Dad gets 6 year old to run 26.2

The Black Oil

This is insanity, surely. Or dumb and selfish. I recently ran Cincinnati, but then switched off and am only home yesterday and hadn't seen this at all. At first I saw a vague statement on Facebook which generated some 900+ comments and hadn't a clue what was going on.

https://abc30.com/6-year-old-runs-marathon-flying-pig-rainier-crawford-boy/11823149/

The official statement he finished outside of the cut off time and it was allowed as the family had previously done it unofficially. https://flyingpigmarathon.com/an-open-letter-from-iris-simpson-bush%EF%BF%BC/

ReeReeG

I had seen it and thought it was the same race you had run alright! It's utter madness, and even more baffling is how the organisers allowed it. The parents are digging their heels into the ground defending themselves it seems. Idiots.

robinph

I think most of the claims around the marathon doing some lifelong physical damage to the kid are rubbish and without any evidence, just variations on the "running is bad for your knees" nonsense.

The problem here is forcing the kid to do something they don't want to do, which potentially puts them off being physically active later in life and does then create problems. Also the making a media circus out of the kid by the parents.

seamus

The two parents were raised by Christian fundamentalists and although they've separated themselves from that church, they're still very much in the evangelism space. These people don't understand the concept of choice for children; you do what your parents tell you to do, because that's the godly way. And that's all the children know.

It's not the first insanity this pair have gotten themselves embroiled in.

It's incredibly dangerous. Not only from the obvious joint and bone damage that could be done, but children's bodies don't do endurance like adults do. The same severity of signals don't get sent, and children don't fully understand how to interpret them. They will literally keep going no matter what if they think that's what they're supposed to do.

There was a grandmother in the US recently imprisoned for murder after making her granddaughter run for at least 3 hours as punishment. The child collapsed and died. Where an adult would obviously just stop and refuse to keep going, a child is capable of pushing themselves to much more dangerous levels when they don't understand they have a choice.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119049959#Comment_119049959

The obvious joint and bone damage isn't obvious at all, and there isn't anything I've ever seen to show it happens, other than people repeatedly saying that it must happen. There's nothing to show that kids running longer distances, when not forced to, is doing them future bone and joint harm.

The risks around forcing the kid to do stuff they don't want to, and going past the point where they are capable or in a position to refuse, or know that they should refuse, at that time is real though, like with the example of the grandmother.

Kat1170

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119050146#Comment_119050146

So you think more kids should be forced to do endurance events in order to have an database to prove either way if it's safe or not. And before you jump down my throat, how would you go about proving wether it's safe or not other than forcing kids to be lab rats.

Erring on the side of caution would be the correct decision IMVHO.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119050192#Comment_119050192

Nope, I think people shouldn't claim that kids are damaged by running long distances when there is no evidence to support that claim.

No need to force kids to do stuff though and there is now actually going to be useful data source on this kind of thing from parkrun. They have 18 years worth of running data, and just having a quick look at event 100 in Bushy in 2006 (because there were more people running it by then) and of the identifiable children in the junior categories at the time, including a couple in J10, only one of them seemed to have not subsequently run in more recent years up to pre pandemic at least. They would be a fantastic source of data to actually do a study on and find out what they were doing back in the day, find the kids who haven't run more recently and see why, see if the kids who are still running are impacted in anyway. Even if one of those J10's in 2006 was only 4 at the time (can't tell that from the public parkrun data) they would now be in their 20's and no reason why they couldn't be approached, and their parents, to find out what they did back in the day etc.

Kat1170

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119050271#Comment_119050271

Until that takes place, there's no evidence to prove it doesn't either.

Just playing devils advocate, I've absolutely no skin in the game.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119050558#Comment_119050558

Other than there aren't examples of individuals who ran long distances as a kid and subsequently have joint/ bone issues being presented. This isn't the first kid to run/ walk a long way.

Kat1170

Ah yeah, I remember all the other kids that have ran marathons without any bother now 🙄🙄

As I said, I've no skin in the game, you obviously have and won't hear anything other than your own narrative. Bye bye.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119050681#Comment_119050681

It's not about proving that it's possible for kids to run marathons and suffer no consequences, I did as did multiple hundreds of other kids at my school and other local schools over the years back in the '80's. It's about if there are any actual negative consequences, and nobody has anything to show that there is any damage done despite people claiming that it is a fact.

Should a 6 year old do a marathon? Not overly bothered about that really, for me it would be about if the kid is being forced to do something they have no interest or desire to do and if the parent is exploiting them which is the issue in this instance. Throwing around claims of lifelong injuries being caused and that running is somehow a dangerous thing to do is my problem.

I'm sure nobody would be getting angry about some kids doing a sponsored 8 hour long game of football, or skipping, or probably even if the kid had hiked up and down a mountain with their family that happened to take 8hrs. But somehow the activity of walking/ running for 8hrs whilst wearing a race number is seen as a hyper risky thing for kids to do. It does no good perpetuating those ideas in getting people to lead active lifestyles, if they think that walking/ running is bad for you somehow.

The Black Oil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119049895#Comment_119049895

I don't think anyone knows the long term impact. However, this case aside, there are reasonable concerns around what's developmentally appropriate or not. If people specialise early in sport that is a risk factor for eating disorders. Garmin had a podcast a while ago where 8-9 year olds were going to sports psychologist, Dr Andrew Jacobs, owing to burn out because of organised leagues at 4-5 ('absurd', his opinion) and sport no longer being fun. We do not need to build that sort of culture.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119051160#Comment_119051160

Yep, that is the area where I'd see the dangers for the future of the kids. Keeping the activities fun and not taking the competition too serious. It's about creating healthy habits and an interest in being active in whatever form that takes.

Although I think we do have an idea on the long term impact of sports on kids as there are plenty of professional sports people who were playing tennis, football or whatever from a very young age and those would have involved the kids playing for hours on end in the streets doing repetitive exercises with their bats and balls. Whilst those that reach to top of their games obviously picked up professional coaches from some point whilst still kids, there will have been thousands of other kids doing exactly the same as them at the same ages who just didn't get noticed or picked up.

We don't hear of those who didn't quite make it as having been permanently damaged from kicking a football against a wall for hours on end as a kid. Why is running the sport that is considered dangerous for kids to take part in?

Overly serious or competitive sport for young kids I think is going to create problems for later in life. Kids just being active in whatever they enjoy, not so much.

Mywifetoldme

I walked a marathon in school for charity when I was 11. It was in London.

It was in 1968. Different times

Cabaal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119051421#Comment_119051421

All of the above,

Talking to a 11 year old few weeks back and he had been playing a tennis match for 3hours!

One thing about the marathon, the kid wasn't running in a competition. If they finished past the cut off it was also likely 6, 7 or 8hours which is hardly super fast. Should they kid do it regularly...likely not.

I find the level of outrage and claims of long term effects a bit crazy, there's far worse things people do to their kids like feeding them McDonalds and smoking around them. There's far more proven long term effects to those things.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119051458#Comment_119051458

Big difference between an 11 year old and a 6 year old

Having a 6 year old do anything continuously for 8 and a half hours is cruel. Never mind having them running/walking. The father should be jailed

walshb

Parents are reckless and dangerous idiots. As well as pretentious attention seekers. World is full of these types people.

Pawwed Rig

It is not the first time this has happened

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budhia_Singh

I have heard many times over the years that distance running is bad for kids but have yet to see convincing evidence that this is true. Mostly is seems to be based on feelings and underestimating what kids are capable of.

I don't think I would encourage my child to do a marathon but if he/she was determined to do it I like to think I would support them.

Also they averaged what? 3 miles an hour? Less than 5km/hrs. Hardly that stressing on a childs body.

If the parents were coercing him then that is another issue but it is not clear from the article that this was the case

walshb

Just because young children can “do” this doesn’t mean they should be doing it.

Coerced or not. 6 year olds would like to do heaps of stuff, coerced or not. They have no grasp of the realities of the stuff.

Allowing a 6 year old to do/attempt 26.2 miles travelling forward (running/walking/crawling/whatever) over 8 hours is just an absurd thought process

it’s all to do with parents looking for attention. Wanting to be noticed.

demfad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119050681#Comment_119050681

Kids run/have run long distances daily in places like Kenya. Some of them have subsequently run world records in the marathon.

A coach of no less stature than Arthur Lydiard stated that children could run 100 miles/pw safely.

There is no proof that running one marathon might affect a child permanently. If that's your 'narrative' then back it up.

Edit: I agree that kids can push themselves harder than adults and there is danger there

I remember getting the train to Galway as a 6 year old child with my 15 year old brother.

My mother just had a baby and my dad was working so they let myself and my brother

go down alone to our relations in Leiter Mor.

My brother was supposed to give me a crossbar from the train station but he had problems with the bike.

We walked from about two miles into the journey from Galway train station to Leitir Mor which was about

28 miles altogether.

I don't remember feeling too bad, just a bit home sick.

We wern't racing along but it was a continuous journey.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119054588#Comment_119054588

What time did you get to Galway and were you out walking the roads for about 16 hours is it

monkeybutter

Did the brother push the bike 50k?

Did a relative you wonder why you were about 10 hours late

And did no one in your dream not take pity on the decrepid teen and 6 year old to offer a lift

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119054872#Comment_119054872

I only remember bits of it, my brother pushed the bike and we crashed in a field for a while and he put some of his clothes on me to keep warm.

It did take us the entire day and evening to get there. I remember it was very dark and we had the torch from the bike on.

We did meet a Garda along the way but he didn't offer us a lift or anything. He just quizzed us a bit about where we were going.

There was no mobile phones then but a few days into the trip, my mother came down with the baby.

I dont even remember anyone in Leitir Mor having a home phone.

My mothers aunt was still drawing water from the lake beside her home for the dinner etc.

The main road was more like a Boreen than a main road which probably explains why my brother ended up having trouble with the bike.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119054960#Comment_119054960

Was this a dream?

What year was this? It might explain it more

Terrible parents and family either way

A crosser for 50k

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119054977#Comment_119054977

You're not wrong 😁

I cant imagine any parent letting their 6 year old go off like that with a 15 year old these days for sure.

It was a different era.

And no it wasnt a dream, it was the 80s.

Enduro

There's a fierce bang of Karen Switzer being attacked at the Boston marathon off some of the commentary around this. Running a marathon is too dangerous, and people need to be stopped from doing it for their own health and safety. Who needs evidence for anything as obvious as that!

Pherekydes

You're comparing a 6 year-old child with an adult woman, who ran the marathon of her own free will. The child was under the stated age limit for entry (18), and finished outside the time limit.

shesty

The child was crying, wanted to sit down every 3 minutes and struggled physically.

The Dad basically bribed him to keep going.

I have a 6 year old.No way in hell would she run for 8 hours.No way would I push her to do that.45 mins swimming lesson in a pool, she is tired for the day. 1hour 15 min GAA practice, she is tired.And she is a fit, active child.

Serious questions need to be asked of that parent, never mind the risks from dehydration, nausea, the rest.Why on earth did he think that was a good idea?Following a child's lead if they are interested is one thing but sure they haven't a clue what marathon is.You can't follow their lead when they don't know, you are making their decision for them.

Cabaal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119058287#Comment_119058287

It doesn't matter if it was her own free will, the thinking at the time is she could seriously hurt or even kill herself from doing so.

It wasn't based in reality or evidence but it was the thinking. Much like the outrage here.

For those saying its a run, if you do a 26mile distance in 8hours you are doing a 18.27min/mile pace. Thats a fast'ish walk.

People get outraged about all sorts of things with children, with little or no evidence.

I regularly bring little cabaal out in a running buggy, he's done a few 13mile runs and not a bother with him. But do I get comments about it and about how he could get hurt etc? Do I ever!

I also have a cycle trailer he goes out in, he loves it. But again I often get comments about that too.

robinph

There isn't any risk from dehydration in a city marathon, or even just running around the course in a city after its packed up and most people have gone home already. Far more risk of drinking too much because people are bombarded with messages about dehydration, which doesn't happen.

Of course I'm not saying that getting a kid to do a marathon is good parenting, just that it's not actually dangerous to them... Other than they will potentially grow up to hate exercise and then become unhealthy due to poor lifestyle years later. That family sound like a bunch of idiots, but not that they are physically damaging their kids.

Cabaal

One way of looking at this is, whats more likely to have long term ill health effects

• One slow city marathon
• Years of playing video games, spending time on mobile devices, hours each day on social media and generally being sedentary

The second is the norm for millions and millions of kids and teenagers, but if you are outraged by the first but you aren't with the second you have your priority's all wrong

py

The 20 minutes duration of bribing/motivating/cajoling around junior parkrun can be torturous at times. 8 hours? God bless their persistence.

Personally I don't think there's a mental/physical benefit for the kid having completed it.

rom

8 hrs is walking. My 7 year old has walked 10 miles without complaining. It's rare we go that far but over COVID we started low but worked up to at least walking 4 miles a day. I actually miss is at we would just spend the whole time chatting with her and her older sister. They knew exactly where they were. Some days it might be hot and they would say cut it short etc and it was all on them. The only want to go for walks with me now as they get to chat and we chat about anything they want and I answer honestly within reason (age appropriate). Both my kids are super fit. Did a 10k hike with my kids including my 7 year old (O'Sullivans Casasde) in Killarney national park. Super hilly for them and my wife did it with her friends a few weekends before. One lady at 40 struggled. In junior infants I did a 10 mile charity walk. It is not an every day thing.

The people who get pissed off about this is the ones the think that X miles is too far for a child as X miles is way too far for them. Now to play devils advocate to all this I don't think doing an organised event like this is right. It is too goal focused. Any time I walked far with my kids it was along a bus route where when they felt tired they could say lets get the bus as it was pre arranged that we were getting the bus and it was up to them where they wanted to get the but from.

We live in a society where people who walk 3.1 miles in operation transformation have somehow archived something notable. Though it may be great for them it normalizes inactivity.

I am 100% against any formal pushing of children of a young age. The story of kilian jornet where his parents used to go on big hikes with him made him love it all. Having kids going to an adult event like this is complete BS as the child will have huge pressure on them selves. I have no issue with the distance but the format on how it is done as there is an exception that they must complete it which is not needed at this age.

Singer

I agree with everybody here. The kid is unlikely to have suffered physical damage, and the parents are idiots. The poor kid bonked, which is very unenjoyable. Kids don't particularly need this type of activity, sport and activities should be fun.

seamus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119050146#Comment_119050146

We know that repetitive activities and motions can cause uneven or irregular development in children's bones as they grow.

Now, a single marathon is not a big deal. The concern here would be how much of this they're engaging in. Are they bringing the kids out for a 5k every day in preparation? A child being active 8 hours a day is not frowned upon. If they were out with their mates running around, playing football, riding bikes, etc all day, people would give it a big thumbs up.

Indeed, varied activity promotes better bone density as children grow and should be encouraged. Football is a varied activity with starts and stops and turns. Marathon/track running or road cycling is more repetitive, and I would certainly be concerned about the implications of having a young child do it regularly (a few days a week). When you buy a car seat you're warned never to leave an infant in it for more than 90 minutes at a time as it can lead to issues with spine and lung development (or at least that's the concern). Which seems like a crazy declaration to make; how much damage can you really do in 90 minutes? But if it's 3 hours a day, every day, for six months, the impact is measurable.

So a six-year-old doesn't develop that fast, but they still develop crazy fast. Enough that an hour every day running non-stop in a forward direction, could in a year lead to an imbalance in bone growth in their legs. Which at 18 might make them a world class athlete, but by 35 could leave them in a wheelchair.

robinph

Humans are better designed for forward motion than for random movements around chasing a ball. Not suggesting multiple hours daily of running for kids, but seriously doubt that chasing a ball about suddenly makes exercise for kids safer than them going on a hike or run at whatever pace they choose.

The problem with this instance is the parent "forcing" the kid to do something. But letting the kid head out to run laps around a park until they get bored is no more dangerous to their development than them chasing a ball around the center of the park. But the lack of a ball makes the activity of movement seem risky to people for no good reason.

demfad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119069026#Comment_119069026

I was going to make a point here: Running on a flat man-made service like tarmac or concrete is repetitive and concentrates work to specific movements in a very repetitive way. Running on natural surfaces or at least more uneven surfaces removes this danger.

Cabaal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119069535#Comment_119069535

Would agree the likes of trail is certainly more fun and interesting, though far more challenging and higher chance of injury.

On the subject of hikes, locally there's a 4mile mountain climb, very steep in places.

Few years back I went up it with nieces and nephews, I'm fit but still I was breathing heavy going up the climb. Everyone of them found it easy as hell and also made the decent much faster then me, beating me by a good 5min.

People like to underestimate kids abilitys I think.

demfad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071000#Comment_119071000

I think rough trail has a bigger chance of acute injury (sprain, break, tear) for those not used to it. Surfaces like grass or non tarmaced road are uneven but have a minimal chance of acute injury and a greatly reduced chance of chronic injury as you're not repeating the exact same movement every stride and other muscles are being used to support the running muscles.

Since I was in Kenya I have wondered if the accepted reason that Kenyan's can tolerate more training: <big volume of aerobic running since childhood> shouldn't be changed to <big volume of off-road aerobic running since childhood>.

I remember getting dragged to see the pope from Finglas at this age and it was hell.

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119407462#Comment_119407462

There was a pope from Finglas? 😉