Temporary insurance on commercial for aid run to Ukraine - Irish companies useless

theguzman

I spent alot of the day dealing with Insurance companies and the sooner the better that the whole lot of them are closed down as I never dealt with such a shower of arrogant lowlifes in my life, how do the hell do people do business or even get on the ladder to start out with how they carryon.

I have been unable to get insurance on a van me and another person wants to buy to do our own privately funded aid run to the Poland-Ukraine border, drive to polish border and hand over vehicle to other Ukrainian volunteers who will continue on the journey.

Just trying to get insurance for one week and no-one will touch me, full no claims bonus, no penalty points all earned on a private car policy. Never driven a commercial van like before but found a cheap older van with CVRT and Tax, the van won't be returning and it is is on a one-way mission and we are getting it donated actually. They would not even offer me a full year commercial policy.

A polish guy has advised us that we may be able to get polish insurance for bring it into Poland, since we are not entering Ukraine ourselves.

maestroamado

Why dont you just go online and insure for the year... i think you get rebate for unused time with small penalty... you be travelling in EU so you be fine...

mikeecho

Contact one of the organisations running aid missions to the Ukrainian, and see if they can offer any advice.

Cork penny dinners are running vans with supplies to the polish border/ Ukraine.

Drop them a line or give them a call.

Hopefully they can might give some info on how they operate.

Cork Penny Dinners

4, Little Hanover Street, Cork

Tel:

021 4275604

Email: 

mail@corkpennydinners.ie

Hope that helps

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119041899#Comment_119041899

+1

theguzman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119041921#Comment_119041921

They told me that my no claims experience is zero since I earned it on a private car and not a commercial vehicle. If I suddenly decided to become an electrician etc I'd find myself in the same predicament since I've never had a commercial policy.

HazeDoll

Tax it as a private vehicle and insure it privately.

myclist

Transfer your car insurance on to it temporarily.

vandriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119042364#Comment_119042364

You can't.

Sleeper12

Take out a year's cover but pay monthly. Cancel after the month.

I've never heard of an insurance policy sold for one week. I'd be surprised if it existed

Sleeper12

Another option is to buy a private rather than commercial van. This way you can transfer your policy over.

I don’t know if you must have commercial insurance for what you are doing or will private cover you

waterwelly

It is what it is, exceptions can't be made for every good cause / sob story.

If somebody has to bring a cancer patient to Dublin they just pay the tolls and parking like everybody else.

HazeDoll

OP, can you tell us if you have tried to insure it as a private vehicle? Some might tell you this isn't possible but I have had vans for years, always taxed and insured as private vehicles.

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119047884#Comment_119047884

The van op has is registered as a commercial vehicle. It needs to be insured as a commercial vehicle. It is possible to change the registration to private vehicle but its time consuming & op doesn't have time. There is also the question of is private insurance enough for what op is planning to do. Commercial insurance might be a requirement in fact most likely is a requirement. Private insurance says carriage of your own goods. Op will carrying goods that isn't his.

HazeDoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119047942#Comment_119047942

It's not time consuming. It's very quick. You go into the motor tax office and tell them you have a new van and you'd like to tax it privately please.* You fill in a form, hand over the cash and it's done. I have always done it on the day I bought a new van and never had any delay.

You're allowed to carry other people's property in your car, aren't you? Similarly, you can carry anything you like in a commercial vehicle that has been taxed and insured privately. You can't do it for profit or as part of a business, but the OP isn't running a business.

Because of the nature of the proposed cargo you might face questions at the border because it might look like you're importing goods but that's nothing to do with you car insurance.

*Edit - when I say 'new' I mean 'new to me.' All my vans have been second hand, taxed commercially until I bought them.

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119048193#Comment_119048193

Nope. You have to send the log book of to Shannon or someplace to have the van registered as private. You are confusing taxing the van with getting it registered as private. Two totally different things.

No you are not covered on a private policy to carry "other" goods. Read your policy. It will state "own goods". It's all well and good carrying you neighbours shopping in your private van but a van crammed with goods for other people in another country is a whole different kettle of fish.

HazeDoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119048222#Comment_119048222

Doesn't matter what you have to send to Shannon. You're legal, on the road, insured and good to go on day one. Which is all the OP wants.

I just checked. My policy (with Alliance) says exactly what every other policy I have ever had says. I'm not covered to carry goods or people 'for hire or reward.'

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119048702#Comment_119048702

https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/hire-or-reward

More Definitions of hire or reward

hire or reward means the carriage of goods other than on own account. Charity goods aren't the goods of the OP.

https://www.ladbrook.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Ladbrook-Guide-Charities-using-Vehicles.pdf

12/1/2016

Ladbrook Insurance, County House, Waterside Business Park, Dinnington,

Sheffield S25 3QA

01909 565858

www.ladbrook.co.uk 5

o Insurance checks – If a driver is using their own vehicle, written

confirmation that they have the correct insurance in place is important for

your records.

tabby aspreme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058245259/temporary-insurance-on-commercial-for-aid-run-to-ukraine-irish-companies-useless

OP what is the process for handing over the van, regarding registration documents, log book etc

macvin

so you are going to spend a couple of grand on fuel, have a few bits in a rickety old van on its last legs and travel into the unknown in roads you haven't driven in a van that has little value and you have no experience of driving a van.

And you think you should be able to get a few days insurance?

Insurers are probably thinking this is a nutcase. An absolute no win for them. Miniscule premium and a MASSIVE risk

And whilst there is a need in the east of the country, Ukraine is actually doing OK now as the war is centred on the East and many people esp from Kviv and the western areas are returning home and supplies are getting through from normal sources in Poland and Germany.

Whilst you probably would like to do something active, it will not achieve anything of note. it will be far better to make the donation of the costs to the red cross.

HazeDoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119048795#Comment_119048795

What you're maintaining is that you can only have your own property in your car. If that's what your maintaining you better get busy letting everybody know that they aren't covered by their insurance if they give somebody a lift or collect somebody's shopping.

Who, technically and legally and by the letter of the almighty insurance policy, will own the supplies the OP is planning to deliver to the Ukraine?

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119048913#Comment_119048913

No. That's not what I'm saying at all. Collecting someone's shopping isn't the same as bringing a van load of donated goods to another country. In the UK there is special van insurance for charity use. We don't seem to have specific charity van insurance in Ireland but it would most likely not fit into private insurance. This leaves commercial. It's possible that he may need haulage insurance as this is what he is doing. Haulage is bringing goods to one destination.

At the very least op needs to contact an insurance company & tell them what he is planning to do. They will tell him what insurance he requires

I do agree with other posters that this sort of thing is best left to the full time charities. They do it by the container load at a fraction of the price. There are Facebook groups where companies have space in containers and they offer it free of charge. In other words its possible to get the goods brought over without op leaving the country at all. This will save hundreds or thousands on insurance, tax, fuel, hotels food and flights home

Mech1

Go talk to your local car hire company, donate the van to them, hire it from them and buy their insurance. Might work if you pick the right company but its only a idea!

Deja Boo

Might try Lloyds of London.... but it'll cost you.

toyotatommy

DHL the goods op, the token is appreciated but I’d say half way across the m4 your honeymoon would be over.

Eggs For Dinner

You're looking to insure an old van for low money, for which you've no experience, in unfamiliar countries. It's not going to happen. It is extremely difficult and expensive for insurers to handle a claim overseas. Assessing damage, interviewing witnesses, examining the scene and appointing local legal representation etc.

Whocare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058245259/temporary-insurance-on-commercial-for-aid-run-to-ukraine-irish-companies-useless

Will you ever wake up all that way with van 🤣 you get close to nothing in it .there plenty of transport companies doing run put whatever you have collected in with there stuff but we all know you don't wantto do that as your own going for buzz of it. There only one other option I can see if you was friendly with transport companie you might be able to use there insurance as there insurance policy cover any vehicle under there controller

Detritus70

I have "insured" a van that I bought in Ireland and drove to Germany as I was moving back there.

Had I bought and insured the van in Germany, I would have had it insured within half an hour. And I mean with email confirmation to take to the local authority and have plates made up on the spot and ready to drive that day. In Ireland I was given the runaround, no private insurance will insure a commercial vehicle, no commercial insurance will insure a commercial vehicle for private use. I asked an Irish friend who drives a high-ace as a surf mobil how he got his insured, his answer was "I lied through my teeth" Funny how neither the private nor the commercial insurers could tell me to register it as a private vehicle, the private insurers just told me "we do not insure vans for private use nor is there any way to do that".

In the end I told them a story that was 9 stories tall with great big clanging bells on it so I could get a paper disc to display in my window so I could make it out of Ireland. I was a small time, odd-job tradesman with no officially registered business that carried absolutely no goods in the van (absolute no-no according to several insurers) but a small collection of my own tools. This story evolved over several iterations until it finally clicked. It felt like picking a lock.

I see this story pop up every few weeks on Boards. And that for years and years. Irish insurers do NOT want private citizens to drive vans and they have thrown up obstacles that make it all but impossible to do through honest means. Take from this story what you will...

HazeDoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119051396#Comment_119051396

I keep hearing this and I can only keep repeating that I have a commercial vehicle, registered, taxed and insured as a private vehicle. I am 100% legal. I didn't tell any lies to do it, it's very straightforward.

I suspect your friend wanted to keep the vehicle's commercial status because it works out cheaper, and that's why he lied. He must have pretended to run a commercial enterprise of some sort, lied about VAT numbers etc.

*Edited to add; my insurance is with Alliance.

And also to add that vans are brilliant and everybody either needs a van of their own or a close friend who has one.

Detritus70

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119051713#Comment_119051713

I do believe you, I'm just sharing my experiences. One would have thought that at least one of the dozens of people I rang could have given my this hint, I was just told "now how, no way"

HazeDoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119051727#Comment_119051727

I think there is longstanding confusion about

(a) whether one can get commercial insurance for a commercial vehicle if you're not operating a business

and

(b) whether just anybody can own, tax, insure and legally drive a commercial vehicle as their private vehicle.

The answer to the first is 'no' and the answer to the second is 'yes.'

I'm on a one-woman mission to clear up this confusion because vans are, as I previously mentioned, brilliant.