Saorview problems?

muffler

So I think I read that Saorview channels are carried on 2 different muxes (?). At the moment I can view RTE1, RTE1 +1, RTE2 +1, VM3, RTE JUnior (I think). All the other channels are either missing or the picture just breaks up. Im only about 1.4km from the transmitter with a clear line of sight and have 2 aerials. One is for picking up the terrestrial Freeview from NI and given the proximity to the Saorview transmitter also doubles up for it. The other aerial is for Saorview only but in both cases I am experiencing the loss of signal as stated.

I find it hard to believe that both aerials and associated cables could be faulty in some way so Im thinking that maybe there is something wrong with the transmitter. From past experience its a complete waste of time contacting Saorview as you just get fobbed off. The transmitter is at Ballybofey, Donegal.

Any suggestions or ideas as to what the issue might be?

mackersdublin

Mux 1 carries RTE2 and the other channels you can't receive

Mux 2 carries RTE One and the other channels you listed

It must be a Aerial problem if you are only receiving One Mux correctly

There's no mention on Saorview's website or their Twitter a/c about any works

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119015358#Comment_119015358

Thanks for the reply.

Normally Id agree that its an aerial problem (and could well be so) but I find it odd that both aerials could have issues. Admittedly one is pointing at a Freeview transmitter in NI but this aerial was always able to pick up the Saorview channels. The strange thing is that it comes and goes. Picture / reception is fine for weeks at a time then it breaks up for a couple of weeks and after that is rinse and repeat.

Would weather conditions play a part? In the past I have always had problems during "high pressure" periods in the weather and indeed Saorview did confirm at one stage that atmospheric conditions would affect reception.

The Cush

Are the 2 aerial feeds combined? If so, how?

Issues like this can also be caused by a bad connection/equipment somewhere in the setup. In the last few days here my brother was having issues with Saorview reception, fault narrowed down to a number of faulty outputs on a passive 6 output splitter.

petronius

Polarity (vertical / Horizontal) could also be an issue? depends on which ariel you are pointing to

https://ukfree.tv/maps/saorview

https://ukfree.tv/transmitters/tv/Limavady

https://ukfree.tv/transmitters/tv/Brougher_Mountain

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119018027#Comment_119018027

Both aerials have separate cables going to different rooms. One goes to a TV in the sitting room and the other to a TV in the kitchen. Both aerials are fixed to the chimney.

Of course there is every chance that the aerials and / or cables have developed faults but the puzzling part is that both have developed reception issues at the same time and while the current problems are ongoing there is every possibility that things will return to normal within a week or so based on past experiences. If things do improve again then the problems are not on my end. If they dont then I will need to get someone in to sort it out.

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119020537#Comment_119020537

What are the signal strength/quality readings like on both TVs for Saorview?

Ger Roe

In one post OP, you asked about weather conditions... if it has been a problem in the past with high pressure, it could be so again. Here in Wicklow and aimed at the Kippure transmitter, we used to have fairly regular summer atmos issues with the old analog service. Since the changeover it has been far less frequent, but there have been a handful of times when high pressure has caused interference from other out of area signals (coming from UK). They have been so infrequent and short term that they are not an issue, but it can still happen.

The other potential source of the problem might be some local equipment causing interference on the frequency for one of the muxes. This could be something very local (even within the house), or it might be more widespread - has anyone else around you had the same problem recently?

Another thing to check ... are you using the correct antenna? Some of the transmitter sites have changed frequency (antenna group) since launch.

This is almost certainly a reception, rather than a transmission issue.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119021849#Comment_119021849

Just a little clarification on my set up. I'll refer to the Freeview and Saorview as FV and SV. There are quite a few cables at the back of the TV in the sitting room ie. satellite and aerial cables which is the main point of entry for the lot. The FV cable comes out from the wall socket and into a booster/splitter yoke with 4 outputs from it. 3 of those go back upstairs to bedrooms and the fourth one goes out to the kitchen located directly behind the sitting room. None of the upstairs outputs are used these days.

From what I can see the SV cable coming into the sitting room goes directly into a Freeview box (Manhatten recording box) and is then connected to the TV via HDMI cable. Just to note that there's probably only about 10 degree difference in the direction of the 2 aerials on the rooftop so both aerials do pick up FV and SV.

Signal test on TV in sitting room (signal coming through FV box.) Channel 44... Strength = 93-94, Quality = 66-68. Channel 47 ... Strength = 98, Quality = 100.

Signal test on TV in kitchen (FV aerial feed/split as described above) Channell 44 ... Strength = 74-78, Quality = 67 - 100. Channel 47 ... Strength = 93, Quality = 100.

Finally and not surprisingly all SV channels are working fine this afternoon. Hadnt checked them since last night when most were off.

Digifriendly

I have found keeping aerial cables completely separate from all other leads and cables can make a difference especially if signal is on cliff edge as is the case with at least one of my Saorview muxes.

muffler

I checked with my neighbour yesterday evening and she is having the same issues. Because of those issues in the past she got 2 new aerials fitted less than 2 years ago but it didn't help.

There is never a problem with the Freeview reception so would that not rule out any suggestion that the equipment is faulty?

Elvis Hammond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119026827#Comment_119026827

Did the same guy fit the neighbour's aerials? Probably installer shortcomings, if that's the case; I wonder were alternative sites tried, like Letterkenny or Holywell Hill.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119027336#Comment_119027336

2 different installers used. Im not sure if there is a transmitter about Letterkenny but if there was it wouldnt be possible to receive a signal from there due to the hilly terrain. Holywell Hill would be the same.

The FV mast in Strabane is about 20km away and the SV transmitter is 1.4km. As stated earlier there is never a problem with the FV signals but is there a chance that the SV signal is too strong given the proximity to the transmitter?

Elvis Hammond

Ballybofey is fairly low powered, so I'd doubt overload would be a problem solely due to being that distance away. Letterkenny has 20 times the power, Holywell 200 times, so might have a chance even if terrain isn't 100% favourable.

dxhound2005

https://ukfree.tv/transmitters/tv/Ballybofey

"The symbol shows the location of the Ballybofey (Republic of Ireland) transmitter. The bright green areas shown where the signal from this transmitter is strong, dark green areas are poorer signals. Those parts shown in yellow may have interference on the same frequency from other masts."

There is quite a bit of yellow on that map. I don't know where else Channels 44 and 47 would be coming from to cause interference. Replace Ballybofey in the URL with Holywell_Hill and Letterkenny to see what those maps show. Obviously try those transmitters anyway to see what you get.

https://www.2rn.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/2RN-DTT-Television-Transmission-Network-Sept-2019-Rev.1.2.pdf

The Cush

2 separate aerials and neighbour having similar issues on the same frequency would seem to indicate an external problem with one of the muxes.

Is it possible to access the SV aerial yourself and realign it to the transmitter? The aerial should be vertically polarised.

A Group K is now recommended, what aerial is installed?

Elvis Hammond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058244179/saorview-problems

The 'clear line of sight' bit didn't register with me first time around, & at that distance you'll be able to actually see the mast. Now, it probably won't be putting out full power in all directions; could be very little some ways, depending on its intended coverage area. What does Saorview's coverage checker say about your location?

Getting back to signal overload, I'd say it would only be a problem if there's an amplifier in there you don't know about.

Frequency changes were mentioned; I think it's always used chs. 44 & 47 for Saorview, although analogue was 54, 58, & 64.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119030332#Comment_119030332

As Im located just 1.4km from the Ballybofey transmitter I am in the bright green area. I checked the Letterkenny and Holywell Hill coverage areas and Im not in their catchment area so it would be impossible to get a signal from either.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119030815#Comment_119030815

Sorry, no idea what type of aerial it is but I'll get a photo later and put it up.Just as Im typing i went to the Google streetview and grabbed a shot. Hopefully thats clear enough. My aerials are on the left and the neighbours on the right. There's 2 FV and 1 SV aerial on my chimney. The 2nd FV aerial has been redundant for years. As to going up on the roof ... not a chance!

Elvis Hammond

You must be to the NW of the Ballybofey tx then, going by that, which would be right in its intended service area.

You say the aerial feeds aren't combined, which I suppose would be due to Strabane's pre-700MHz clearance channels, so the boxes on the masts must be amplifiers for Strabane?

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119031004#Comment_119031004

The SV coverage checker is just stalling for me but I have looked at this in the past and I get / should get a perfect signal from the Ballybofey mast.

Not sure about the amplifier. There is one for the FV but not for the SV. if thats what you are asking. The channel numbers have been the same (44 & 47) for a long time.

On a general note the SV signals were all going well yesterday but today its back to just being able to see RTE1, VM3 and whatever other channels on the mux.

Im reluctant to contact Saorview as I have found them to be pretty useless in past dealings. However I might check with a couple of other neighbours to see what they are experiencing and if they have the same issues then it might be time to organise a wee petition.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119032102#Comment_119032102

I would be located NW of the mast alright. The boxes you mention on the poles have been there for a long time. I never really knew what they were for ... actually I thought they were used just to shield a cable connection from the weather. That sums up my knowledge of these things.

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119032110#Comment_119032110

Saorview will probably tell you to contact a local aerial installer to check out the setup but they might have some operational info on the transmitter too.

I wonder if a single hi-gain aerial could replace all 3 aerials on the roof, removing some of those cables and connections.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119032552#Comment_119032552

I'll knock on a couple of other neighbours doors this week to see what their experience is. If they have the same problems I might organise a wee petition/letter to Saorview. I think its probably safe to say at this stage that the issues are not of my / our doing so I wouldnt be happy about forking out money for a new installation when it wouldnt improve matters just like my neighbour experienced.

Contacting a local installer was what Saorview told me in the past but if its their problem then I think they need to sort it.

Glaceon

You might have better luck with 2RN rather than Saorview as they operate the network. nmc@2rn.ie or 01 208 2259.

muffler

Thanks for that. Hopefully they might be a bit more helpful.

muffler

So today I turned on the telly to watch the lunchtime news and RTE1, which has been fine over the last couple of weeks, was terrible. Checked VM3 and it was the same. Then I discovered that the other channels I was having bother viewing recently were all OK again. Just to make things more confusing ALL the SV channels appear to be working fine this evening??? The mind or the aerial boggles!

We had heavy rain all morning and right through to late afternoon so I have no idea if that had any bearing on matters.

dxhound2005

You took signals readings before. It would be a good to make a note of the readings regularly. A "perfect" picture is just the same from a 100% signal as one just above the level where it breaks up or disappears. If you do decide to change anything, you would need to see the before and after readings to judge the effect.

There haven't been threads recently, but there are a good few going back a while where one of the Mux's goes missing. Depending on the individual set up, and the transmitter involved it can be 1 or 2. It is always down to the particular set up, not a transmitter fault.

selfbuilder1

Just wondering have you got to the bottom of this. I am having the same problem in Mayo with the signal from Maghera. I am able to receive RTE1 and the other channels that are on MUX 2 but all the channels on MUX 1 are either missing or break up constantly. This has only happened recently and i can't figure out what the problem is.

muffler

Unfortunately I didn't get any more done about it. I've been meaning to call with a few other neighbours to see how theirs is doing but haven't got that far yet. Its hit and miss for the last while with the likes of RTE1, VM3 etc going well one day with the others "off" and then a couple of days later the roles are reversed. No logic to it.

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119170091#Comment_119170091

As this only happened recently I would look at something in your setup, bad connection somewhere, aerial misaligned, corrosion in the aerial to cable connection, faulty splitter/amp etc.