Getting rid of scrub? Any schemes to leave it?

Donald Trump

I know a fella setting out about 10 acres for grazing. Not great land overall anyway but at one end of it, there are about 2 acres which is just scrub and weeds after being abused about 20 years ago and left. Plenty of furze bushes and loads of small little saplings etc etc.

There is still topsoil there but I'd say it would take a bit of work to get it back to any kind of functional state. I would say maybe one of those mulchers might do a job on cutting the scrub down but I'm not what kind of state you'd realistically get the land back to.

But the question I'd have is whether there might be any schemes going (like that wild bird cover scheme) that would make it worth while to leave it in the state it currently is? Could you run into trouble by leaving it there too long in the sense that you might then be prohibited from clearing it off at a later stage (under current rules I mean). At what stage is a tree a tree?

minerleague

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058246478/getting-rid-of-scrub-any-schemes-to-leave-it

Just any new scheme will probably only pay to establish new areas for wildlife ( pay for invoices on trees, wild bird seed etc ) rather than paying on existing areas. Now i'm not advocating removing scrub now to re-establish later, prob more wildlife in that 2 acres than 50 elsewhere

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119084869#Comment_119084869

Well it would seem that, ironically, it would be more profitable to remove it and then wait for a scheme to come along. Which is a pity but if that is the way they set up things, not too much you can do about it.

It possibly could be brought back into some kind of productivity either. I wouldn't really know. It is just waste ground at the minute. If it were mine, maybe I'd be worried about something coming in that would prevent me from removing it later too!

Jjameson

The wildlife in such places can be incredibly scant . Gorse and briars benefits from a trim to flower and berry and stay low and thick for habitat,(in times past goats were the tool of choice and of course the open fire every morning. Clear it with a clear conscience in my opinion.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119085498#Comment_119085498

I've walked across it once or twice years ago and it was full of birds to be fair. I was just wondering whether there would be an actual reasonable financial incentive to leave it in that condition.

Jjameson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119085515#Comment_119085515

Theres a scheme to photograph such areas on the agfood. Not big money but it’s leading to something I’d say. It’d be a pity to clear it when it’s beneficial.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119085619#Comment_119085619

There's a requirement to have a certain % in scrub and ditches.

I think it's supposed to apply to everyone no matter their farming type.

My advisor was showing it to me on my maps but the % and year it was coming in , floated out the other ear.

Bottom line you'll need them.

Jjameson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119086711#Comment_119086711

In what scheme?

Jb1989

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119086794#Comment_119086794

Yea I wonder, as he'll be penalised money if a certain amount of ground is very scrubby and not livestock grazeing friendly.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119086837#Comment_119086837

At the minute, scrub is excluded from reckonable area as far as I know

If it were my land, I'd be a bit worried about putting it in as scrub in case it was stuck at that forever! Are there any rules on that currently? You can't just remove trees but when does a sapling become a tree?

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119086794#Comment_119086794

It's not a scheme afaik.

It's mandatory coming down the line for every farmer.

Could be in derogation. But the way I took him up was it for every farmer.

If a ditch bounds a neighbour you get half the ditch area. Car road ditch you get the full ditch.

I'm not going to say what % it was because I'm not fully sure.

herdquitter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119086953#Comment_119086953

Could you mean "space for nature" measure in the Eco Scheme?

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058246478/getting-rid-of-scrub-any-schemes-to-leave-it

https://www.gov.ie/en/service/b9742e-agroforestry-grants/

may be an option...

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119086985#Comment_119086985

Could be.

Bass Reeves

Next year you are allowed 20% if your land area as scrub. You can draw ANC and buy BOS units for it. As well it will help you qualify for eco schemes.

I be inclined to let it as is.

Donald Trump

Do you not have to be in a designated area for ANC?

What is BOS?

herdquitter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119098629#Comment_119098629

No, ANC and designated areas aren't related.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119098629#Comment_119098629

It should have been BPS. About 90% of the country is designated for ANC(area if natural constraint)

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119099863#Comment_119099863

I just checked the list+map on the department website and it isn't listed. It's in the other 10%

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119099487#Comment_119099487

Link here

https://www.gov.ie/en/service/13d971-areas-of-natural-constraint-scheme/

herdquitter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119100185#Comment_119100185

Crossed wires here I think, there are specific ANC areas. I took "designated" in your post to mean SAC, SPA etc.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119100413#Comment_119100413

Ok. It's not available in this area anyway so that was as much as I knew about ANC.

Capercaillie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119085498#Comment_119085498

Hbaitat for grasshopper warbler, chiffchaff, willow warbler, blackcap, dunnock, somg thrush, whiethroat, hen harrier.....

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119099863#Comment_119099863

There’s nowhere near 90% of the country in ANC. Down the western half of the country that may be the case, the eastern half of the country I’d say is about 20-30% eligible. As a total over the whole country I’d say somewhere in the 60’s percentage wise is what’s eligible.

In Offaly here, half a mile from the bog and we don’t qualify for ANC. I’ve neighbours that lay out their plots of turf right beside where their stock are summer grazing, because for 6 months of the year you couldn’t walk the land, and they don’t qualify for ANC.

It’s a very poorly laid out scheme in this half of the country. There’s men farming on bog here that don’t get it and have a field or 2 of good land a few miles up the road and they get ANC on the good land.

herdquitter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106470#Comment_119106470

It's in the region of 74% nationally iirc and if that hasn't been changed since.

YellowRattle

Every field wants to be a forest.

looks like it’s on it’s way so why not give a helping hand and plant some pioneer native tree species and some oak.

In a hundred years your name may even be said.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109219#Comment_119109219

In a hundred years your name may even be said.

That stupid bollix Donald. Never mind what he did in the Whitehouse. What was worse was him planting trees in the bottom fields and destroying the feckin' farm.

(I've nothing against trees but I have a neighbour that planted a 3 acre plot of sitka in the middle of long narrow field at the entrance to his farm over 20 years ago. Made a balls of his place.)

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109465#Comment_119109465

In fairness little good rarely comes from planting Sitka... in contrast proper agro forestry of which were are miles behind the continent on has alot of merits

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/forestry-enviro/forestry/at-heart-i-am-a-commercial-farmer-but-agroforestry-ticked-a-lot-of-boxes-for-me-41680570.html?fbclid=IwAR0Yw3IauV-KmC2kysikFRTv3w5rMzDAcFgz-QWSZhKu-rldtURUGMHsV_E

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119110149#Comment_119110149

It wouldn't really have been a whole lot better even with a better tree. It was more the stupid place he put it.

SuperTortoise

Is'nt there a new agri-enviro scheme to be announced this summer? Or am i mixing it up with CAP 2023?

Either way i'd hold off until closer to the new scheme starting, good prices for beef this year would tempt lads to push for more productive ground but that won't last forever, and you may well end up being able to make a few bob from letting it as is when the new scheme /CAP 23 is announced.