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Should gender reassignment surgery be covered by public health funding?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Still stihl waters 3


    They'd be better off putting that money into obesity/drug/drink addiction services



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭sam t smith




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo




  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Still stihl waters 3




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,915 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Moved to CA

    Keep the discussion civil and above all else - stick to the topic in the op



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  • Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭Mr_Jacko


    No wonder why the suicide rate in trans community is through the roof...



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Many people commit suicide after gender surgery .

    It's a not a cure mental health needs to be looked at



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    There's no way to answer this without upsetting someone, but no. It shouldn't. Because it will open the floodgates to what should be covered. No. On one hand we're told be proud of who you are, what you are, and now people want others to pay for them to look differently. It's just... it's not fair. I'm no wordsmith, so I rarely can covey my message across properly. I'm not against anything, or anyone, people can be who or what they want, I genuinely don't care. But I shouldn't have to pay for it (that's what us tax payers say isn't it, I pay for it? That's what people used to shout at me when I was a Garda).

    Give all the mental support available (which, by the way, is terrible no matter what you identify as), but physical changes shouldn't be someone elses problem. Harsh, maybe, but fact. If this kind of surgery should be paid for by the state, then I want a cock extension paid for by the state. It would make me feel whole. And a black one preferably. The two-tone would be shocking.

    (I wonder how many -ist's or -ic's I'll be called)



  • Registered Users Posts: 918 ✭✭✭Burt Renaults


    There's no way to answer this without upsetting someone

    There are actually lots of ways of answering it without upsetting someone, but that only applies if you don't want to upset anyone. I'd start by not comparing it with getting a black penis extension. Actually, on a less facetious note, I'd start by admitting that I don't know enough about the issue to express a fully-formed or worthwhile opinion, especially on a group of people with such high levels of suicidality.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Or, you know, I'm giving an opinion. On an opinion board. No need to get all high and mighty. And crazy comparisons of yore are realities of today, so excuse me if I'm trying to be ahead of the curve. How is it any different (colour jest aside)? If someone has a bad experience with someone who mocked the small size of their manhood which led to them feeling demasculated, depressed, etc, and a penis extension would make them feel whole, why is that any different to someone who feels they need a different body to feel whole?

    And that's my point, where does it end. It ends by not starting imo. This great utopia of everything getting paid for by someone else won't and can't exist. In order for someone to get the help they need for free, someone else has to do without or pay for it. It creates further division. As I said, give all the mental health support required, which is also non-existent, but it's non-existent for most who don't pay. If I had empathy, I would probably feel it for people who feel they are born in the wrong body, but it's too broad to properly implement. I had my own body issues growing up. Free surgery to make me feel better could have easily been pushed on me when I was younger. I think not having the option was far better, because I've eventually learned to not care. And that's better than changing who you are. That's just my opinion though, based on my own life experiences. I'm not saying they're worse than anyone elses, but no one has the right to say my are any less.

    For the record, I don't want one, no point extending something that won't be used.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,403 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    I think someone misread the op.



  • Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭Mr_Jacko


    Sad to see transphobia being so widespread in Ireland.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,695 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    No. But it still will be as this is a topic that the political parties can score political points with the progressives on twitter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,628 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Em, my personal beliefs on this aren't relevant. As a nation we all pay for things that don't directly effect us. Like why do I contribute to flood defenses on the Shannon? So to me that's a non argument. As someone who has suffered from the monsters in my own head I can empathize with the feeling of being trapped in the wrong body. I cannot imagine what that must be like. I didn't know post op suicide rates were so high, although I knew it was high in the trans community generally. Those that argue against the metal health suggestions, why is it necessarily the body that is wrong? For example a man that want's to transition into a woman, maybe some TRT would be a better solution? Apologies, I don't mean to offend, my question comes from a lack of knowledge.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,261 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭DarkJager21


    Was wondering how long it would take till someone dropped "transphobia" in the thread 🙄

    The word is essentially meaningless at this point because people like you drop it at the first opportunity if you don't see others nod along 100% with the approved ideology.

    On topic, absolutely not. There are far more important things that should be publicly funded first like IVF.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,739 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    Meanwhile on the vasectomy thread here, someone wondering how to shave themselves for the privately paid only operation, as the surgery involved only told him to come prepared.

    Different strokes for different folks.

    I don't think the public should pay for this. The health service is operating as if it's this beacon of first world healthcare, when in fact it's caused a huge public debt, is in crisis mode all the time, and Irish trained doctors and nurses (at huge public expense) are forced to emigrate due to pay, conditions, and brutal housing situation here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,006 ✭✭✭timmyntc




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    You seem to have mistakenly quoted me, because you haven’t dealt in any way with what I asked.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,261 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Didn't see where it was relevant to the discussion. Still don't. In answer to your question, it would depend on how badly the body had decomposed I'd imagine, but I'm not a forensics expert.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Let’s say zero decomposition. A perfectly fresh John/Jane Doe wearing no clothing. No ID, nothing. What “science”, your word, can we use to determine gender??



  • Registered Users Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    putting money into child mental health services would make more sense



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,937 ✭✭✭DoctorEdgeWild


    I wouldn't agree that IVF should necessarily be publicly funded. Although I can see how disappointing it would be for someone to not be able to conceive naturally, I would consider other life/quality of life threatening things to be 'higher up the priority list' given that funds are a limited resource. In an ideal world, with unlimited resources, I would like to see IVF covered, but not in this real world.

    Although I just realised this thread is about gender reassignment so I may have posted off topic, apologies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,240 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    I'd like to see universal free healthcare and an efficient system that is so good that private healthcare is made redundant.

    Utopia is where nobody has to decide between their health/mental health and going broke.



  • Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭Mr_Jacko


    Meaningless you say? you're probably one of the folks spouting their is only two genders and bullying people online just because they identify as a different sexuality. Also being trans is not an ideology there have literally been transgender people since the beginning of civilization I assume you're 100% in support of same-sex marriage? Maybe one day you will support transgender rights too...

    "In an earlier FRA study, published in 2014, Ireland recorded the second highest rate of hate-motivated violence against transgender people in Europe: In the 12 months prior to the survey, 13% of trans respondents in Ireland reported having been physically or sexually assaulted or threatened with violence, in attacks either wholly or partly motivated by transphobia, compared to the EU average of 8%."

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/attacks-on-lgbtqi-people-prompt-call-for-robust-hate-crime-laws-1.4852053



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus




  • Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭Mr_Jacko



    Very fitting since today is International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Cosmetic surgery is where a person chooses to have an operation, or invasive medical procedure, to change their physical appearance for cosmetic rather than medical reasons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭DarkJager21


    Lot of assumptions you make there. As far as I'm concerned there are only 2 genders and you don't get to swap between them cos "feelings" - that's my belief and it's not going to be changed by you or anyone else, ever.

    I don't particularly care if you "feel" like a woman or a two spirit unicorn pansexual, it's just pandering nonsense. You can be and do whatever you want to yourself, but under no circumstances should gender reassignment surgery be funded by the public purse - it's a non critical vanity procedure people can pay for themselves like any other plastic surgery.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭Mr_Jacko


    And where is it defined that gender reassignment surgery is a "cosmetic" surgery could you please provide a source to back up such statements?



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