Delayed expectations

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119020889#Comment_119020889

It's a pretty awkward situation that you're in, and through no fault of your own. He isn't just her son though, and if mum wants you to stay away, and you want to respect her wishes but want some contact with the boy, would she object to you sending a card with a short message? I know letter writing is outdated these days, but maybe a card is a possibility to get some contact started. Your son may be happy enough with that for now - it's just a small sign from you that you're not ignoring him. Texts, phone calls, meetings can always come later. None of us knows what's around the corner, things can change quickly that's why I'm a great believer in 'not putting off until tomorrow' but I know that doesn't suit everybody. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119021159#Comment_119021159

I don’t know what he was told, so I am not sure if proactive contact would make things more awkward? After all I was clearly told that she didn’t want contact so I doubt she would be happy for me to reach out. I don’t know.

She doesn’t know or care too much about her social media privacy settings so I can see some glimpses of their lives which she decides would be worth sharing. He seems happy in those and while I am the first to doubt the happy facade I don’t want to rock that boat.

If she wants to tell him I’m a dick then I can’t change it. If he has inherited my “different wires” (because beautifully there is also a genetic link) then I might be having a terrible influence at this stage in his life.

If the question of money was to be raised I will ask for a paternity test. But I am looking at my own 12 year old self in the pictures she has up. I don’t think she would have contacted me if he wasn’t mine.

However. If he ever asks why I didn’t contact him I will tell him the truth. I shouldn’t have to lie because she decided it was her preferred way of handling things. No vindictive intention here.

Big Bag of Chips

It sounds like as far as he's aware you don't know he exists. So I think the chance of him asking you why you didn't look for him is very slim. You don't have to lie "to protect her". This isn't about her, or you. This is about a 12 year old child. So it is about protecting him. If/when he contacts you, you can be honest. You can say you didn't know about him. You can say you lost touch with his mother and never knew she was pregnant. That's true. You can say she made contact at one point to let you know he existed and that you (both) decided how best to manage you meeting him. Which isn't a lie. She has told you she's opening the lines of communication and you are deciding whether or not to make contact.

You are still in conflict mode. And wondering how to take this woman down a peg or two by letting her son know exactly what she did. Whatever feelings you have towards her need to be put aside if you decide to be any sort of presence in his life. You cannot meet him and immediately start criticising his mother. He loves her. She's all he knows. He will have a loyalty to her that you don't understand. You don't need to lie. But you don't need to drag that child into whatever dynamic is/was there between you and his mother.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119022132#Comment_119022132

“You are still in conflict mode. And wondering how to take this woman down a peg or two by letting her son know exactly what she did.”

Conflict mode? Probably.

But I have explained several times now that I will simply not lie if he asks these questions. I don’t think I am being unreasonable here. I really don’t think that this is vindictive.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119022132#Comment_119022132

I know someone who was in the same situation as OP, never knew his child existed. He would have loved to know his child growing up but the mother didn't want it. Their relationship had ended because she wanted to get married, he didn't. He eventually married someone else and his ex was very bitter. The son was an adult when they eventually met, said he hated not having a father growing up, was bullied in school and always felt different because of it. He thought his father was all sorts of evil because the mother bad-mouthed him. If he had met him and made his own decision not to have contact, that would have been different but he never had that opportunity and believed he was unwanted, a mistake, a secret, ignored. A lot of damage was done by that woman and her extended family to her son's mental health and sense of belonging, wellbeing, value. She was punishing the father and hurt her child in the process.

Women who deny access to fathers because the relationship went sour are very wrong IMO. The child loses out most. Kids need truthful information at the very least and kids entering teen years are not stupid, they can suss things pretty fast especially if the father is a waster/deadbeat. They can decide to have contact or not but it's their decision to make, their right. There's no argument that mothers need to protect their child, but denying a father access, or any type of contact because the mother doesn't want it, is not about the child.

Big Bag of Chips

I will simply not lie if he asks these questions

However. If he ever asks why I didn’t contact him I will tell him the truth. I shouldn’t have to lie because she decided it was her preferred way of handling things.

What's your truth? Because the truth as it stands right now is, you never contacted him because you never knew he existed. That's the truth.

I have a feeling though that the truth you will eventually tell him is his a mother made it clear that you were not to contact her. When the full truth is she said she didn't want any contact with you but she was opening the lines of communication on behalf of her son.

You're getting ahead of yourself anyway, imagining potential future hypothetical conversations. The boy might never ask you the question. Because he'll already have that information by the time he contacts you. He might simply ask you questions about yourself, your life, other family members etc.

You shouldn't plan on starting your relationship with him by accusing his mother of anything.

I completely understand that this is a shock to come out of the blue. But, the boy is not looking for you right now so you have time to come to terms with the news and get your head around it. I wish you well. I hope it works out for you one way or another. Just keep in the front of your mind that they boy is an innocent party in all of this... And for now he's just a boy. Depending on what age you eventually meet him, keep in mind his age, and his maturity at that point. You could be more open with a 20 year old than you should be with a 12 year old for example.

shesty

Nobody asked you to lie.

Idle Passerby

You've been blindsided by some pretty life-changing news so it's understandable your going to go through a process with coming to terms with that.

I don't think the mother is asking or not asking you to do anything at the moment. She's giving you a heads up that someday a boy/man might contact you saying he's your son. She's telling you now because she doesn't want her son to bear the brunt of whatever emotions being told this brings up in you. She doesn't want him to have to take the full force of your shock/anger/regret/denial. She's doing this purely to cushion the blow for her son when/if that day comes.

I think her comment about preferring you not to make contact is also for her son. She wants him to make the decision whether he wants contact with you or not. She doesn't want you suddenly coming into his life before he might be ready for it. This will be down to her own ideas about what you're like as a person. They could be completely wrong after all this time but she can only base her expectations, on her own experience with you.

The assertion that you won't lie to him comes across a bit petty. No one's suggesting that you lie to him. If he asks why you never contacted him, the truth is, you didn't know he existed til he was 12 and when you did find out you got the impression his mother would prefer you didn't contact him so you respected her wishes. She's not, in my opinion, saying "don't contact him". She's saying "I personally would rather you didn't contact him but it's not my choice to make." She's basically saying she, as an individual wants nothing to do with you but she won't stop you or her son forming a relationship if that's what you both want.

Caranica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119022488#Comment_119022488

Have you read the OP's many posts about what kind of bf he was. Certainly not a partner and the kind of "relationship" I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I totally get why a woman wouldn't want her child to meet and potentially be influenced by such a person. Look at how he's reacted and is trying to turn things on her even now.

OP I would advise counseling before any further communication with your ex or her child, you seem to have regressed on whatever progress you thought you had made.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119025713#Comment_119025713

“you seem to have regressed on whatever progress you thought you had made.”

What is that even supposed to mean? Unless you knew me back then you can’t possibly claim that.

I don’t have anything to say to her until she contacts me, as that’s what I said I’d do.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119025616#Comment_119025616

Yes I know this makes sense, and I didn’t write that to her..I wrote it here and not to her...

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119025713#Comment_119025713

No i haven't read those posts and maybe he was a rotten, miserable, sob boyfriend but that doesn't excuse the mother of his child keeping the existence of the child hidden for 12 years, and then when she eventually did drop that bombshell, she said she was opposed to any contact.

What a cruel thing to do, to deny a father knowing he has a son.

Maybe he has changed since 12 years ago. If she was worried that he wouldn't be a great father, or be a bad influence/role model, then she could have involved social workers, arranged supervised visits, restricted contact to a few times a year, birthdays/christmas, involved grandparents or the boys aunts and uncles, agreed to phone calls only, etc etc. To not tell the OP for 12 years and deliberately prevent any contact between them is just wicked. How would she explain her actions if anything had happened to the OP, a car accident or something and the child never got to meet his father.

Big Bag of Chips

mrslancaster, life is not black or white. Decisions are not right or wrong. There are many many shades of grey and nuances. The OP himself admits that the mother was right to not tell him at the time. He was an abusive, controlling boyfriend. He openly admits this on this forum where he regularly replies to threads from people looking for advice on being in relationships with abusive, controlling partners. It is fair to assume - it may not be true, we'll never know because he wasn't given the opportunity - but it is fair to assume that had he known she was pregnant he would have tried and maybe succeeded in forcing her to have an abortion.

You're talking about involving grandparents, when the OP has made it clear that he would never want the child to meet his parents. If he had known about the child, and denied his family a relationship, possibly for very good reason, would you think that's wrong?

If she was worried that he wouldn't be a great father, or be a bad influence/role model, then she could have involved social workers, arranged supervised visits, restricted contact to a few times a year, birthdays/christmas, involved grandparents or the boys aunts and uncles, agreed to phone calls only.

This is all a lovely idea in theory. But when dealing with a controlling bully it's not likely to be as easy as all that in practice. A person who likes to control everything will not make life easy for who they perceive as a weaker person. A mother trying to bring up a child on her own, 24/7, trying to boundaries in place, restrict access to a few times a year, or to supervised access (supervised by who?), or phone call only access is more likely to find herself fighting a constant battle with someone who does not like being told what to do by someone else. That person will look for control, in whatever way they can. Demanding access at times. Refusing to turn up at other times. Having her child used as a means to continue to control long after the relationship should have ended. Having a controlling person in your life means being controlled. Demanding, being unreasonable, shifting goal posts. I think the OP is honest enough with himself to know that the woman was right to not tell him. He knows he would not have become a different person just because he found out he she was pregnant. Indeed, if he knew at the time there's every chance the boy would never have been born.

I understand what you are trying to say, but you are outlining a hypothetical life and relationship that you imagine this boy and his father could have had. A simple life where everyone played their part impeccably. The reality, by the OP's own admission, would have been very very different. In an ideal world both parents would be involved in bringing up their children. Both parents would work together to make life good and happy and easy and conflict free for their child. Unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world and sometimes it is better for children to not be exposed to one or other parent for any number of reasons. Being present at the conception doesn't automatically mean that the person deserves to be present in the child's life. In most cases obviously it works out fine. In a small number of cases the child is better off ultimately not being exposed to a person with the ability and the inclination to abuse and control.

Idle Passerby

If the boy ever does get in touch, which may be years down the road. You don't have to have any communication at all with his mother. Take your feelings towards her completely out of the equation and treat him as the individual he is.

I have friends who had absent/unknown father's growing up. Some asked questions as teenagers and never felt the need to make contact. Some made contact and were dismissed/rejected. It's a fraught situation for everyone with no clear map for how to proceed or how everyone will interact. You just have to do your best to be as decent as possible and try not to make anything worse for anyone.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119026829#Comment_119026829

I will try my best. I had a think while she made it clear that she doesn’t want contact I would like to know more about him and his life. I guess she has to assume I am still the way I was back then so I understand why she feels this way.

I don’t want to wedge myself into their lives but I would like to know more about him and stay away unless he reaches out.

I’m sure she won’t be happy to hear from me but maybe we can bury the hatchet and just keep it civil. I do not want to cause harm.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119027419#Comment_119027419

I think this is a really good post.

You should write to the mother in a similar tone. That you are very curious about your son but you understand its best you wait for him to contact you as it should be on his terms.

But ask that she keeps you involved at least. Send you photos of your son growing up. She doesn't want contact with you but dropping photos in the mail a few times a year isn't too much to ask from your side.

Showing that you have an interest, want contact/info but yet are willing to put yourself second behind a son you haven't met shows that you have grown.

Big Bag of Chips

I don’t want to wedge myself into their lives but I would like to know more about him and stay away unless he reaches out.

I’m sure she won’t be happy to hear from me but maybe we can bury the hatchet and just keep it civil. I do not want to cause harm.

Jequ0n, this response shows a maturity even since your earlier posts. I wouldn't be so sure that she won't be happy to hear from you. I think depending on the tone of the reply she receives she will in fact be relieved to hear from you.

I do not want to cause harm.

Keep this as your mantra. Think about the words, and think about the people you can affect and you won't go too far wrong. Good luck.

Idle Passerby

That's a really good attitude to have. I think showing even a tentative interest in him while respecting boundaries will stand in your favour if/when your son ever does make contact. Best of luck!

Jequ0n

Thanks all. I appreciate I used this forum to avoid hitting her with all the anger.

I can’t change who I am, or how I think. I will always be like this, but I can adjust my behaviour at this stage though it takes a lot of effort. Back then I would have flown off the handle.

I guess in a way, and keeping with the pattern of my behaviour, I used you all to get past the anger. So I guess I should say sorry and thanks.

@Jequ0n

@Jequ0n - I commend your honesty. I may not agree with a lot of what you post, but I think you're honest with yourself.

As a parent who has raised a child alone from day one, (the father chose not to be involved) - my take on this is the child has reached the age where he is starting to ask his mother the difficult questions. He is pre-adolescent, probably starting secondary school this year and there are a lot of changes for them at this age.

FWIW, I think the mother did the right thing in contacting you in advance, if she thinks her child is going to reach out to you himself. I also think she doesn't want anything from you, and is only concerned with what is best for her child.

I think @Big Bag of Chips has offered you some excellent advice here. I really don't have anything more to add, other than to say that I was honest with my daughter about her origins. She always knew who her father was (by name) and that I could contact him if ever she wanted to meet him. However, she decided in her early teens that she was not interested in meeting him or having any kind of relationship with him. She is now in her mid twenties, and her feelings have never changed.

Neyite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119030787#Comment_119030787

It's far better that you used the forum to work out your feelings than on people in your life. 😊

The very best of luck in this. Hope it works out well for all involved.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119034665#Comment_119034665

Yeah apparently that’s what he has been told as well (that I didn’t want to be involved), which in this case wasn’t true. I’m “ok” with this somehow. At least I understand now why she reached out before I was to get a message from an angry boy one day.

Thanks.