found the difficulty in the last quarter ;)

AntrimGlens

The Devil makes work for idle feet...

It's not like I haven't got plenty to be doing to keep me busy, but this taper is starting to make me overthink things before London. I'd usually never give a thought to a race and just turn up but I think because this one is a big goal and away from home soil that it's getting into my head.

Of course I had to go back to last years Strava and for previous marathon training just to see how I was comparing. Wish I hadn't bothered. Looked at an 18 mile LSR ran at 7.58min miles for the whole thing and now I'm running LSR's at 9.15min miles. Doubt if I could hold that pace at present, but on the flip side it was running at that pace that caused me to injure my achilles and not make the start line. That run was done with a couple of club mates who went on to run 2.50 and 2.59 so me running LSR's at their pace was realistically only going to result in one outcome.

Went back to strava when I ran my previous marathon in 2018, six months after starting running. In the five months up to marathon day I ran a total of 419 miles, didn't run longer than 17 miles and didn't run for three weeks before the race due to Plantar issues. I finished it in 3.59 (in a heap) so with 605 miles under the belt in this block and two 20+ milers I should have more faith in the process. But there's always those little niggling doubts and demons whilst lying in bed as I'm just about to fall asleep to wreck the head!

Anyway, sorry for the post about nothing but my musings. Got my start wave and start time email etc. so the sh1t is starting to get real!!

Enjoy your running this weekend folks, if nothing else it will keep you out of mischief!!

Lazare

Totally normal and expected to have anxiety during the taper. Taper madness.

I listened to a great podcast during the week on the topic.

The Running Explained Podcast.

S2/ep28 The Taper.

Well worth a listen.

Lambay island

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119654714#Comment_119654714

Agree with that, must have a listen. I like to think I'm fairly chilled, my o/h may disagree 😀 but come taper I become grumpy and irrational. Enjoy the taper as much as you can @AntrimGlens . The hard work is done for you!

Laineyfrecks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119654433#Comment_119654433

As has already been said this is totally normal! We all go through some kind of taper madness🤪 And please don't apologise for a post like this, that's what this forum is for & I would encourage more to engage like this, sometimes just writing it down & having like minded people read it really helps!

I'm actually pretty excited & jealous all at the same time that you are so close to your marathon now. All the hard work is done, now it's almost time for your victory lap😊

SuspectZero

Here's a few posts I made years back which should be relevant to the discussion on novices and targets/pacing etc. Hopefully they should help

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/104842786#Comment_104842786

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/104771538#Comment_104771538

Hopefully the links work, I have no idea how to use this new site😅. You'll need to click the second apparently to see that post

Sammy2012

Another week over! Didn't make my milage this week either due to family life and I ended up running into a friend I hadn't seen in ages today during my long run so I cut my distance short. I was raging as I was flying it and felt great but a friendly face is more important!

So times for this week were

10k Tuesday @5.51 pace

5k Thursday @6.07 pace (my calves were killing me and I had to stop.)

17k Saturday @5.47 pace. I felt great today. Really enjoyed my run. I'm wondering is this normal? I find the runs so tough during the week as I have to do them after work and my head is fried some days. However my sat runs are in the morning and I enjoy the time to myself. I don't feel like I'm rushing from one thing to the next.

Starting to doubt myself now though for the full marathon. But I was trying to plan for the race today while I was running. Positive thinking and all that. Was thinking of something like this, gel at 8 and 16k and then one every 5k from here on in...would that work?

Murph_D

Have you been taking gels in training? Need to start practicing. I try to take one every 30 mins.

Laineyfrecks

WEEK 14

Lots of tired minds and bodies out there this week. This is perfectly normal at this stage of the plans - although obviously if you suspect it may be something more than just general fatigue then do get yourself checked out. We'll all have one or two shocking runs during a block of training. Don't over-analyse these - they happen EVERYONE.

Spend the next couple of weeks making sure that your other plans around DCM are in place:

- Travelling from outside Dublin? Transport/Accommodation sorted? Remember - you will need to collect your number from the Expo on the Fri/Sat.

- Race day kit sorted? Wear it on this weekends long run.

- Throwaway clothes identified?

- Pre-race breakfast and meals the day before sorted? Practice this weekend!

- Race day fueling sorted? Practice on this weekends long run.

- Location of McGrattan's saved to your phone? 😉

Plan|Monday|Tuesday|Wednesday|Thursday|Friday|Saturday|Sunday

HHN1|2-3m easy or rest|3m easy|7m easy|4m easy|rest|14m LSR|cross

Boards|4m easy|rest, cross or 3m rec|8m easy|5m easy|rest,cross or 3m rec|20m LSR|3m rec

Lots of easy miles on both plans this week with a 20m LSR for the Boards crew while the HHN1 followers get to enjoy a bit of step back week. This will be the highest mileage week on the Boards plan. Best of luck with this weeks training😊

Sammy2012

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660920#Comment_119660920

Is this question to me @Murph_D ? If so yes I have. I have been taking them on my long runs. Usually around the 8 and 16k mark. The longest distance ive done so far is 26k and only took 2 on that at 10 and 18k but will have to change it up now that my distances are increasing again.

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663930#Comment_119663930

Yeah sorry, that was for you - should have been more specific. Wasn't sure whether you were proposing that strategy or looking for feedback. To be honest I rarely take more than 2 myself on any long run but you will need to take a good few more on the day so maybe time to start increasing the intake to every 30 mins or so - unless you feel your stomach is very well accustomed to them by now.

Gazzler82

on @Murph_D advice looked at the advanced Hanson. Only an extra easy 10k so will give it a go.

For the week gone by (4 of 9)

Monday

two tops and no shorts packed so lunchtime 8k came evening 11.4K @5:21

Tuesday 8.1k @5:07 (no session as wife CME)

Wedneday

lunch 7.2k @5:16

evening session (had to cut short as bean an ti out with friend heading back to NZ) 4*1600 @6:50km tgt w 400 rec (50/48/47/44) w 2k w/u and c/d. All very inconsistently paced tot 11.8k

thursday 7.8k @5:13

Friday

lunch 5.75 @5:21

evening 14k at MP (+1k v plan) w 2k w/u and c/d 4:22 tgt 4:23 act. Took a 2 month out of date gel for practice I found at the back of the cupboard

2nd run with the Robins (ASICS magic speed 2) after swearing off them after run 1 due to calf/Achilles protest. 1st semi super shoe so will persist

Sat off

Sun 27k at 4:48k. Aimed for 50 and was on tgt after 18k but concentration went a little for a finish.

Current plan is to go with the 3:10 pacer and stick all the way to end hopefully so won’t have to think too much about this in the actual race

total for the week 97.1k (record by about 16k!)

Knee. A tad ouchie

Dublinlad1989

Weekly update

I was a little apprehensive starting this week as it was my first week back after having Covid. The first run on Monday was a little tough on my chest for the first 2km but after that settled into a nice pace and was fine after that and have had no issues since.

Monday - 6km @6.25 per km

Tuesday 12km @6.19 per km

Wednesday 8km @6.19 per km

Thursday and Friday - Rest

Saturday - 20km @6.15 per KM

My last long run a few weeks ago was awful, i felt terrible due to food and lack of prep but after taking the advice of this group i treated this long run as if it was the day of the marathon, the days leading up to it for rest and food were solid and the morning of the run was great. This was by far my most comfortable run i've done in a long time. I didn't have my watch so was using strava on my phone and couldn't track my average pace hence why this was a little faster than it should have but i'll make sure to slow it down this weekend. I think its finally kicked in that slower is better haha

MisterJinx

Very quiet week for me last week with just 2 runs. At least the wedding is over now and a great weekend was had. I made a decision not to push on a try and do a long run as a heavy hangover and long runs are not a great combination, injury wise, as I have learnt from past endeavours..

I'll be back on the plan this week with hopefully no ill effects from very easy week, hopefully I have not lost any momentum which would be my main concern.

Back is a little stiff at this stage but have been to physio and have a recurring appointment every 2 weeks just to keep on top of it and anything else that might crop up.

TheRef

PMP: 5:41 min/km. Following boards plan.

Had to rejig plan slightly as agreed for one final weekend of soccer refereeing.

Mon: 6.5k @ 5:50 min/km

Tue: 10k @ 5:44 min/km

Wed: 22k @ 6:04 min/km (struggled and fell apart - no recovery, no prep meal, too fast - learned a lot)

Thur: rest

Fri: 17k @ 5:36 min/km (felt really good and although went faster than pmp, it felt good. Could have gone longer)

Sat: 3 matches (5k/6.3k/8.3k covered - felt surprisingly good going into it but deliberately held back on effort for what I decided to do Sunday)

Sun: 10k @ 4:54 min/km (on Friday night decided to enter the local town 10k to give it a lash and try beat 50 min, just to see if I could do it). Previous PB was 51:06. Managed to complete this in 49:06. Incredibly happy.

I know mentors would have advised against refereeing and especially the 10k, but I really enjoyed both and no regrets.

This will I will be slowing down as too many fast runs last week. LSR on Saturday will be 6:20-6:25.

masterK

My week

Mon: 10km @ 5:57

Thur: 17.7km @ 5:27

Fri: 5km @ 6:10km

Sat: 26 km @ 5:52km

Sun 5 km @ 5:43

Overall a pretty solid week, I was travelling with work Tuesday and Wednesday so was a bit worried as I'd 2 blocks of 4 days consecutive running including the DC Half, a 17.7km and my Saturday LSR but I actually felt fine after it all.

I'm starting to think about pacing for the big day and goal times, I'd always said I'd love to go sub 4 hours but this was really just picking a nice round number initially, after the training to date I'm reasonably confident (well as much as any novice can be) I can do it. I was thinking to go with the 3:50 pacer for as long as possible and if at some point I couldn't keep up at least I'd have some extra time bagged.

The problem is I'm in wave 3 and the 3:50 pacer is in wave 2, I know officially you can't step up a wave but was wondering on the day itself would anybody notice? Just guessing but I'd also suspect there will be a lot of traffic with people aiming for the 4 hour mark so might be wise to be out ahead of that slightly. Any advice?

Kellygirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666938#Comment_119666938

Your mentors will drill this into everybody but Dublin is not set up for even pacing. The first 7 miles are uphill to Castleknock and you are best off taking those miles handy and conserving energy. There is loads of time to pick up the pace after that and you’ll find you’ll naturally do that in the next few miles as you run back into the park again is all downhill. I’d consider not going with the pacers at all or else starting with the 4 hour pacers and moving ahead when you are up to it. If you play it right Dublin is set up for a negative split and you’ll run the 2nd half faster than the first half.

Lambay island

There isn't much to add to Kellygirl's point here as she has pretty much nailed it. Skyblue46 also mentioned this about the route last week. We will probably touch on it more often as time closes in. Any marathon should involve a cautious opening. That caution should increase when its a city marathon with the volume of runners. With the profile of the Dublin route, its even more essential to not fly off at the start like you just got stung by a bee. Its a route that rewards patience.

Well done again on you half @masterK and it is pointing towards something lower than 4 once all things go well. Having said the above, If you are more comfortable having the 3.50 pacer, potentially there may still be an option on waves. In the past you could email the race office with a recent race time(DCH half in your case) where they in turn allowed you transfer into a different wave based on current ability. I'm not sure if that is still a thing but worth asking.They are very responsive too as recently had to engage with them.

MisterJinx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667216#Comment_119667216

It is a thing and they will do it. Process is exactly as Lambay said

Murph_D

Right but regardless of the course profile, there’s still a big difference between sub-4 and sub-3:50. Which is it?

Charliebull

Sorry late to the party, was great to catch up on posts , some great advice , good to see some old posters from 19 , great thread as always

my training being going reasonably well, up to 19 miles last long run , lot tempo and intervals in this weeks plan, pain in other words

As a matter of interest What sort of pace is required for a 3-30 finish (per mile)

concur with people on pacing, last time in 19, I ran the first half to fast and burned up in second half

need to start on gels, hate them , they make me thirsty but best start I suppose

marathon2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668744#Comment_119668744

8.00 per mile. Run the first seven about 8.10, the next four at about 7.50, then go on feel.

https://findmymarathon.com/pacebandresult.php?race=Dublin%20Marathon

Pace is not a well received running method among some of the locals of late but I found it great during my one an only DCM in 2019

Adiaga 2

Week 13

Tuesday 10km easy 6:11/km

Wednesday 2km wu 14.5km PMP 1.5km cd

Friday 5km easy 6:06/km

Saturday 26km LSR 6:09/km

Week went ok. The PMP was about where I wanted it overall. The LSR felt good too. After doing a 19 and 20 miles a couple of weeks ago, the 16 didn't seem too bad. I did feel a bit stiff on Sunday and wasn't able to fit in the recovery run but I did do around 8km of walking that day and it seemed to help. It's looking like I'll have to to do this weeks LSR on Sunday. If that's the case would I be best to move next weeks LSR to Sunday too?

masterK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668711#Comment_119668711

For me my goal is a sub-4 still, my only thinking was if I could handle the 3:50 pace then great but there's been some good points talking about the difficulty of the first half which I wasn't aware of.

Laineyfrecks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665940#Comment_119665940

Ok it's fine that you have no regrets on the refereeing or the 10k race but if you were determined to do both that week then you really should have slowed things down or adjusted your week. You didn't mention it because you knew what we'd advise.

We are all adults here, myself & the other 2 mentors are only here to offer advice as we have some experience & knowledge(and not for one min saying we know it all because we don't) of what you are trying to achieve in running your 1st marathon. It is TOTALLY up to you if you take this advice or not. You committed to a plan & you will have lots of chances after the marathon to run as many races as you like. I really would hate to see you jeopardise your marathon training by running unnecessary races & running paces that are too fast. My advice as mentioned previously for what's left of the plan is to fully commit to it & slow down.