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Stay or go?

  • 06-05-2022 11:10pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    Sorry for reposting from another thread anyone who’s already read it! Was looking to hear the thoughts and advice of older more experienced heads on here.

    in a bit of a dilemma and it’s tormenting me what to do. Risk vs reward I suppose


    I’m at a bit of a crossroads.

    I don’t know whether I’m mad or not with my next move. Or trying to be too ambitious, for what?

    I earn mid 70s euros at present for a global construction consultancy providing cost management to the client ( a well known multinational FAANG) on data centres in EMEA.


    I Work 100% remotely, no one goes into Dublin office, it’s now 2.5 hrs drive /train from me as I relocated during Covid from Dublin.

    its very handy, I rarely do more than 9-5pm and my bosses / colleagues are sound out. Some days I might even disappear for an hour or two and do my own thing, as long as I get my work done and available for client calls no one really cares where I’m at. No travel abroad involved to the project in Europe, I look after assessing costs only from the contractor.

    I’ve been in the role for 2 years now. my problem is I’m almost 29, and I feel I’m wasting away in the role, not learning anything and no pressure or responsibility. I have a fear I’ll become useless if I stay at it too long. I’m comfortable financially and own my own home with my partner. We’ve no children.

    I loved the home working but I’m now finding it tough on the head. Stuck in the house all day every day, apart from going to the gym and a walk in my town I don’t meet anyone some days even virtually apart from my OH.

    some people would bite my hand off for mid 70s salary at my age with no travel, I have tried to be grateful for that.


    I decided enough was enough recently as I got stuck in a rut and got a bit down, and unmotivated by not having enough to do, despite asking for more work from my boss. I applied to a few roles recently. I wouldn’t go back to any office 5 days per week, but I think one or two would be beneficial.


    A big 4 firm have offered me to move up to mid 80s base (10% increase) into their tax team concerning property and investment clients as a construction consultant, not an accountant.

    There is a bonus which I’ve been told will bring it close to 6 figures, but it’s a senior manager role. I’ve never really managed people before, will only have 1 or 2 grads under me.

    It’s a risk as it’s a new industry for me, away from QS’ing in construction. I’d be lying if I said I enjoy the construction industry or QS role, so I welcome the change. However I am not sure if I am getting into bed with the devil moving for money and a change, for what could be monster hours and pressure. I’ve asked around internally and they said the hours shouldn’t be more than 9-6 from someone in that department as it’s a specialist area and not auditing .

    not sure how it will look on the CV if I decide to fall back into my previous role.


    I will only have to travel into the Dublin office 1 day per week, maybe 2 the odd time which will be 2.5hrs train or car, a step up from 100% remote now. I could hate the travel again, usually a commute to an office over 30 mins is too much in my opinion.


    70% of me is accepting this new offer and the remainder says stay where I am and move to a different area within the company, take life easy and not worry too much.


    if I stayed where I am I’m going to take up a diploma in counselling therapy in evenings at night college and qualify as one to help people on the side with the view to doing that later when I’ve built up enough clients if it pays anywhere near as well as my current salary. I’ve did my research into it.


    I could be jumping out of something quite boring and handy where I can take a day off and no one really bats an eyelid, to what could be a stressful manager role with a lot of eyes. I could be looking back in no time!

    The longest I’ve stayed with a firm is 2 years so far, making this the longest stint.


    if it wasn’t for the large money increase in this new role I probably wouldn’t move. I am just missing a bit of daily human interaction and colleague craic in the office at the moment. I’m a relationship based person I suppose.



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,068 ✭✭✭✭billyhead


    No point been unhappy in a job. A lot of people would envy your position but each to their own. Also it's worth noting the saying the grass isn't always greener.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Patsy167


    You'll earn every penny you get in that big 4 job. If your main motivation is money, it won't end well.

    My advice would be to look for fulfillment outside of your job - meetup groups, volunteering, travel, or sports teams.

    Good on you OP, you're doing well for yourself and sound like you've a very level head.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    Yes that’s what I’ve heard.


    working for contractors in the past id never have gotten away with a 9-5, more like 8-7 on site. Hated it.

    not sure if I’ve the energy to go back to a long hours job but I’ve been told a couple of years in a big 4 firm looks good, so maybe put the head down and work hard.

    to be honest I would say a lot of it is luck and personality! Honestly! I’m not the most academic person ever, hated exams, only hold a bachelors degree. I get on well with people and I’ve done so many interviews over the years I’m very comfortable in them.


    it really is luck, I’d say I applied to maybe 50/60 jobs over the last 3 months and I just struck lucky with one. Or unlucky! Time will tell.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    Yep, after tax it’s probably only an extra 200 a month on the base salary to move. If I last the year I won’t see the bonus until next year so it’ll be a wait for it.


    definitely wary of the grass not being greener just for money .


    I just want to get out of construction and try something else, very toxic cut throat industry and I wouldn’t recommend to young people unless you’ve a thick skin



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,983 ✭✭✭Degag


    OP, when you say no one goes into the office in your current job, do you mean no one? Or do some people go in?

    If some do you could go in one day a week to "meet people" similar to what you'd do in the new job.

    Fulfilling your wish to get out and about a bit but keeping your comfortable number.

    This is moot of course if you do want a new challenge.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    None of my team or client account I suppose.

    its a tough one, as much as I want to go in and meet people it’s a 2.5 hr travel each way. Which means leaving 6:30am to be in for 9am. And then worrying about leaving around 4.


    there’s some people in on different floors. Just annoying when your boss or colleagues aren’t in so you can learn off of them and collaborate better



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Did you not ask this in another thread about 2 weeks ago? You were told by several people who have worked in Big4 that it isban unrelenting slog and you will be worked hard.

    You seem to value your free time. Say goodbye to that in Big4 at a senior role. And don't expect the office time in Dublin to be just 1 day, that can be changed at the drop of a hat. You could soon find yourself with 5 hours driving 2 or 3 days a week, on top of much longer hours than you're currently working.

    Stay!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,276 ✭✭✭RainInSummer


    Mid 80s base for what you describe as a senior management role? I'd be looking for triple that. Double for mid management in a big 4 company.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    I asked the manager I’m going to be working under and he told me he rarely does more than 9-6

    hes in a similar situation lives 2 hours away and goes in once. The 3 times I’ve had a video call with him he’s been at home.


    I agree with you I’ve found it hard to believe cos of what everyone else says about big4.


    I was honest and said if it was a slogging match and more than one day travel I wouldn’t last as I’d have zero interest in doing that just to climb the ladder.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    As far as I understand, above senior manager 1, you have SM2, and then director, then partner, who is the head of the business unit you report to. A partner interviewed me.


    I could be wrong there as I’m not from the financial industry.


    I looked up glassdoor and asked around and the lowest Senior Manager wage was around €74K upwards, so it’s prob not bad.?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 275 ✭✭squigglestrebor


    I wouldnt be overly bragging about a 75k role as a 28yr old , plenty on much more than that in Dublin , whats with the explaining that your arent the most academic?



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    I wasn’t bragging, sorry if I came across that way. I’m sure there are plenty on a lot lot more and fair play to them.

    Was just trying to be honest and say there are probably people who would love to have a handy number for that money , maybe in lower skilled jobs and no qualifications.


    id say most people in there 20s in this software development/engineer/data science space are making six figures easily. Well if you read any online forums that’s all you read about!


    was just saying that I have went to do postgrads / certificates and further education a few times, but revising for exams and putting in time to sit studying is not and never has been a strength of mine.

    i couldn’t wait to finish college and vowed I’d never study again unless it was something I was very interested in and passionate about.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    The ones on that could be working very hard for their money though. I worked hard to get here, but apart from the odd intense deadline that last a week or two I’ve never seen past 9pm on the laptop in my life or before 8am.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 213 ✭✭Quadrivium


    It didn't come across as a brag in my reading of it, you had to mention the salary and age for context. It is a very good wage for a 29 year old in any industry.

    Have you thought about looking into a different area of QS'ing? M&E, Civils? Have you thought about taking a step up in the QS career ladder, commercial manager, director etc? Maybe even think about setting up your own consultancy, you're young and have a lot of runway ahead of you in life so you can afford to take a chance, if it doesn't work out you can always slot back into a QS role with a consultancy or a contractor with ease as you already have a lot of experience.

    My understanding of the big 4 firms based purely on third hand information is that they get their money's worth out of you. Unless there was a hugely significant difference in salary like from mid 70's to 100k, then it's probably not worth the risk, you don't even know if you'll like it any more than your current position.

    Also, managing people is a different ball game. I have found the management of people to be far harder than understanding technical information, humans by nature are unpredictable, emotional etc. You could get lucky and get two great grads or you could get unlucky and get two grads who will increase your workload 10 fold, in a sector you yourself will be scrambling to get your head around.

    There is huge demand for experienced QS's at the moment so maybe you could make a move to a different company and stipulate that you'd like to work in office for at least part of the week. You have many options available to you within construction which will build on the strengths you already have.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    Thank you for that.

    construction is what I’ve wanted to get out of for a long time, I don’t particularly like the industry and haven’t for a long time.

    My current role is probably the one I’ve been ok about, definitely don’t hate it, it’s grand, remote working helped a lot as pre Covid being stuck in a construction office 5 days per week with dinosaurs and board room fist slammers almost drove me mad.


    do you work in it yourself @Quadrivium ? I went to do the chartership recently and realised about half way through the prep I have absolutely no interest in doing it, and wondered why I was bothering at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 213 ✭✭Quadrivium


    I tried to pm you but your profile is private. I work in the trades and have general building experience. If you really hate the industry, as in you wake up every morning full of dread and depression and have done for a long time then I'd say get away from it. If however, you've just got into a rut then I'd say do a bit more research before jumping ship, the culture in the big 4 might not be as overtly aggressive as it is in construction but it's just as Machiavellian, if not more so. The type of culture in big corporate offices is one in which they will smile to your face whilst plotting your destruction, see you making mistakes and smirk at the thought of the consequences rather than trying to help you out or point you in the right direction, and that's just your department colleagues, superiors will claim your work as theirs and your ideas as theirs.

    Every industry has it's pro's and con's, there's no such thing as 'finding your passion', make as much bank as you can and diversify with investments that will allow you to have financial freedom or security as soon as possible. It sounds like you are already half way up the ladder, you could be on 6 figures + within the next 5 years if you remain in construction, still young and with the ability to accumulate assets that will give you long term financial security.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    @Quadrivium just took it off private now, didn’t even know it was on, I couldn’t seem to message you either.


    thought about starting my own consultancy and pricing work for small contractors who do extensions / house Refurbs etc but I wouldn’t be a whole pile sure where to start if I was asked to do one and wouldn’t have the confidence, I could put the estimate together no prob for them if they knew the prices, never worked for a small company on jobs that size and wouldn’t be that familiar with prices of materials as all my jobs were large scale as in €5m+. We’d usually receive composite rates from subcontractors in their Boq.


    thanks for the advice on big4. The only reason I am moving to them is for the change of industry and the money. I’ll be going from mid 70s to €100K including bonus, but the base is mid 80s, so I’m sceptical of that bonus tbh, might not ever see it if I don’t see 12 months.

    if I stay where I am and ask for a raise up to 80s that could be a goer, but not in current role as it’s boring as hell. Basically a letterbox for one of the big technology / social media firms


    I don’t hate the industry anymore since I moved client side to consultancy. It’s grand to be honest. Just feel like I’m not learning anything, and get away with doing too little WFH. I come from a Construction background, so I like getting out to site once a week or so to see the project.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Adrienne Careful Historian


    A job you find easy and not overly taxing for 70k+ a year WFHing? Personally, I'd being staying put and taking up a hobby or something.


    and get away with doing too little WFH

    You make this sound like a bad thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    I know, at the minute I’m saying I’m bored, stuck in the house, not motivated, all that.

    but on the flip side isn’t it great. From 4pm on most days I can essentially go to the gym early, do lots , just taking it for granted.


    it’s the social interaction I crave, but my local area are opening up a small working hub soon so that should be good.



  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭Xidu


    You are joking? Working in big 4 for 7 years and managing 8 people my salary is 80k and 60k shares.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭Xidu


    Looks like the really motivation isn’t about career progress? If it is then you should move. Becoz once you get into managers door, you can move up higher in few years. But of course tougher work longer hours. Relationship w co-workers might sucks in the beginning or latter. As being a manager, there’s always someone in team don’t like you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    80K base, and what does the shares mean? Is that not only if you’re a director ? I was only told about a bonus. And that It is in the 15-30% category.

    what sort of hours do you do?



  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭Xidu


    My bonus was 12k last year.

    so total package was 80k base, 12k bonus, 60k shares.

    my working hours are crazy, sometimes weekends, public holidays that I will have to work if there’s emergency.

    but daily work time is 8:30-5:30, sometimes con calls can last until 7pm.

    so no way have 9-5hours job while wishing to own 100k

    not what I know. All my friends who owns more than 100k package is working crazy hours.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    Some package. I wouldn’t do those hours you do to be honest. Not for £200K.

    done those sort of hours in Australia for big money once; fell into a state of depression and put on weight very quick. Different people are built for it I suppose



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,269 ✭✭✭893bet


    Worth noting alot of (perhaps all) of the direct pay rise will be soaked up by cost of commute.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    Hiya; I’ll only have to go in once per week. That’s what my new boss does at the moment and he’s about 2hrs away.

    train is £20 return or else drive, cost more on diesel.


    if I have to go to a client project / offices a second day each week I can claim expenses


    I wouldn’t commute 2.5hrs each way more than 2 days per week for any money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 929 ✭✭✭JPup


    Just FYI you might want to consider editing some of the detail out of your initial post if you are sensitive about being identified. I assume if your boss or anyone you work with was to read it they’d know it was you. If you decide to stay put it could make things awkward for you.



  • Posts: 0 Mara Loose Punch


    That’s what I read too, but I can tell you something for nothing, and I won’t go into it too much here, but I know somebody with decades experience in senior tech who sporadically struggles with debt, doesn’t own a house or drive a car. Many make out very well in small money, others flitter away apparently large money. But it also seems there isn’t always that huge earning power that people tend to speak of.



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  • Posts: 0 Mara Loose Punch


    People underestimate the social interaction bit. Ok, some can be negative in an organisation where bullying is allowed to fester, but in a well managed environment there’s nothing like interacting face to face with other human beings. Whether you are introverted or extroverted, it matters not, we all need to have some presence of fellow humans passing our way, if even to wave over to and occasionally share a quick anecdote. Connecting the entirety of our working time through a screen just isn’t as fulfilling.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    Yeah, although a lot of people on LinkedIn seem to be working remote for years, suits some I guess.


    I think even if I were going to a local work hub type place that isn’t my company’s office I’d be grand, just mixing with people in general



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,873 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    28 is the time of your life to make the big moves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    agreed! id imagine it's way more complicated with children



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,690 ✭✭✭sheroman01


    I get how you're feeling. It sounds perhaps that you're mostly feeling a bit "guilty" for not being busy in work, despite asking for more work and being a good worker. But I would say there's nothing to be guilty or feel bad about. The company seem happy with you, so why not enjoy being not too stressed and being able to relax most days a week. I'm a hard worker in my job but I also appreciate my mental health and appreciate the days where I'm not overwhelmed with work.

    I would say push for a raise in your current role. At least it'll take the money aspect out of your decision to move. Then could you ask to change your working hours (start earlier, or later), or work 4 days a week? Or ask for more holidays? Maybe you can then make the most of your free time and go on more holidays with your other half or mates. Make the most of the time you're free!

    And for the days you're working from home, could you perhaps work from a cafe or library? I find it really helps shakes things up, even if it's just a 1/2 day a week.



  • Posts: 0 Mara Loose Punch


    Yes of course, but it is disastrous for some individuals who fall badly into addiction when left with 24 hours opportunity mostly on their own. I’ve heard of a number of cases that arose over the pandemic, and keep hearing of more that have arisen. One way or another it is extremely important to get breaks away from own environment that involve not-strictly work-related interaction. Most of us are not content to be hermits, and being with a spouse, partner, kids, house mate, or sibling etc most if the hours nearly every day could drive a person to be resentful if it is done not out of choice where other options are available.

    That’s a bit off topic, but OP does seem to be finding the monotony/isolation is getting to them, so it is a big factor in their decision and is also something that many people would find themselves having to take into account. Having an absorbing and completely different hobby that you do in participation with different people can be a good compromise.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,873 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    Complications yes. But also youth give you time to recover from mistake and take risks that you won't want to later. Without without kids.

    Though Kids can make it hard to be that mobile that adaptable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,873 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    I've always worked better when I've had like minded people to bounce off. Doesn't have to be all the time.

    That said you can be in office surrounded by people and no one to bounce ideas of. Then it doesn't matter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    Thanks for that, comforting to be able to relate that someone else has felt the same.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe




  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Adrienne Careful Historian


    I replied earlier in the thread saying you should keep the well paid handy job but you know what, this is spot on. When I was 27/28 I went a totally different way with my career and it is the best thing I ever did.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,690 ✭✭✭sheroman01


    In life, not work! If you can make a decent wage, and not have to kill yourself each day working, then go for it! Use your time to enjoy life - go travelling, whether it's in Ireland or abroad, work from abroad even. Take up a new hobby, or put more hours into one you already love.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    I think I’ve come to the conclusion I’ll give it a lash and if it’s a disaster I’ll try and revert back into the same position in this firm!



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    Thanks for all advice folks. Handed in notice to current firm, they tried to offer me a more interesting position and my director and line manager wanted to stage a call for today. Didn’t mention anything about money though. Why do companies only care all of a sudden when you’re leaving?

    I communicated that i wasnt doing enough for 6 months now and it fell on deaf ears, felt like they were happy to just get a fee for me from the client.


    nervous about the new role in big4 but I’ll give it a go and start in June. I hate the thought of having to do a bit of job hopping again to find the right firm if it doesn’t work out as my current firm was the first one I was comfortable in for a long time and I didn’t dread Sunday nights



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭DataDude


    Best of luck OP. Just a few thoughts and snippets that may be of interest (albeit a bit late!). Don’t work in Big 4 but know a tonne who do. Below is recentish salary scale on audit side (generally poorly paid so you can probably add a bit, but gives you a sense of relativities).

    Associate Director (1) - 82k + 15k bonus

    AD (2) - 84k + 20k bonus

    Director (1) - 93k + 20/25k bonus

    Director (2) - 100k + 30k bonus

    (Title names can be slightly different from company to company)

    pensions are typically age related. Non existent before 30. Excellent after.

    After the above you’re into salaried partner and equity partners which is when real money comes into it.

    From everything I know, in the big 4, you fit into one of two boats.

    A) acquiring a skill set which makes you incredibly attractive to senior industry roles at which point you exit.

    B) pushing hell for leather for partnership.

    Relative to the work, the pay is pretty poor throughout until partnership, so it makes no sense to hang around the middle management tiers long term. From your previous posts I don’t get the vibe you’re a sacrifice it all for partnership kinda guy. So get in there, work hard, build up a skill set and then move back into a senior industry role in a few years on better money with better work life balance! Good luck!

    Also, a previous post mentioned shares as part of big 4 Comp. All big 4 are private partnerships so I have never heard of anyone being awarded ‘shares’…as there are none to award. Would take this with pinch of salt. Big 4 are remarkably uniform and strict with their packages. You don’t get people negotiating out of the ordinary comp until very senior positions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Fiyatoe


    very interesting to hear that thanks.


    when you say move back to a senior industry role after a year or two, is this back to their own industry? I’m moving from construction/cost consultancy into big4 Tax/Real Estate, so without any accounting or tax qualifications I’d imagine I’d be pretty niche in the firm and probably couldn’t go much further / diversify across it with no financial industry background!



  • Registered Users Posts: 275 ✭✭squigglestrebor


    Best of luck in the new role , hope it works out. 28 is the time to take a chance. Well done.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,365 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    you dont have to take the job you have been offered but you should move, obviously you want to progress and get more out of your career, being bored at 29 is only going to go one way. you need a certain amount of challenge and stress (not too much obviously) to get the best out of yourself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,365 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    you should be getting paid more. (assuming the first 3.5 of those 7 years werent as a grad)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,873 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    To make money quickly you have to be mercenary and move often. Loyalty and being passive rarely rewards as much as going getting.

    While it doesn't work out for everyone, you'll make more money working for yourself than for someone else. But you'll work harder for it.

    28 is the age to suck it up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,365 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    or at least make it know that you are more than happy to move...

    but i agree being passive gets your nowhere.



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