Sex-starved marriage

p19dew

Sex has been an issue in my marriage since the start. The signs were there early on but I was too young and naive to notice them. It hid itself among life events: depression after childbirth, overseas move stress, minor medical conditions, tiredness from daily mom tasks and work. I was compassionate and patient, always putting her needs first. I went many months at a time without intimacy. When it did happen, only missionary allowed and finish as quick as possible. Have I really experienced sex in that case?

COVID amplified the situation. House all to ourselves during the day for two years and she constantly rejected me.

My birthday, the third and final trinity of annual sex day is approaching (Valentine's Day and Wedding Anniversary recently, both no sex or anything romantic) and I honestly don't want to spend the day with her as I know I'll just end up frustrated. I even stopped watching movies with her as the sex scenes depress me.

We've talked about it numerous times and I have permission to open up the marriage. I've tried Tinder recently and the attention/matches I received felt very nice but no one is interested in a friend with benefits arrangement. Is such an arrangement even possible?

Besides "the issue" we're a very good and supportive couple that gets things done. I do find her to be too much of a neat freak and puts her friends above me (she'll spend all day cleaning and preparing for a friend's visit but won't even make an effort to buy me a Valentine's Day gift). It just feels like we're good co-workers, not a romantic couple.

Anyone here have a similar experience? How did you handle it?

rob316

How long ye married?

thefallingman

It's never going to change op, so instead of cheating on Tinder, my advice is to end the marriage and leave with dignity. Hopefully you meet someone more like minded.

CreadanLady

She is telling you her vision of married life all along. You didn't listen or take heed.

Situations like this more or less never change.

At the end of the day she doesn't want it, so it is not right to want to cajole or manipulate her into doing it either.

The writing is on the wall here mate. Break up.

NickNickleby

I'd be checking legal consequences here if I was you. Citizens Information says that a person can request a judicial separation if a spouse commits adultery. Perhaps this is an over-reaction by me, but the seemingly cavalier response to you exploring 'other options' would ring alarm bells for me.

Having said that, have you sought counselling - as a couple? If she is unwilling, then go on your own and say she doesn't want to engage, you might get advice on how to convince her to at least attend one session. Of course, she might say there's nothing wrong, no need for counselling, but again, the professionals have no doubt seen this all before. Try that path before walking into something unexpected when you score on Tinder.

p19dew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119008917#Comment_119008917

So true, I honestly feel stupid for not noticing or taking action earlier.

p19dew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119008895#Comment_119008895

15 years as of last month.

p19dew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119008950#Comment_119008950

Good point and it has been in the back of my mind. The open marriage permission is nice but what proof do I have that we agreed to this if she changes her mind? Do couples sign contracts for this?

CreadanLady

You don't have to have consent or any written agreement to get separated. You don't have to stay in a marriage. You can just leave if you want and agree with her that ye are separated if possible. If ye cannot agree separation then get a judicial separation. the most common grounds is that the relationship has just broken down.

You don't have to do counselling. You have to be made aware of its availability, but you don;t have to do it. At the end of the day, if the marriage is knackered, what is the point of counselling. It is just a waste of time and money.

As for signing a contract for open marriage! lol, that is just nonsense. And it would have no legal standing if you did. Its just bull.

vegandinner

do you think you can make an open marriage work? Would getting the odd ride outside the marriage satisfy you? If yes then try to make it work, if not then it’s time to leave.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058244263/sex-starved-marriage

no one is interested in a friend with benefits arrangement. Is such an arrangement even possible?

My impression is those set-ups generally evolve when the couple are genuine friends in the first place. I doubt a married guy on a dating site saying upfront he is looking for an fwb is going to find too many takers, unless he's Colin Farrell or something...

p19dew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119009029#Comment_119009029

Have you done this before? You're very knowledgeable on the legal side. :)

Something she reminds me about each time we have the talk is our marriage vow "for better or for worse". She compares her asexuality to getting a disease or having an accident. Would I leave her if she was terribly injured in a car crash and we could never have sex again? Things are the way they are and we have to work around it.

I love my family and don't want to lose contact with my kids. I'm aware them seeing us quarrelling due to my built up sexual frustration isn't good for them either.

p19dew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119009087#Comment_119009087

Is there a just friends option on Tinder? :) The genuine friends route does seem like the best path. I do have many female friends but would need to open up about my marriage issue.

You're probably getting to "mid life crises territory - Fear of missing out".

You currently have a marriage in name only. 'For better or for worse - there is that'... but, do you owe her not having a mature relationship for the rest of your life? Only you can answer that. I'd not hold it against you, but I'm not your conscience.

Apart from the sex life and watching movies together what have ye in common - what's your general relationship like? Would your children be shocked if you separated?

CreadanLady

If you think that breaking up or going open marriage is going to solve your intimacy problem then think again. Think about it, a middle aged married man with children. How many people are going to see that as a good catch?

p19dew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119009242#Comment_119009242

Really only grocery shopping in common. :P No sex life and we don't watch movies together anymore (last thing we watched was Money Heist which had lots of great sex scenes, didn't turn her on at all).

Work from Home as really hurt my social life and opened my eyes in terms of our relationship.

The fact I don't even want to spend my birthday with her says a lot too.

p19dew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119009301#Comment_119009301

Yes I got that feeling swiping. Single middle aged women with kids have it easier I think. So separating and finding a proper relationship that includes sex seems to be my best option.

NickNickleby

There was an interesting program on telly last night. It was about women going through the menopause and all that entails. One aspect that came in for scrutiny was lack of libido in these women (in the program). They opted to try a new therapy and they themselves said it changed them completely, from zero interest in sex to wanting and enjoying it. They were given testosterone. Regardless of the hormone given, it was the fact that there was treatment specifically aimed at loss of libido. So, like say, depression, its a chemical or hormonal imbalance that can be treated. Bear in mind, this wasn't a medical program, but medical doctors did speak on it, and specifically about this therapy.

One of the women was in her thirties, I think. (although she had been treated for breast cancer, so I'm unsure if her case tells anything).

If you want to watch something on telly with your wife, find this program. It featured Davina Mc Call.

p19dew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119009322#Comment_119009322

Interesting idea but she won't do it. She's won't even take a birth control pill.

She's oblivious to it but I see women in couples we know making efforts. One recently talked about taking out a contraceptive implant. Another sent a beach vacation photo and had a birth control patch.

CreadanLady

@NickNickleby I am sure that would be a complete waste of time. That is for treatment of loss of libido as a result of menopause. The OP's wifes situation is different, she never was interested in intimacy. So it is not a hormone problem.

At the end of the day that is really just a way of attempting to manipulate her into it. That is wrong too. If she doesn't want intimacy and doesn't feel it is a problem for her, then she should not be made to feel guilty for it or feel she has to force herself to do something she wants. Any attempt otherwise is coercion.

OP is in a take it or leave situation here, simply put. He can wither put up with the status quo, or separate and take his chances that someone might be interested. But he will also be bringing a lot of hassle his own way as he will have to move out and buy or rent another home and pay maintenance to the wife and children.

I don't imagine he will enjoy much popularity in the swiping game unless he is weathly and unusually good looking. I have friends on tinder and they say that all the middle aged fellas are mostly married or divorced with complicated back stories and they just are like Georgie Burgess types out for a sleazy ride and have nothing much to offer.

p19dew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119009053#Comment_119009053

I won't know unless I try. I feel I may need a romantic connection to someone though to be fully satisfied.

Coincidentally I'm seeing a BOI Wedding Loan ad in the sidebar. Thanks Boards.ie :P

p19dew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119009375#Comment_119009375

+1 She doesn't want it and I would never force her to do it. It really feels like me asking a heterosexual male friend to have sex with me even though we're both straight. He'll never do it regardless of hormone treatments, flowers, etc.

YellowLead

OP i would recommend Ashley Maddison - plenty of women and men there in unhappy marriages that are in the same lack of intimacy position as you and looking for similar.

I imagine the audience on the straightforward dating apps would be very limited for you

Ultimately though it sounds like the marriage isn’t a good one - it’s tough to leave financially, emotionally with kids etc, but at least you’ll have a chance to find somebody who would be a better match. And don’t make the same mistake again!!!

CreadanLady

Ashley Madison is largely filled fake profiles, scam artists and foreign extortionists. Stay away from that.

NickNickleby

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119009375#Comment_119009375

I think coercion is a very strong word to be using. I'm suggesting that more information is available. Also, while the treatment was mentioned in the context of menopausal women, we can't say that the OP's wife does NOT have the same hormonal imbalance. (edit: removed what might have been interpreted as a snarky jibe at CL, apologies if it has been interpreted as such by those who have seen it). Now, IF it transpires it is a hormonal problem, then appropriate therapy would be beneficial - as demonstrated last night. One of the women was very effusive in her praise of the therapy and its outcome. But, they were given the CHOICE to participate. Which is what I would expect here. On the other hand, you could be right and she simply has made a conscious choice to go this route. I believe in considering all the possibilities to ensure the best possible outcome.

If my wife was unhappy with me because I was very moody or lethargic - perhaps indicated by a lack of interest in any type of activity, or an introversion - and suggested I could do with advice to see what was causing it, I wouldn't see that as coercion. Even if I couldn't see any problem myself.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119008985#Comment_119008985

You don't need a legal reason to separate in Ireland, and it is a "no fault" state.

Even if you had sex with someone other than your wife every weekend for the last 15 years, it would have no affect on the separation agreement.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119009206#Comment_119009206

She compares her asexuality to getting a disease or having an accident.

So she identifies herself as asexual?

If so, no amount of talking, hormones, therapists or anything else can change that. That is her orientation - it is how she is. It's not something she can change, either.

She has agreed to an open marriage which allows you to have sex with someone else, so your choices are to see if that works or you, or end the marriage.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119008950#Comment_119008950

I'd be very interested to see the link to that particular piece of advice from CI, seeing as all separations/divorces are considered "no fault" under Irish law.

OP, this forum often gets flak for people going straight to the "Just leave" option, but in your case I think that really is the most sound advice. Your marriage is purely a platonic one at this point. Staying for the kids is a fool's errand, thousands of couples with children split up without the world ending. Two of my siblings are in blended families, there is life out there after a marriage break-up.

NickNickleby

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119009401#Comment_119009401

oh dear, oh dear. What this "force her " talk?

I should preface this with a response to the question you put in the OP, no I've no experience of it so can't say how I handled it.

I know four couples who split up. It caused major financial problems for all of them. Some said years later that they should have stayed put, fewer were happier for having made the jump. Just one, of all of them, was because of lack of sex (as far as I know) - and one half of that couple was far happier ever since, the other half not so much. So in my, hardly representative, example, I can say the people who came away feeling better for having split up was very much in the minority , while the rest wished they'd "tried harder" to use a phrase I heard.

For what its worth, I think 'lack of sex guy' acted very selfishly and told him so, but that's because I watched the family disintegration he created and left behind.

So, while I have attempted to make suggestions on where solutions might be found, I will never suggest that you have justification to break up your family. Nor have you justification for making your children unhappy by having arguments. I agree with @CreadantLady above about your 'take it or leave it' options - well apart from, I would probably say "suck it up", harsh as it might sound.

I think lack of intimacy in a relationship must be a real killer, and have a lot of sympathy for both of you, because I believe it helps to form much closer bonds. I hope you find a solution to your dilemma - which might even be taking up a very absorbing hobby, like golf or model trains. Seriously.

Finally, don't cheat. It is a really undignified solution and made worse for everyone when it becomes public knowledge, as it inevitably does. How many men do you know who are considered great lads for cheating? How many men do you know who are considered scumbags for cheating? In my experience, the first has always been "zero" and the second "all of them". Although, once again my sample size is small, probably less than the fingers on one hand.

Good luck.

rob316

Is no strings attached sex enough for a marriage to survive? There is a big difference IMO having sex with a hook up and the person you love. Like I'd have a major problem with my wife if she didn't want to be intimate/have sex with me. We all have high spots and dry patches in our sex lives with our partners, life is busy, things get in the way but the OP's has been non existent for 15 years.

She won't do anything about it, so the only question the OP has to ask himself is. Is the rest of your relationship good enough to keep going? I'd be gone along ago to be honest and I think you need to be too.

The resentment and eventual hate towards her will grow.

Virgil°

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119009301#Comment_119009301

Jesus what an awful thing to say. What are his alternatives? I know two men within my immediate family alone who had children with and split up with their first wives. Both are now blissfully happy with their second. Both were middle aged when it happened and both were snapped up fairly fast.

OP this has dragged on long enough. If there was even the slightest willingness in your wife to change things it would have happened in the 15 years you've been with her. Things haven't changed because shes happy with the arrangement. Shes also acutely aware of how frustrating the situation must be for you but still doesn't care enough. There isn't even a question that needs answering here. If you want happiness and a fulfilling intimate relationship you CAN have it, trust me. But it won't be with this woman.

vegandinner

Is she open to having the doctor do a hormone panel? If it’s a hormone issue it can be diagnosed and treated. But equally it could simply be that she simply doesn’t want to have sex with you.

StringerBell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119009314#Comment_119009314

It would seem to be the case, I don't like to tell people what they should do in their relationships as a rule.

I would suggest to you though that bar having some conversation & therapy etc to see if the issue with your wife can be remedied then living a sexless life is just too cruel & unfair on yourself to continue with. Life is too short, everyone deserves to at least try to be happy.

You will likely end up growing more distant and possibly resentful of your wife as time goes on I would think and in the end you won't be meeting her needs anymore than she is meeting yours. Both of you will then be miserable. We get one go here, and owe it to ourselves to do all we can to make that one go enough.

I am truly sorry to hear of the situation your in, its heartwrenching especially as its a family that will be dissolving rather than just a marriage but it doesn't have to mean the children are negatively impacted once you can be amicable.

Best of luck

CreadanLady

@vegandinner .

No you misunderstand. She has never really wanted intimacy. He knew of this characteristic before he married her. And she was able to have one or more children so her hormones were working properly.

So I greatly doubt that it is a hormone issue. And even if it was, she is not bothered by the lack of intimacy. She is totally indifferent to it.

The truth is, this is not her problem. It is the OPs problem. She is entitled to bodily autonomy and is entitled to a sex life or no sex life as she sees fit. She should not feel any obligation to undergo any sort of hormone tests or treatments just to humour her husband nor should she have to listen to conversations or badgering about their sex life if a sex life is not something she wants.

The OP knew before he married her, many years ago, that she had little to no interest in sex. He had the options of taking it or leaving it then. He took it.

The OP can do what he wants, here, either put up with it or separate and go find a partner with whom is is compatible.

What is not acceptable here is any sort of attempt to entice, persuade or out maneuver the wife into changing her mind about intimacy that she clearly doesn't want.

If she didn't want it 15 years ago, didn't want it all through the last 15 years, and doesn't want it now, there is practically nought chance of her voluntarily changing her mind in response to some 5 point program and hormone test that some here would wish to force down her throat when she clearly has no interest in any of it.

magic_murph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119009442#Comment_119009442

I have to say I have found all your comments on this thread very judgmental, incorrect and somewhat rude when compared to the original problem the OP posted. I don't find anything you have suggested to be remotely helpful / supportive to the OP.

Just my feedback.

To the OP

The best thing you can do is talk with your wife, I know you have done this before but layout out the problem, your frustrations and what you think the next steps are (prob separation. Explain that you want to stay on good terms for the kids etc and try to understand what it is that is preventing her from being romantic. Does she still love you, find you attractive etc

By the sounds of things it is highly unlikely things will magically turn around but at least you will have tried and will be able to move on knowing you have tried your best ad the problem is somewhat out of your control.

You will thank yourself down the line by giving yourself the chance of a happier future for yourself.

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119009301#Comment_119009301

No one has ever found a new partner after separating? Even middle aged? What nonsense.

I'd rather be alone than keep been miserable in a sexless marriage.

NickNickleby

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119009556#Comment_119009556

Here you go, its down the page under "Grounds for judicial Separation...

Judicial separation (citizensinformation.ie)

If the woman identifies as asexual, and the OP has said she has referred to herself as such - then there is nothing to fix.

She is not broken. She is not menopausal. She does not have an illness, or need a hormone profile.

She just does not feel sexual attraction.

This does not mean she cannot feel love, or have a close relationship. She can. It does not mean that she doesn't care enough. She just does not need sex to be part of her relationship, and has no desire for it.

The OP now has to decide if the marriage can continue to work for him. If being in a loving and caring relationship with her, but fulfilling his sexual needs elsewhere, can be enough.

If it cant, then he has the option to bring it to an end.

It's sad. But no one is to blame here.

CreadanLady

It is just a random thought but since the couple are married with children, did the OP share the burden of household duties fairly and evenly with the wife for the duration of the childrearing? These types of threads do come up from time to time and somthing that is often suggested is that he could try doing more around the house and helping with the children to take the burden off of the wife and it might aid things. But given what OP describes, it sounds like that might not be the issue here. But even all that aside, I find that to be a very reductive take on intimacy issues like this.

Apiarist

I agree with others in this thread, if your wife doesn't want sex and doesn't feel the need for it, then you should separate, hopefully on good terms. "Open marriage" is very unlikely to work.

The separation may be a good thing for both of you -- you'll find someone who is into the physical intimacy, and she may find someone who is more compatible with her needs (or be happier without a partner).

dotsman

As there are children in play, I wouldn't go down the separation route unless as a last resort. Open marriages can be messy as it can involve emotions etc. Not sure of your financial status, but if you can afford escorts, this would be an area that they specialise in. It keeps emotions out of it, and with you sexually satisfied/happy, you can hopefully find better common ground with your wife to salvage the relationship and forge a strong co-parent/friend/life-partner relationship.

vegandinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119010417#Comment_119010417

Strange take. I fail to see how asking his wife if she was open to having the doctor taking a blood test can be considered coercive control or such like.

hormone imbalance is common and treatable, can’t see how that relates to a woman’s bodily autonomy. No libido is a symptom of a hormone imbalance, it should be checked by a doctor. It may not be that at all, but can’t see the harm in getting it checked.

she seems a very selfish woman, does she make any effort with the kids?

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119010481#Comment_119010481

If being in a loving and caring relationship with her, but fulfilling his sexual needs elsewhere, can be enough.

Highlighted bit isn't necessarily a piece of cake, unless we're talking a hookup with Palm and her five sisters.😆 How pursuing that option could end up is what his female partner thinks is a relationship but to him is just a sexual outlet. AndOP doesn't sound me like the kind of guy who would want to string a woman along like that. As he suggested FWB could be the answer, at least temporarily, but not easy to find a willing partner for that...

put_the_kettle_on

To the OP

I don't have much in the way of advice to offer but I do have experience of this and I thought I'd share.

My marriage started off pretty good in the bedroom. We were both enthusiastic ( if a little inept ) and never missed an opportunity for sex. That dipped a little once the offspring came along but the desire was still there even if the opportunity wasn't always.

However, ill health began to affect hubby's ability to maintain an erection sometimes. I thought it was no big deal, there were other roads to pleasure but it turned out to be a much bigger deal to Himself. I tried to talk about it, gently and with no pressure or criticism, just support and understanding. He refused to see the doctor. ( viagra was only on scrip in those days )

There was a gradual emotional withdrawal by Himself. He never was particularly tactile, unless it was leading to sex, so there were no more hugs or cuddles in bed. No kissing, apart from the driest and most perfunctory of pecks. No holding hands walking together. Just an eventual emotional dessication for both of us.

Over the years his health has worsened and I know that no amount of viagra would help now but in any case we are beyond that. It's been so long that neither of us are capable of viewing the other in a sexual light. I think that happens eventually.

Sorry OP, I didn't mean to ramble. I wanted to tell what it's like when you decide to stay 15 years down the line. For us, we are friends who rely on each other greatly. I still smile when he walks in from work, I still want to feed him like a king. He tells me often that I am his rock and he loves me to bits. In many ways our cogs fit together well. It's just sex where we miss a gear.

I don't mention sex anymore, and I think I made my peace with celibacy in my late 40s but honestly, it creates sadness and I think it's largely why I'm reliant on anti depressants. And cake.

You are young enough to find love and lust. Anyhoo, whatever you decide to do, I wish you well, friend. I wish you well x

CreadanLady

@vegandinner the woman claims to be asexual. She does not want nor need sexual contact to be happy. By what you are suggesting, hormone tests and so on, you are implying that she has some sort of disorder or condition that can be medicated or therapied away and all of a sudden she will have libido.

You are saying that this womans choices around her sex life or lack there of are something that can be fixed. She is not ill, and there is nothing wrong with her for being asexual. What you are suggesting is akin to advocating a sort of conversion therapy and in my opinion it is a very sexist stance to take on it.

The problem here is the OP. He is not fulfilled because he and his wife are not compatible. There is only one solution there. Break up and move on and get a relationship with someone new. But he must make himself aware and acknowledge, that a middle aged man with an ex wife and teenage children is going to be pretty far back in the queue on the dating scene. He has to acknowledge that now and accept it rather than going at it blind and realising a few months down the line that this isn't at all what he had imagined. And at that point he will have no family home or wife to go home to.

Personally, I wonder, is a bird in the hand worth 2 in the bush.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119010567#Comment_119010567

I don't disagree. It's not an easy situation. And it may not be what he wants anyway.

vegandinner

While I agree that the OP should probably break up, I disagree that the symptoms of a medical condition should be ignored. Get the GP to rule it out and have peace of mind.

Maybe she doesn’t want to have sex with anyone ever again, that’s fine and her choice, but can’t see why you wouldn’t check to make sure with a GP

sex is an important and rewarding part of life and it would be a shame if she was missing out on it because of an undiagnosed condition.

CreadanLady

i think the common denominator in these threads where they come up is that the men often know, from ever before the marriage, that the then girlfriend was not too bothered about sex, but they all stuck their heads in the sand and flat out ignored these warning signs and went ahead and got married in the hope things would improve down the line.

When, in the history of human kind, did things improve after the occurance of a marriage?

These fellas ignored all the signs. The then girlfirends were saying very clearly to them, but not in words, that they did not want or need sexual intimacy. It was laid before them, in plain sight. But they ignored the obvious signs and went ahead anyway. It seems to be a very common thing.

And don't get me wrong, You see the same with women. Marrying fellas that are not right for them for whatever reason being drinking, womanising, gambling etc hoping that they will change after marriage. Invariably, it always ends in disappointment.

CreadanLady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119010717#Comment_119010717

She had children succesfully and both before and after, she had not much interest in intimacy. It is safe to say that her hormones and so on were working well as evidenced by having children, and she has also stated she is more or less asexual and is happy with that.

So stop trying to reduce the woman to a blackbox device where you input hormones and sex emerges as the output. Can you not see how objectifying that is to her when she has reputedly stated that she is asexual and does not want sex.

Asexuality is not a medical condition.

CreadanLady

@[Deleted User] 100%. What VD is suggesting is uncomfortably close to getting into the realm of conversion therapy. It is offensive and demeaning.