Early 30s wanting to join the civil service - good idea if I want to get married & have kids?

cannotpostanonymously

Hi!

Very strange question but basically I've been wanting this for a few years now and currently I'm a regular associate in a high street retail company and while it is good at the moment, I cannot see myself there for life and it is definitely not compatible with my goals as I'm on flexi time and work all odd hours including weekends.

I'm looking at TCO/CO positions and while the pay seems low, it's in or around the same as my current retail job and it goes up in increments. I've been with my current partner for 6 years now and she's on a permanent contract in (private) healthcare, so we have a double income.

So we're ready to start trying for a child and though no time is ever perfect, a stable 9-5 job is definitely something I want so I have work/life balance for family reasons. I grew up in a very unstable household and that is definitely NOT what I want.

Am I making a stupid move looking at the civil service?

(Also mods, wasn't sure whether this should go into Personal Issues or here, but if it's wrong I'll repost, apologies!)

Everlong1

Came into Civil Service at clerical level myself, now at middle management and doing nicely thank you. Steady secure income and plenty of promotion opportunities if you're any way ambitious.

cannotpostanonymously

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119047212#Comment_119047212

That's what I love to hear.

Instead of me being a team leader in work which is ultimately unsatisfying. I feel like once I hit my stride in the civil service, our lives will be much more stable and I can ensure our family is happy, healthy and comfortable.

redmgar

Moved into the civil service a couple of years ago, progression is slow but can be down if you put in the work.

You wont get rich but it will pay the bills, I started first as a CO and the first pay slip was shocking at how low it was.

Very good for work/life balance and job security.

cannotpostanonymously

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119047286#Comment_119047286

Yeah, definitely understand about the pay being bad at the start. Looking at the pay-scales and wincing a bit, but I definitely am not afraid to put in work and progression is definitely something I want so I won't always be stuck around 25k a year. Similar wages right now in retail so I'm used to it but it isn't the best.

Thanks redmgar!

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119047306#Comment_119047306

And what the actual work itself? You will spend a very large part of your life working, is it something you would enjoy?

cannotpostanonymously

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119047844#Comment_119047844

I would think so. I'm friends with someone who started in the passport office as a TCO and has moved up through the ranks, and from what she tells me it can become quite interesting work after the initial CO stuff. I'm not afraid of work really.

xeresod

Sounds ideal for you; plenty of family friendly practices like flexi time (currently suspended in most places though while WFH / WFO is sorted), shorter working weeks, unpaid leave in blocks ranging from 2-13 weeks (very popular for parents over school holidays). You can undertake third level education on your own time which will be paid for as long as it's relevent-ish, i.e. a business degree rather than chef training!

Lots are saying about progression, but you said you didn't like being a team leader so just stay at CO level, it won't be held against you - plenty of people are happy to stay at that level their entire career, no stress or pressure, and happily retire a CO.

martingriff

I would say that while there is at most 2 yearly promotion opportunities be very careful as it is just may be very annoying how some may get on a panel and other do not. The process is to get on a panel for promotion not get the job outright which stay for 2 years and if lucky top 20 might get in but normally not inn the top 10 to 15 you be waiting. Benefits are good though

i. don't forget to find out what the take home is after all deductions. it can be a shock.

ii. opportunity to develop with formal training/interesting work depends heavily on your placement, if you place (competition is fierce)

definitely go for it, but have your eyes open to the above

Don't limit yourself to applying for just CO, apply for an EO competition if one comes up. Not much more stressful then CO at all!

While in general family friendly policies are very good, it can also be dependant on which department you end up in. Some are a lot more family friendly than others. But you will have the right to apply.

Flexi time is not currently suspended - it's still in operation, we just can't currently work above our target hours to get extra days off through flexi leave.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119048135#Comment_119048135

You forgot the return to 6.57 hour day in July 😁

Started off as a tco 5 years ago in the council and got Co in the Cs then.

I was earning 30e more than social welfare for a family of 4 at the time.

Money is improving and I'm moving to my 4th department soon in a town 7km from my home. I'll be able to cycle in instead of driving.

TuamJ

Are you in Dublin?

Sounds like a decent move versus staying in retail but it's not your only option either. Progression is the CS is much easier in Dublin versus outside of Dublin. if you want to work hard and hustle you'd end up in Dublin most likely so something to consider if you're not there already. Progression is possible but isn't that easy or guaranteed because of the sheer number of highly educated, hungry people who enter now. Most new COs have at least a BA.

Some departments have lots of opportunities, some have little and some have opportunities to make money and progress that are not family-friendly. Lads in revenue tend to go on the road in debt collection, into customs, into shift work. At the moment the money might look good versus your current salary but throw in 2 kids and childcare or a partner who goes part-time and that money will fly out the door.

But I would get out of retail asap. Far too unstable for a family man. I would in your shoes apply for the next CS comp but in the meantime, I'd be looking at the likes of Springboard courses to see if any appeal. If you can study an in-demand skill you'll likely be on better money out the gate (possibly able to work from home depending on what you do) and you will future-proof yourself by having a skill versus being a generalist.

divillybit

@TuamJ just wondering which departments would you think have better opportunities than others? The reason I ask is I've done an EO interview in the last few days, but not sure I'd take a role if I got offered it as I wouldn't like to be placed in a dead end department...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119105920#Comment_119105920

Not quite the question you asked, but what I would like to add is that people rarely stay in the same department for the whole of their career.

Even if the dept you are initially assigned to is not one of the best, you can apply for mobility (kicks in after probation) and also continue applying for other competitions.

Its quite likely we are heading into a financial downturn, so unless you are already in secure employment, I would think twice about turning EO down, even if you dont initially get one of the more progressive depts.

redmgar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119105920#Comment_119105920

The bigger the department, the more chance of progression. Finance is very top heavy, so I would imagine that is a good one to get into. Obviously  social welfare will be a good one for progression as well.

I will say that the CS is a lottery depending on were you are placed, in some places a CO will do more than an EO would do in another department.

Rowley Birkin QC

I'm curious if anyone here has switched from an established role in the private sector into the public sector?

I have a degree in a field that's traditionally employed in the public sector, qualified at a time when the hiring freeze was in place. I've gone in a different direction, established myself in a well paying private sector role but still have a hankering to work at my qualified profession. I briefly looked into a role last year but the only entry point was as a graduate on about 1/5 of my remuneration now which isn't sustainable.

Are there any options or programmes designed to recruit people from private sector with relevant skills and experience at a more palatable salary?

I'm guessing no but just curious!

Quitelife

Have a couple of Ex colleagues who left job in private sector and went into public sector. Their main differences were

The pace of work in the Public Sector is considerably easier/slower than private sector. Nobody gets excited about deadlines or queues , way less stress

Bordering on zero performance management in public sector , impossible get sacked, unless you rob or strike a colleague

Guaranteed excellent pension regardless of your performance/ability .

So easy get flexible working and various other family friendly working hours unlike private sector.

If you just want to go in and do a days work without been overly ambitious you cant beat the Irish Public Sector seemed to be the message !

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119177577#Comment_119177577

You will see senior roles, AP, or PO or A/Sec level being publicly advertised from time to time, some in government departments, some in agencies or regulators. No idea what your speciality is, but do keep an eye out at relevant agencies and publicjobs.ie. You will be starting at the bottom of the relevant scale, with no negotiation.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119177599#Comment_119177599

Your ex colleagues need to study their pension arrangements a bit harder. If they are post 2013 entrants, their pension entitlements will be very modest. Performance management is variable, but would certainly not be true to say it is non-existent in my experience. Same for deadlines - budget deadlines don't move, legislative deadlines (imposed without any consideration of operational realities) don't move. If you're in a high profile area with journos and opposition tracking every move, there is lots and lots of pressure.

Quitelife

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119177717#Comment_119177717

From my understanding of it they only have to contribute 5% of their salary and they get 1/60th of a pension for each year they work which is far superior to what any of them got in private sector .

One of them works as admin in a hospital and was pulled up for getting through work too quickly and showing up his colleagues. The other works in a garda station as admin also where she could go a day without doing anything and nobody would notice or care.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119177740#Comment_119177740

Like I said, they need to study their pension a bit more. They're not the terms of the Single Pension Scheme. Here's a good starting point;

https://singlepensionscheme.gov.ie/for-members/scheme-information/ataglance/

I've been hearing that oul urban myth about being told they were working too fast since the 1980s. It wasn't true then and it's not true now.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119177778#Comment_119177778

So what automation have those doing clerical work brought in? I assume there is some of them coding in Python even VBA for Excel to help speed things along?

Liberty_Bear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119177577#Comment_119177577

This is entirely dependent on the skills that you have. Public and Civil Service tend to have two streams - general management or skilled jobs. An AP for example is the first step in senior management might be required to have a background in IT to head up an IT Department, if it is say an operations role and generalist then it might not require anything but a degree in anything. In advance of jumping ship go on Linked In and find people in similar roles who might be able to advise you as the culture varies from Department to Department and even internally in those departments can be very different. If you want to move up the ranks quickly , if you have skills in people management and do exceptionally well then you might be able to climb the ladder every two years. Im middle management myself . Good luck and let me know if you have any questions

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119202932#Comment_119202932

It’s a little bit beyond that now.

https://www.ops.gov.ie/actions/innovating-for-our-future/innovation/robotic-process-automation/

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119204304#Comment_119204304

Thanks for proving my point. Only in the past couple of years were there any attempt to automate. What took them so long?

Why did they need to spend even more money in hiring outside contractors? Are the staff undergoing up skilling in other to take over the running of the framework from Deloitte?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119204816#Comment_119204816

You’re hilarious.

jaykay2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058245427/early-30s-wanting-to-join-the-civil-service-good-idea-if-i-want-to-get-married-have-kids

Yeah, the starting salary is very poor but gets slowly better with time and experience. Keep in mind though, as someone mentioned above, the take home is even less than a similar salary in your current job as you will be contributing towards a pension too. Worth it of course but something to keep in mind.

There have finally been promotion opportunities again over the last few years which has been a great opportunity for people who were in a while, to move up and hopefully that can be maintained. I came in not long before the moratorium across recruitment and promotion so it was a hard time to be a CO.

Couple of promotions later and life is very different. Way more responsibility of course but gets manageable once you get used to the expectations and tasks.

As other posters have said, you will never be rich, but you won't starve either and makes getting a mortgage a lot easier than in some other jobs.

Sounds like a good move for you anyway and wish you the best. Don't worry about where you are based either as mobility, if not promotions, will give you a chance to try other departments or sections within a department.

runawaybishop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119204816#Comment_119204816

This is incorrect, automation of workflows has been standard for years. RPA sits between direct manipulation of data and process changes to internal software. RPA is less favourable than both other options, but has some advantages.

You hire in training and service provision on new products because they are new and you do not have the skill locally. This is standard across every industry.

Internal staff are upskilling in RPA.

bobbysands81

You will pay far far more than that for your pension.

Avenger2020

I’m currently a civil servant. I would advise against joining the CS. I wish I had up to date references to be able to get out. Bullying is commonplace and you could end up stuck in a dead-end department.

bobbysands81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119334075#Comment_119334075

Get some support a chara.

www.cseas.per.gov.ie is a great first step.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119334075#Comment_119334075

It all depends on what department you are in. Saying bullying is commonplace isn't true across the board. If you are stuck in a dead-end department, apply for other roles. Upskill.

It's not as bad as you are making out.

delboy85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108021#Comment_119108021

I agree with this 100%. It's total pot luck as to where you end up working. I've been in the Civil Service for over 20 years and have worked in quite a few different Departments/sections. Most of them have been absolutely fine but the work load varies wildly from Department/section to Department/section. On the whole I think the Civil Service is a great place to work and I would thoroughly recommend it. Yes, the starting salary for clerical officers is poor but it does improve and there are plenty of opportunities for promotion.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119177740#Comment_119177740

"stretch the work out".....

Avenger2020

My manager has applied a ‘Unsatisfactory performance’ and refuses to let me move. Works me like a dog, monitoring me and standing over me. I’m ready to go to the media about abusive management in the CS. If there are other similar stories out there please contact me privately.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119357242#Comment_119357242

Did you engage in a formal grievance procedure or is the media your first port of call?

Nobody in the Civil/Public service has to put up with bullying. There are procedures in place.

Have you made a complaint to the Union about this?

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119177740#Comment_119177740

Pension contribution is 6.5% of salary plus 10% of wages above 34k.

IBPhoto

Go for it. I was 25 years in the civil service. Opened up lots of opportunities and importantly the CS is generally very supportive of ongoing education particularly if linked to the requirements of the job/Dept. That will open up opportunities.

There will be a few misfits around - be wary of following their advice.