Whos fault is it

newhouse87

Got distressed mirror put in, electrician came out to loosen sockets so mirror could go over them, he then had to tighten sockets, was warned 3 times from mirror man not to tighten much, he tightened 1 socket to much and 700euro mirror now cracked. Electrician said he was just doing me a favors and wont take any blame, a favour yet i was paying him to come out.

2011

I think you know who is to blame.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119057723#Comment_119057723

Who should cover cost of mirror? I essentially told electrician i wont ask him to pay but i dont want a bill for his time to come out and do job, he also put up light and put in hob, about 3 hours he was there and i dont want a bill i told him but he wasnt keen on that.

MakersMark

The person who broke it should pay.

Who else?

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119058020#Comment_119058020

Yeah thats what i was thinking, but not a hope of getting it.

Andrea B.

A tough one.

It should have been agreed (due to known fragility and what is a fairly non-standard job), not to do the sockets, unless willing to carry cost of damage.

Other option to instruct sparks to finger tighten sockets and let mirror installer tighten.

the_pen_turner

surely there must be shared blame . the glass installer should have made it solid behind the cuts to suport the glass from flexing. the spark should have left them off or lose

newhouse87

spark was warned 3 times in my presence by mirror man not to tighten much. Where it cracked socket is v tight.

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119105701#Comment_119105701

As per my post above I think you know who is to blame.

You seem to have made your mind up on this.

newhouse87

i just paid for it, spark wont be getting rave reviews fiom me though.

Squatman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106099#Comment_119106099

thats what his insurance is for. give them a call. scandalous that he broke a mirror worht the price of a car1

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106161#Comment_119106161

says his insurance wouldnt cover it, he never checked though. He just told me that immediately after i told him it was broke.

the_pen_turner

the more im thinking abut this the more i move the blame to the glass installer . the glass wasnt intalled in a way that supported properly for the load that would be aplied at that point. it would have broken there eventually from normal use of the socket or if something pushed the socket faceplate .

the spark was stupid to tighten the screws though . he should have got the glass guy to do it

Effects

The sparks shouldn't have tightened it that much. So he shouldn't really have charged you for the job at the least. Chalk that job down to a loss.

When you say he was doing you a favour, is he a mate of yours?

Squatman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119131617#Comment_119131617

and you believed him? any chance youd spot me 10 grand? i will definitely pay it back. Im good for it!

the_pen_turner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119137163#Comment_119137163

nor sure what your trying to say

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119132831#Comment_119132831

no not a mate, dunno what he meant by saying he was doing me a favour, he hasn't came looking for money yet for that days work.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119131617#Comment_119131617

one socket he over tightened where the crack started, the rest were hand movable, if he didn't tighten that 1 so much it would have been grand.

the_pen_turner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119137803#Comment_119137803

for now . or at least untill he left.

if the glazer made it solid behind the glass it would a lot less likely to crack

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119141247#Comment_119141247

6 sockets, he over tightened 1, thats where the crack started, obvious he tightened it too much, anyway, mirror back int today and glazer put it in. 100% spark messed up, anyway still owe him money, hes gonna have job getting it.

macvin

Home insurance may cover it.

Why could the mirror person not tighten it?

the_pen_turner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119141661#Comment_119141661

yes the spark broke it but if it was installed better then it wouldnt have broke.

Squatman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119141948#Comment_119141948

not sure what you're trying to say. seems you are in agreement that the spark is at fault?

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119141948#Comment_119141948

it was installed exactly the way same today, only 1 way it can be installed, its glued to a wall behind the sink and sockets then have to be tightened after we took them off to install mirror. I take it your a spark as cant see any reasoning behind what your saying. It only broke at the exact socket that was over tightened so that shows it was installed fine everywhere, just spark messed up and over tightened, you sound like my spark.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119141680#Comment_119141680

mirror fella wanted spark to loosen sockets for safety reasons originally but we just idid it without spark today, shut of all power in the house.

barry181091

Forget claiming from his insurance, that's his job. Footing a 700 euro mistake is crazy in my opinion. Why would you imply to the electrician that he doesn't have to pay?

Unless you are inclined to think he has completed over 700 worth of labor/materials in your house, not paying him isn't going to help you much. As long as both contractors are registered and work is invoiced along with receipts then I would go down the small claims route if communication fails. It is a simple process and costs only 25.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119142459#Comment_119142459

ah im not the type to claim like that, prob owe him 500-700quid tbh.

the_pen_turner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119142350#Comment_119142350

if someone hung a picture on a wall i a really delicate way and someone brushed off it and it fell and broke whos more in the wrong , the person who tipped it or the person who created the sitation where it could be knock off with a little tip.

leaveing the glass unsupported in an obviously very weak position is createing a potential for breakage . the spark is wrong for overtightening but the glazer created the problem

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119142480#Comment_119142480

sorry your logic makes no sense, the person who tips off the picture is at fault, doesn't matter what way its hanging, if nobody tips off it it doesn't fall. The mirror for the second time was installed fine, it has supports on that back, hence it only cracked at the actual socket that was over tightened, all the other sockets were looser, 3 times the glazer told him not to over tighten.

Bruthal.

Why was it that the glazer thought he needed to say it 3 times? Because it was so fragile that nothing can put pressure on it, or because the electrician looked like he was going to use an impact gun or something? Sounds like the socket needed to be left too loose rather than not over tightened. Plugging things in might have cracked it eventually. Whose fault then, the person plugging the item in?

Electrician should have asked glazer to set the screw torque to delicate glass install setting himself once he mentioned overtightening.

irelandrover

How do you show that the electrician overtightened that one socket?

Clareman

So the mirror guy was paid to install the mirror, the sparks was paid to losen and tighten sockets. For me the mirror guy should have done the whole job, he clearly was the expert. Why didn't they organise a sparky or do it? Clearly an expensive mistake but ultimately the sparks did their job to what they deemed the correct level, if the mirror couldn't take it it could be argued that there was a flaw in the mirror,the sparks will argue that they followed guidelines for installing sockets and instructions of "don't tighten too much" we're useless as he had to tighten to the correct level.

Unfortunately I see this of a case of noone taking responsibility and it'll all come back on the homeowner.

Clareman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119144154#Comment_119144154

I'd guess because the glazer knew that there was a major risk of cracking

JL spark

I’d say you have lose connections now after your glass man took them off and put back on ,

newhouse87

i know he over tightened 1 socket as all the others were slightly movable with some hand pressure, where it cracked, it couldn't budge using my hand. Obviously there is a risk of a mirror cracking if too much of any force applied hence why the glazer said it 3 times to not over tighten. There was no tighten to correct level as only 1 was bet onto the glass, so either 1 was tightened to correct level and 5 weren't or 1 was over tightened and 5 to correct level, either way spark caused the crack, spark is owed money and hes not getting it so havent lost out much. No loose connections, all working fine today.

kirk.

Mirror man could have said to spark just engage screws in lugs and I'll tighten them for you

Saying don't overtighten leaves a bit of wriggle room for the spark in the dispute.If he did tighten them down after being told not to though he's an idiot

Who pays .Tradesman probably gives a discount if it's a straight fukkup. If this turns out to be a grey area dispute payment falls back on others

Bottom line from the sparks viewpoint the mirror man could have taken responsibility for the tightening procedure himself so is partly to blame

cruizer101

Have you a picture of the setup. I'm a bit confused trying to picture it in my head.

Is it a mirror with multiple holes cut out, behind each is a backbox, and the socket faceplate is then screwed on with the faceplate back flush against the mirror, how is the mirror attached to the wall? is the mirror just a sheet of glass mounted to wall or is there a solid backing/mounting on it of any sort?

newhouse87

solid backing on mirror, we had to screw off faceplates of sockets and fit mirror over them, then screw faceplates back on, spark screwed them too flush, where it broke, when we removed the socket faceplate to put on new mirror a bit of mirror was buried into the back of it, Mirror man presumed spark wouldn't tighten as much as he has worked with loads sparks before and once warned they dont over tighten he said, it was jiust the1 he over tightened. Mirror is stuck to wall using mirror mastic.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119152504#Comment_119152504

Yeah if he offered me half the money i would have been happy.

blackbox

If the other sockets were slightly moveable by hand pressure, then they weren't tightened properly.

If this is what the mirror required, either it was defective or not installed properly.

If an electrician left my sockets loose enough to move I would think he was not complying with regulations.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156669#Comment_119156669

most sockets move slightly with hand pressure, depending on of course how strong a person is. He had the socket buried onto the mirror, also the screws he used were bit short and we got longer ones and it fit perfect then. I think the fact that some mirror was bet into the back of the socket shows it was over tightened because with the other 5 sockets this did not happen.

newhouse87

Just doing bit of reading, spark should have used glass switch plates instead, surely the spark should have heard of these and not expect me to think of this.

cruizer101

If the mirror person is selling a mirror that has holes cut out for sockets they should be specifying what sockets can be used with it, if not actually directly supplying them.

A standard socket against the glass seems wrong I would have thought maybe a rubber washer/o-ring would be required betwee socket and glass.

Electrician may have overtightened but they can't leave a socket so it is moveable, a socket should no be moveable by hand force when installed correctly.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119157523#Comment_119157523

So should spark not have said something to me about sockets so, some people are completely absolving the sparks idiocy from the situation, sockets all on fine now and are movable with a good bit of hand pressure, put it this way a kid couldn't budge them. For the umpteenth time, the spark had 5 sitting perfect, it cracked at 1 socket, he over tightened one.

2011

Thread closed at the OP's request