Newb question: claiming damage repairs from other car's insurance?

mrcheez

Got doored by another car today, and owner admitted he was at fault and I took photos of the damage plus his insurance discs etc. Plus got his mobile and name.

Never had to make a claim before so I assumed I would just ring up their insurance. I did that but they said I needed to initiate the process with my own insurance first? Is that right?

What are the steps in the process in general?

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058244988/newb-question-claiming-damage-repairs-from-other-cars-insurance

They are right.

You are a customer of your insurance company.

They will deal with your claim.

wonski

Of course not true.

You claim against the other insurance company.

The only reason you would go through your own is when the other driver disputes or denies liability.

Start a claim with the other driver insurance company and let your own insurer know of it.

The poster above has no clue. Don't listen to it.

elperello

This might help-

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/insurance/insurance/types-of-insurance/vehicle-insurance/vehicle-insurance-making-a-claim-if-you-re-in-an-accident/#:~:text=To%20make%20a%20claim%2C%20get,witness%20statements%20if%20you%20can.

wonski

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119033635#Comment_119033635

Seems like you don't understand.

You contact the company of the driver who damaged your car. You make a claim, they take your statement and contact the other driver to confirm and see if he accept the liability.

Alternatively you can claim against your own policy meaning you lose your NCB until the other driver accepts the liability and the insurer pays back your own company.

There is no need to claim against your own policy at all in the above scenario. Make a claim against them and wait.

mrcheez

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119033752#Comment_119033752

ok.. so what do I do when the company in question is stating I need to go through my own insurance first?

Or do they need the other driver to start the claim process and if he doesn't start it, that's when I go through my insurance?

As an update, I got a text from the other driver today suggesting that he would like one or two quotes and send them to him, rather than going through the insurance. Which sounds reasonable, but I'm worried that if he delays things I might lose the window to start the insurance claim if it doesn't work out (he doesn't agree to pay etc) ?

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119035707#Comment_119035707

Get your insurance involved now. The correct way is for the other company to deal with it but if they aren't then get yours involved.

Don't bother getting quotes for the other person. They'll come back with a friend who can do it for €20. Just start the claim now with your own company and don't forget your hire car.

mrcheez

Is there any harm in testing the waters with getting it done outside of insurance? Surely I can just pop over to a nearby place and get a quote and he can say "Yes" ?

If he disputes it or delays, then I get the insurance involved?

Dial Hard

For minor damage, I would always give the other party the option to pay it out of pocket. Get a few quotes and give them to him. If he starts playing silly buggers, just tell him actually you're grand and initiate the insurance claim.

wonski

Still inform your insurance company of the incident.

Not sure why the other insurer insists of you going through your own insurer.

If the other driver all of a sudden refuse the liability you will be in a lot of bother.

Regardless of that insurance claims and repair process are a disaster as I found recently so don't expect things to move quickly.

mrcheez

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119036495#Comment_119036495

From what I gather this is how it goes...

• The other driver apparently has to initiate the claim process with his insurance (that's what they told me)
• If he doesn't, I'm not allowed to contact them to open the claim instead (again what they told me)
• Instead I need to contact my insurance to get them to contact HIS insurance

So, not knowing any of this, I naturally assumed I could just ring up his insurance after the incident, but their first question was "has he initiated the claim?"

So, as it stands, I cannot create a new claim by contacting his insurance. He has to do it.

wonski

I recently made a claim against another driver without any issues.

Their investigator visited me pretty quickly to take photos and take a statement.

Would be hard to expect the other driver to initiate the claim as she was probably still drunk and injured after hitting three cars in a row ;)

Took them 4 weeks to admit liability so I decided in the meantime to go through my own to speed things up.

Unfortunately speed is the last word I could use talking about it, car damaged in February and only booked for repair last week.

Repairs also didn't go as planned as one part is late. Disaster.

Tell them you want to claim against their driver and that you don't want to use your comprehensive cover for the damage you didn't cause.

User1998

Probably quicker and less hassle to get a couple of quotes and not involve insurance. I’d get a couple of quotes first and see if the other person will just give you the cash amount.

Everyone makes mistakes, the claim will be with them for years to come if going through insurance.

wonski

Since it's just a door dent/scratch I would give the other driver an option to pay based on quotes.

Insurance is a lot of hassle and a lot of wasted time.

And as the poster above mentioned no need to ruin someone's NCB over little damage like that.

mrcheez

That's my thinking, though I might just give my insurance a call too to ensure they don't have a "time limit" or similar to initiate the claim after the incident (just in case I do need to go back through the insurance route)

Spook_ie

You "should" notify your own insurance of the accident anyway. One of the questions normally asked on renewals is to notify them of any accidents in previous ( 5 years I think ) if liable or not.

seagull

Decide where you want to get it repaired, and get a quote there. Don't bother about getting quotes from multiple places. He can then decide whether to pay that, or it can go through insurance.

mrcheez

I ended up getting 2 quotes as the first seemed very high.. 2nd was bit more reasonable and what I was expecting.

Have sent them on and the other party has accepted and will get back to me.

My main concern, if he does accept to go with one of the quotes, is how the payment process will work. I asked about this and he said that he would first like to see evidence of the repair done (assuming via a video call or similar), and will then pay. But he could just as easily ignore my call when I go around to pick up the car, leaving me there with the garage bill.

I'd suggested that once a quote was agreed upon, he could wire me the money in advance, but his response was that the money would only be transferred after the repairs were done.

Maybe a cheque made out to the garage might be another idea? That way there's no way I could cash the cheque myself.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119091815#Comment_119091815

This is why you pay insurance. Just out it through them. Life's too short for his messing about.

wonski

Do not repair before being paid.

If the other party wants to go outside the insurance then just pay you cash.

You then can arrange repair (also remember initial quote from garage can change).

wonski

Also it is none of his business if and when you repair the car.

He agreed the quote so should pay you. End of story.

mrcheez

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119091953#Comment_119091953

yeah fair enough.. will see what they say when they get back and will ask for money up front again.

If no dice then I'll go insurance route. Would prefer the former route as it'll be faster so insurance is the backup plan.

mrcheez

Sent on an ultimatum there specifying that I'll need cash upfront if we are going the non-insurance route as he requested, and if not suitable I'll continue on with the insurance (I already opened a case with my insurance and said I'll let them know if I want to continue)

CiniO

OP

First of all, information that your got from his insurance company is not correct. You definitely are allowed to claim directly from them, as they are the ones covering third party liability for him. They might be telling you otherwise, but that's not correct. Imagine, what if he damaged something that wasn't insured by it's own policy (bicycle, your fence, etc). Where would you claim then from?

Secondly, if he is willing to pay out of his pocket to make things simple, then just tell him how much you want for the repair and he should decide if he is paying you that amount or not.

It's completely none of his business where you got the quote, how you got the quote, that's if you got the quote at all. Also completely none of his business if you'll use that money to repair your car or not. He made a damage, he offered to pay out of his pocket, so you just tell him the amount you're looking for, and he decides if he pays it or not. If not, then you claim from his insurance company.

It's pretty much as simple as that.

bazz26

Whatever you do, do not pay for the repair up front yourself because your almost guaranteed then to be chasing him for the money that he may not want to pay.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119092162#Comment_119092162

Give him no more than until next Monday. This has gone in too long already.

Eggs For Dinner

Trying to settle privately rarely ends well. Give him 24 hours or contact his insurer to start the claim process and yours to notify the accident

Do not repair the vehicle before insurers can assess the damage

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119092431#Comment_119092431

Years back, insurance companies would pay the repair quote, less the VAT, if you weren’t proceeding with the repair, which is perfectly valid. If you’re coming up to trade in time, you’re better off letting them see the actual damage, and factoring the cost of in- house repair into the deal, rather than them seeing signs of a recent repair and fearing that there was serious damage.

mrcheez

Thing is I checked with my insurance if there was an expiry date by which I needed to get the claim going and I have up to two years so there's no issue regarding how long this takes to get started. I already lodged the start of the claim and told them I'd let them know if I want to proceed (for which I have up to two years).

I'm busy right now and can't leave the car in yet so June is when I'd be getting this sorted anyway and by then it will be clear if the other party is serious or not.

So yep next week I'll make a decision either way and probably will be able to decide after the response I get to the ultimatum email I sent.

And for the record, I don't contact their insurance, I contact my own insurance and THEY contact the other party's insurance (that's what both their and my insurance said)

And yes obviously not a single cent of my own money will be spent on this...nor will I be put in a position of owing without having received funds first. I.e. not even making the booking until the funds are sent

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119093587#Comment_119093587

If you go through your own insurance, you put your No Claims Bonus at risk. It is a No CLAIMS Bonus, not a No BLAME Bonus. Check to see if you have NCB protection. Ask your own insurer about the risk to you of claiming through them.

If you claim against their insurance, there is no impact for your NCB. If it is a smallish claim, there is little benefit in going through your own insurance. For a larger claim, you probably want the benefit of your own insurer's claim assessor haggling with their claim assessor.

mrcheez

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119093617#Comment_119093617

Impossible to claim through their insurance. That's specifically what they said.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119093874#Comment_119093874

Sounds like someone is spoofing or mistaken. What insurance company is it? Here’s AXA’s facility for non customers to submit claims online.

bazz26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119093874#Comment_119093874

That is incorrect. If their client is liable then they cannot refuse the claim.

The only way I could see the other person's insurance company refusing the claim is if liability hasn't been established or it is being disputed by their client. This is normally where you have to claim off your own insurance to have the car repaired and then your insurance company chases the other person's insurance company for the cost of it. This can take along time and you will have an open claim against your own insurance until it is resolved meaning you cannot move to another insurance company come renewal time.

It seems to me that there is information missing from this story as they cannot just refuse to accept a claim unless they have grounds too. Why are they saying you cannot? Are they disupting liability?

wonski

Even if they dispute liability they still should open claim.

I opened a claim recently and there was no issue even though the Insurance company hasn't spoken to the other driver yet.

In fairness this was Aviva which is considered "not to be messing around" - that's what the independent assessor told me.

123 on the other hand doesn't even answer the phone when you want to discuss your claim.

So maybe it is just an insurance company being awkward and trying to fob you off.

mrcheez

Here's how it played out.

• I ring the other insurance company
• I say "I'd like to open a claim for damage to my car caused by a driver with your policy"
• They say "Are you the policy owner?"
• I say "No, the other driver is the policy owner"
• They say "Only the other driver can open a claim"

This was also verified by my own insurance provider. Their company is Allianz so maybe that's just rules Allianz have unless there's a similar form to the AXA one?

Will the other driver open a claim? No.

mrcheez

Has anyone here actually had an occurrence of getting hit by another driver, and calling their insurance to make a claim?

If yes, how long ago and what were the stages involved?

Seth Brundle

I had a driver do an illegal u-turn which left me t-boning them one evening in Nov 2020. I knew that given the damage, my car was likely to be an economic write off (a 2009 E60 520d M-Sport). They admitted full liability there and then (my dashcam would have shown this if needed, anyhow).

I let my insurers know of the incident but the following morning called their insurers who it turns out were already aware of the incident as the other driver phoned them shortly after the incident.

All in all, it took about a month to get payment from their insurers. I also needed a car and they hired an Audi A4 for me for that time.

Bought a 162-D F10 520d M-Sport using the funds the insurance company gave me to cover some of the cost.

Absolutely painless experience to be honest and aside from some haggling over what my car was worth there was no dispute really from them.

My own insurers, whilst aware of the incident, were not involved the process in any way, nor should they have been.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094057#Comment_119094057

Seems like they are breaking the law so.

From https://www.gov.ie/en/policy-information/666f59-motor-insurance/#accidents-in-ireland-caused-by-an-insured-irish-motorist-making-a-claim

"Under EU and Irish law, all EU citizens involved in road traffic accidents have the right to seek compensation for personal injuries or property damage directly from the insurer of the motorist causing the accident."

I'd approach them in writing or by email - force them to give you their position in writing, which might change their position or clarify it.

This also refers to third parties claiming against policies;

http://www.insuranceireland.eu/consumer-information/general-non-life-insurance/motor

Once you or a third party make a claim against your policy (even if you are not to blame for the accident), your discount will be affected. 

mrcheez

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094104#Comment_119094104

right, but the core part of what you said was

the other driver phoned them shortly after the incident

and it seems that's a requirement if I want the other insurer to process the claim without my own guys getting involved. Maybe it's new rules, but apparently you can't cold-call the other insurer without them first having been notified by their policy holder.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094162#Comment_119094162

I'd approach them in writing or by email - force them to give you their position in writing, which might change their position or clarify it.

sorry approach whom? The insurance company?

Interesting about the discount being affected... when I spoke over the phone to my insurance they assured me no discounts would be affected as long as I wasn't to blame (in this case it's clear cut as it gets thanks to photos and emails from the other driver saying they will pay for damage etc)

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094193#Comment_119094193

Yes, approach Allianz in writing, telling them your claiming off their driver for damage arising from their driver. Put the ball in their court.

Send them the govt info site statement confirming that you're entitled to do this.

Again, the statement from your own insurer that your NCB wouldn't be affected does not match my understanding. I'd look for this in writing before relying on it.

Seth Brundle

I can't see why you are not allowed to make a claim simply because their client is not talking to them.

Meeoow

I was hit by another driver. I claimed directly off his insurance. He disputed it, and said that I hit him. From the damage on both cars it was obvious he hit me. His insurance paid out. It took a few weeks and they sent out their assessor. I rang them every day to keep the pressure on. It wasn't even that much, less than 2,000.

The way I saw it, if I claimed off my insurance and let them chase his, there is no real incentive for them to recoup the money, they can just load my policy for the next few years instead.

mgbgt1978

It is totally ridiculous for the other party's insurer to claim that you have to go through your own insurer to initiate your claim.

If , for example, you knock a 5 year old off his bicycle (or simply drive into somebody's garden wall) are these people expected to contact their non-existent insurer to move things along.

If you're insured for 3rd party only your own insurer can do nothing. If you have fully comp then they will pay for the damage, and will then seek recompense from the other party's insurer. As mentioned if they cannot get repaid you are then in the situation where your no-claims is gone and any new insurers you try at renewal time will screw you.

The insurer in this situation is lying to you, and will probably continue to do so for as long as they can. Or until you get a solicitor involved.

Don't forget that these are the same people who are your best friend when it comes to actually purchasing a policy....... but absolute assholes when you are claiming against them.

BTW we had a very similar situation to Meeoow above a few years ago. Eventually €100 spent on a chat with a solicitor sorted it out.

Eggs For Dinner

So much misinformation here. You contact their insurer and advise them you are holding their driver liable for an accident. They will advise you they will discuss the matter with their client. If they come back after that and agree liability, they will proceed to settle quickly

If their client presents them with a differing account of events, they are obliged to defend him as best they can and the onus is on you to supply proofs (witness, dashcam, impact reports etc) If sufficient, his insurer then has the call to settle or not

bazz26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094066#Comment_119094066

I went through it at the start of the year after a fender bender. Other party admitted liability straight away but said to go through their insurance. I rang their insurance company straight away and opened a claim. They took all the details and said liability would not be established until they contacted their client to get their side of the story. They contacted me about a week later to state that they have accepted liability after speaking to their client and organised their assessor to come out to inspect my car. But there was no BS about me not being able to open a claim. Sure what if the other driver never bothers to open a claim, does that mean they are off the hook and you just go away?

Unfortunately I had to go the legal route with the insurance company as they were insistant on me getting it repaird at their preferred body shop rather than at one where I wanted it done. They became very difficult dragging out every communication hoping I'd get fed up and just agree to their terms, meanwhile I was driving around in a car with a broken rear light and scraped bumper for nearly 2 months. They then told me if I wasn't happy with the outcome I could open a case with their appeals board which again would be a drawn out process. At that point I got a motor accident solicitor involved who took over all communication with them. I got my own crash assessor who inspected the car and compilled a report which was forwarded to the insurance company. A day later the insurance company came back and agreed to pay the cost of repair at my body shop of choice as well as my solicitor and crash assessor's fees.

I felt bad for the other person as their insurance company will no doubt recoup all that including their messing about from their client who did nothing wrong in the sense of admitting liability. However insurance companies can be bullies, they try to take advantage of people's ignorance of how to deal with a RTA insurance claim, in order to suit their own needs. They probably get their way more times than they don't though judging by the fact that they keep trying to push you. Never been through this sort of thing before and it was a bit stressful but it really opens your eyes to the carry on that goes on in that industry.

mgbgt1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095441#Comment_119095441

Did you miss post #35?

The main source of misinformation here would appear to be coming from the other Driver's Insurer.

The Op did contact them...... and their response was very different to what you are stating. The other Driver's Insurer simply lied to him.

Eggs For Dinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096089#Comment_119096089

What's contained in post 35 is incorrect, but I'm not doubting what the insured was told or, possibly took from the conversation

Technically, only a policyholder can ever claim from any insurance policy. As an example, if I crash in to you, I owe you money for your loss. I then claim under my insurance policy contract for funds to give you to clear my debt. The practice is for my insurer to undertake all the administration to clear the debt on my behalf.

When a 3rd party contacts my insurer, holding me liable for an accident, my insurer will (should) open a claim file to see if I am indeed liable and need to be provided with funds to clear a debt. They will then contact me for my version of events and investigate the circumstances. Depending on their decision, they will either proceed with the claim, or defend my position with a view to closing MY claim

mistress_gi

I was the causer of a fender bender just last year.

I forgot to put the handbreak on and my car rolled into another car causing some scratches.

I wasn't super keen on going through the insurance so the driver of the car my car hit got a quote, i accepted, i paid the garage directly before car was fixed.

I got them to sign a piece of paper confirming payment in full.

I sent a picture of the statement to the other driver and thankfully, that was that.

If you go this route OP, that's what I'd do.

Pass on the garage details and the other driver can pay them directly before your car is fixed. If they are serious about settling the matter they will engage with the garage and get it sorted.

mrcheez

OK it's possible I just got in touch with someone completely clueless at Allianz. It was a guy based in the UK so perhaps he was referring to the rules over there.

I'll try them again based on what was said here and mention the legal rules.

As @mistress_gi mentioned above I'd be fine going outside the insurance on condition that money was paid upfront (as was specified above), rather than what was originally offered of paying once the repair was done.

It's a good suggestion that they pay the garage in advance.

mrcheez

ok great news.. the other driver has agree to what @mistress_gi suggested and will pay the garage in advance... so they will know the work is done, and there's no worry on my side that payment will not be forthcoming.

phew!

mistress_gi

And for a quick fyi, i didn't really quible the price, i just got it paid. It was my fault so...