What fees are payable by tenant?

Gamergurll

Just after Christmas our LL gave us a one week notice of rent increase because he wants us to pay the property tax, my partner insisted on paying it so as not to upset the apple cart, apparently. Anyway, landlord called yesterday and told my partner he is adding 40 to the rent again to cover the prtb fee, is this something we have to pay? There's no where else available to rent at the moment if he wants to evict us but I'm tired of last minute charges when I'm already stretched paying rent

Allinall

There is no way you should be paying either the property tax or the RTB charges.

He can't evict you if you refuse to pay.

Don't pay it, and make a complaint to the RTB outlining his demands that you pay his costs.

awec

You paid your landlord's property tax? Really?

Gamergurll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118983350#Comment_118983350

He disguised it as a rent increase but told us in person what the increase was for, I understand there can be rent increases but the short notice bothered me, this new charge is a last minute thing aswell. He let's us keep pets so a huge advantage but rent is now higher than local rents

L1011

The landlord is liable for both those fees.

If they are disguising them as rent increases, they cannot increase rent more than once a year; and only by a maximum of 2% in RPZs - which are most populated areas of the country

Gamergurll

Sorry, the rent increase was at the start of January, but this new Ptrb one he wants to call and collect in cash. He also owns the 6 neighbouring houses and I can't speak for the earlier rent increase but asked a few of them about this fee and they are all paying it apparently, so I will be the awkward tenent for not paying it 🙄

Gamergurll

It's not an rpz but rent was 4% Inc anyway

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118983261#Comment_118983261

Unless it was included in the lease/tenancy agreement. It's not something a landlord can just decide to charge after a tenancy has started.

The landlord is liable to pay the LPT to Revenue and the registration fee to the RTB but some are passing those costs on. I have seen leases with all kinds of charges included. Admin fees for unpaid s/o's or where rent is paid late. Fees for an extra set of keys or a replacement set. Fees for regular garden maintenance. Fees for deep clean at the end of the tenancy. Only rent increases and deposit amounts are restricted.

Caranica

Rent increases require proper notice periods, not a week. It shouldn't have been paid, you can still lodge a case with the rtb though.

Atlantic Dawn

Some people really don't have a clue of the basics of being a landlord.

Grumpypants

RTB charge €90 to register a new tenant but it's not an annual fee. Not sure what this €40 is.

Is it 40 a month or a one off?.

Ask for a receipt. Should put a stop to it.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986639#Comment_118986639

It's not a rent increase though, it's a direct cost that the landlord is passing on. If it isn't a term included in the lease agreement, then the landlord can't re-charge it whether he gives one week or 90 days notice.

OP, you say that the extra demand was disguised as a rent increase but the landlord told you it was a re-charge for the LPT in January and this recent amount is a re-charge to cover the RTB costs so he doesn't see it as a rent increase.

You're lucky you're not being charged a quarterly fee for your pets, apparently that's happening now as well as fees for parking spaces. I saw a lease a few weeks ago that had re-charges for insurance and an apartment lease where tenants are being re-charged for service charges. It's vicious.

OP you need to read the lease / tenancy agreement you signed and if there is no term to cover these re-charges then you can query them or refuse to pay them.

DFB-D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986665#Comment_118986665

It is rent.

wench

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986653#Comment_118986653

The RTB have changed to annual €40 registration, even if the tenants haven't changed.

https://www.rtb.ie/news/landlords-take-notetenancies-must-now-be-registered-annually-with-the-rtb

Gamergurll

Well in relation to pets I would have no issue at all with paying a fee for them if that was something he asked for, mine are not destructive (yes yes, all pet owners say that! 😂), to be honest compared to my child they are a walk in the park, the house was a shell when I moved in anyway minus fitted kitchen bathroom and carpets so most that can be damaged is my own but again I would pay a fee in advance if asked because these are my problems.

I didn't sign a lease agreement but can a contract sign away rights as a tenant? Fees for lost keys etc are fair but prtb fees, I see there are penalties for a landlord not registering and I mean what, can he then come after me in turn..?

40 is a one off sorry about that. But if its not mine to pay its opening the door to other things, the heating system needs fixed before winter will I be charged for those

deirdre1976

ABSOLUTELY NO WAY PAY THE EXTRA MONEY.

Contact PRTB straight away.

How long are ye tenants in the house?

deirdre1976

Once off or not its HIS responsibility to pay that bill..

deirdre1976

You can only have rent review for an increase every 2 years.

Then the increase will depend if ye in a Rent Property Zone or not.

deirdre1976

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986652#Comment_118986652

Totally Agree.. All they see is the €€€€€€

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986652#Comment_118986652

In fairness the Tenant should know about this stuff also.

I suspect the Landlord knows exactly what they are doing.

Caranica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118989643#Comment_118989643

RTB for years now 😉

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118990065#Comment_118990065

Open to correction but I think it was the PRTB from 2004 to 2015, 14yrs. So its been RTB for 7yrs. I still call it the PRTB.

Caranica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118990516#Comment_118990516

Website is rtb.ie which is what the OP needs. There's no redirect if you put the P in. You already admitted your language is 7 years of of date

OP get on to the RTB, your landlord is trying to pull a fast one for the second time this year, he got away with the first one but it can be rolled back.

Flinty997

I don't think it makes any difference. It will be found, and be obvious either way.

RTB has been mentioned around 30 times on this thread already.

https://www.google.com/search?q=PRTB&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBIE968IE968&oq=PRTB&aqs=chrome.0.69i59l2j46i10i175i199i512j0i10i131i433j0i512l2j0i10j0i512l2.1328j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

handlemaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986653#Comment_118986653

Landlords Take Note. Annual tenancy registration comes into effect from the 4th of April 2022. This means that landlords must register their tenancy every year, within one month of the anniversary of when that tenancy began.

The DayDream

It's absolute BS. What landlords are getting away with in this country is scandalous.

But you're over a barell here. Ive been looking for 2 years for somewhere to rent that will take pets. No one will any more. My dog is quiet and housetrained, 10 years old and just lays about unless there's a walkie or ball game going. But they just don't want to know

I would still open a dispute though. The 40 quid i could stomach for the tradeoff of having pets allowed but no way am i paying the property tax on a property I don't own. You're already paying for them to be able to own it.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986847#Comment_118986847

Honestly OP, sounds like your landlord knows he can only increase the rent under certain rules that's why he didn't increase the rent, he's passing on his costs to you. It's not great and nobody likes it.

Contact the RTB or Threshold, they'll advise you. A lease can't sign away your rights but it can have additional terms in it and a contract can be written or verbal. A written lease setting out all the terms & conditions is a good idea so both parties know where they stand and the landlord can't decide to change things later on.

The landlord is responsible for fixing the heating system.

Gamergurll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118994701#Comment_118994701

Not my style sorry.. Seen it happen with my grandparents house a few years ago when they passed and left an equal share to all the siblings, they couldn't face selling it so put it up for rent, my dad being the only one in Dublin handled the rental. Seen him damn near have a breakdown not only over nearly 2 years of no rent which my uncles were roaring at him for but the stress of court dates and seeing my grandparents dearly loved home destroyed, where tenants pulled down doors, put holes in walls, and dugs up their cherished back garden which they both spent their retirement dedicated to, the "lease" stated there would be monthly visits from a gardener which tenants were happy with. All by a middle aged couple with a child who couldn't look more normal if they tried. There's a lesson to learn I'm sure but joys of being sentimental and having siblings who can't quite agree on anything 🙄

Anyway I suppose it's all gone very off topic but the whole system is a joke, even if my landlord is pulling a fast one my rent is always paid on time, I'm very houseproud and treat this place like my own. I'm unhappy with a few things and have been keeping my eyes open for somewhere else but there is nothing, the local shop has ads up with wanted adverts, same with the local fb group.. This one horse town is popular 😝

Gamergurll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995887#Comment_118995887

Thank you, nothing like a lease was ever discussed, verbally was just a standard pay rent on time, normal stuff, I don't think my LL knows or cares much for regulations tbh, but I popped in here to make sure I was right about this not being my responsibility before I approach him :)

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986652#Comment_118986652

Id say he knows right well but is gambling on the tenant not being aware

what a cheap gombeen hustler

tell him where to go OP , tenants have very strong rights , dont be shy about asserting yourself here , apart from the RTB site , citizens rights site has plenty of useful info for both tenants and landlords

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118994629#Comment_118994629

shameless people with no standards or class will try getting away with all sorts of things in all sorts of different areas if you allow them

the rules that protect tenants are very strong in this country but tenants need to learn their rights , plenty of lowlife tenants as well , this landlord here sounds like a complete louse

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996569#Comment_118996569

I don't think my LL knows or cares much for regulations tbh

A LL who owns at least seven houses definitely knows the regs quite well!. They may not care too much about them though when they reckon they will get away with it

magicbastarder

does it matter what fees the landlord does or doesn't tell his or her tenant their rent is paying for, just that any increases are properly communicated in a timely fashion, and within allowed limits?

i.e. a landlord saying 'your rent is paying for the cost of me owning the building' is kinda a given? they could say your rent is paying for their holiday to alicante, which is also true...

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996569#Comment_118996569

There are still landlords who think the rules don't apply to them and think they can do what they like, especially when so few rentals are available.

Check that the tenancy is registered with RTB.

I've read many times on boards that a written lease is a waste of time but imo its crazy not to have the rental contract in writing because it protects both parties, similar to an employment contract. Employers can't put anything illegal in a contract but they can have specific terms that apply to their company that an employee can agree to or not, before they take the job. When the employment contract is signed, both are bound by it plus all employment legislation.

Same thing with a lease which is the contract to rent the accommodation, it has all the terms spelled out. If the tenant signs it, thats the agreement. The lease plus all rental legislation is binding on both parties.

The problem is that in both employment and rental situations there is so much legislation that it's mind boggling for both sides and mistakes happen all the time, that's what the RTB are supposed to mediate on, the same role as the WRC for employment disputes.

There's also shyster landlords and chancy tenants, the same way there are dodgy employers and waster workers. Always some who try to play the system so its sensible to protect your own interests.

The days of moving into a rental with just a handshake are gone.

The DayDream

So you have no lease. That's why he feels free to tell you what the hike is for, he doesn't do anything official so he is almost certainly not registered.

Tell him you can't afford the increase because your hours are getting cut at work. (Ie: if he wants to play 'here's why im under pressure and you need to pay me more, return fire in kind). If he says that's not my problem then say the property tax isn't my problem.

Then tell him the PRTB have been contacted and say that tenants are not the onles liable for property tax it's the property owner, and that they were asking me to ask you if the tenancy has been registered.

Gamergurll

Bumping rather than starting a new thread because this crap is ongoing..

I'm afraid to post too much info incase the landlord sees it and knows its me 🙄

But basically as I explained the landlord raised the rent to cover his property tax, that was explained away as a rent increase. He came last month with a new contract for us to sign but included another increase to cover his prtb fee. We swallowed it because it was just a few euro extra a month and if we rock the boat with him he will try to evict us, we will end up homeless because there are 0 houses here to rent,

But he just called up again, apparently the prtb have been in touch with him looking for proof of house insurance, he tells us none of his houses are insured but he will be getting insurance and raising the rent again next month to pay for it. He also wants all this money in cash, I claim hap because my wage doesn't get me far but he won't let me register any of these payments through it. We have no hot water supply and a broken freezer which he wants nothing to do with. I'm really lost at this stage because he has adult kids who he will have no problem claiming want to move in to kick us out, he has said already if he falls out with us we are gone. Is there nothing at all I can do in this?

L1011

The RTB don't care if places are insured or not, but he cannot pass on that charge to you nor raise the rent again this quickly

Landlord is a chancer who now thinks you'll take any excuse and give him the money.

Termination notices can only be given in specific circumstances and the notice periods are now very, very long.

Gamergurll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119424297#Comment_119424297

So do you think he is making that bit up about the RTB looking for insurance details? He has 6 other houses and he's doing this with all the tenants who just swallow it and say nothing so us fighting it doesn't help our case 🙄

L1011

Yes, he's making it up. And he can't change the rent this quickly since a prior increase under any circumstances anyway

Claw Hammer

Rented dwellings are supposed to be insured and it is a breach of landlord obligations not to be insured. It is generally a matter for the local authority to ensure compliance with the regulations but the RTB can also get in on the act.

Gamergurll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119424383#Comment_119424383

I didn't think of it in worry of this but I have contents insurance, the house is unfurnished and I have some valuables, that will affect any claim I have? He told us he had insurance but seems like he was lying

Claw Hammer

The landlord is supposed to have building insurance.

Residential tenancies Act

12.—(1) In addition to the obligations arising by or under any other enactment, a landlord of a dwelling shall—

(c) subject to subsection (3), effect and maintain a policy of insurance in respect of the structure of the dwelling, that is to say a policy— (i) that insures the landlord against damage to, and loss and destruction of, the dwelling, and (ii) that indemnifies, to an amount of at least €250,000, the landlord against any liability on his or her part arising out of the ownership, possession and use of the dwelling

tvjunki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119424242#Comment_119424242

It could be the council have asked for proof of insurance. If your lease is just up and a new lease is being prepared the council could be asking for it as well as tax clearance cert for your landlord. If you are getting hap you can pay more than your allowance but you need to let the council know. Get the landlord to sign a rent book for you.

If the water is not working then ask him to repair it. The same with freezer. Put this in writing and not just a conversation.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119424242#Comment_119424242

The landlord has to fix the hot water and fridge/freezer. Agree with tvjunki, you should put it in writing. Also, if you ring Threshold, they'll advise you if your landlord can pass on other costs - if you don't have a written lease your landlord could say you agreed to it before you rented the place and he just didnt charge you before now, there's some dodgy landlords around.

This kind of thing seems to be happening a lot now, I saw several leases with a list of things that could be recharged to tenants, eg landlords insurance, rtb fees, block service charges, utilities, garden maintenance, boiler service, repair tenant damage, replacement locks & keys, parking space, admin fees, legal fees for multi occupant change, pet charges etc. so your landlord is not the only one passing on costs. Rent in some of those leases was for the housing including white goods and floor/window coverings only, anything else was extra. They were signed by tenants before they moved in though.

It looks like unlimited residential tenancies will be similar to a commercial lease, the tenant rents the unit and pays for everything else - a 'ryanair' rental market 😂😂.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119424242#Comment_119424242

I get where you are coming from and the landlord is being messy but he is doing you a favour. If he ups the rent due to increased costs and does it correctly as he should the rent increases would be double what he is charging you. Every €1 increase in cost that is not tax deductible would require €2+ in increase rent due to the tax he would pay.

It annoys the hell out of me when landlords don't fix basic stuff like appliances and heating. You can after time buy them yourself and bill him but as you said it sounds like they wouldn't take kindly to it. He would have a hard time saying it is for family use after refusing to to do basic maintenance

Gamergurll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119426919#Comment_119426919

Maybe but if I go into the council and register a rent increase to be added to my Hap surely he can't call back to me and say he needs to increase it again because he hasn't allowed for tax in that increase?

And my problem is these random charges he's adding out of nowhere for things that should be in the rent in the first place

To the poster above sorry I can't seem to quote twice, I had my own washing machine and dishwasher moving in and he obviously provided an oven and hob but the fridge freezer was left by previous tenent, he's explained when asked that none of these white goods are his problem. He didn't provide window covering either and didn't want to repaint after previous tenants, we are to blame for accepting it I suppose but we were desperate for a place and he could have just skipped over us and given it to someone else anyway. He wants a rent increase but he isn't playing ball with us.

mrslancaster

OP, your landlord sounds like one of the old style who either doesn't know the rules or ignores the ones that don't suit. You can pay for repairs as Ray said above but if it doesn't get refunded, you'd have to open an rtb dispute. If you deduct it from the rent, you'd be in rent arrears and could get a termination notice, so not a good idea. If you sign the new lease, at least you'd have everything in writing and the landlord can't keep changing things when he feels like it.

Gamergurll

I can't deduct from Hap anyway, they direct debit my bank account and send payment from there, I don't want to do anything like that anyway and make problems :)

My main concern is an eviction notice because I know this will turn messy but I don't want to be a doormat, my rent is always my first bill to be paid but I just about get by each week and rent has to be strictly budgeted for, I can't do that when it's becoming random amounts 😏

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427867#Comment_119427867

He should be only increasing the rent once a year but if RPZ 1 every 2 years. As you are getting HAP it doesn't effect you about the tax so just insist it all above board and taxed. He can raise the rent and the reason never has to be given other than market rates as proof it is inline.

Regardless of where the appliances came from he is obligated to provide them. Fridge with a freezer compartment is required to be provided by him no matter what he says along with a microwave, cooker and fire blanket.

He didn't want to paint and doesn't have to. You did see the place as it stood so curtains and similar are not standard requirements.

Don't live in fear of what he might do. Send him a letter with all the issues and an expected date for them to be addressed. If he refuses or anything simply bring a case against him. He can't kick you out and will at least 2 years before he could. Your expectations are completely reasonable and it is unlikely that he would give you proper notice the first time even if he tried.

Get the HAP people to inspect it might be easier

geniejews

Contact Threshold, they can take an RTB case and represent you, the Statute of Limitation can go back 6 years for invalid rent reviews

Amendment of section 19 of Act of 2004

6. Section 19 of the Act of 2004 is amended—

(a) in subsection (4), by the substitution of “Subject to subsections (4A) and (5)” for “Subject to subsection (5)”,

(b) by the insertion of the following subsections after subsection (4):

“(4A) Notwithstanding subsection (4), and subject to subsection (5), in setting the rent under a tenancy of a dwelling in a rent pressure zone in respect of which the landlord serves a notice under section 22 on or after the coming into operation of section 6 of the Residential Tenancies (No. 2) Act 2021—

(a) an amount of rent shall not be provided for that increases the rent last set by more than any rent increase calculated in accordance with subsection (4B), or

(b) an amount of rent shall not be provided for that increases the rent last set where a calculation is made, in accordance with subsection (4B), that no increase in the rent last set has occurred.

(4B) Any increase in the rent last set shall be calculated by—

(a) calculating as a percentage any difference between the HICP value that applied on the date the rent was last set and the HICP value that applies on the new date, and

(b) applying the amount of the percentage calculated under paragraph (a) to the rent last set.

(4C) The Board shall—

(a) establish and maintain a rent pressure zone calculator to calculate any increase in rent in a rent pressure zone in accordance with the method set out in subsection (4B), and

(b) publish and keep up to date a table of HICP values published by the Central Statistics Office.

(4D) The Minister, for the purposes of subsections (4A) to (4C), may prescribe—

(a) the means by which the rent pressure zone calculator referred to in subsection (4C)(a) shall operate to accurately calculate any increase in rent in a rent pressure zone by applying the HICP values to the rent,

(b) the information to be furnished in the table referred to in subsection (4C)(b),

(c) the form and manner of publication by the Board of that calculator and table, and

(d) an index or indices, containing data corresponding to HICP values, as may be published by the Central Statistics Office to be used for the purposes of the calculation under subsection (4B).”,

(c) in subsection (5), by the substitution of “Subsections (4) and (4A) do not apply—” for “Subsection (4) does not apply—”,

(d) in subsection (6), by the substitution of “subsections (3), (4) and (4A)” for “subsections (3) and (4)”,

(e) in subsection (6A), by the substitution of “subsection (4) or, as the case may be, (4A)” for “subsection (4) ”,

(f) in subsection (7), by the insertion of the following definitions:

“ ‘HICP values’ means the values contained in the most recent data available monthly in the All-Items Harmonised Index of Consumer Prices in relation to Ireland and published monthly by the Central Statistics Office in accordance with Regulation (EU) 2016/7921 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 11 May 2016 on harmonised indices of consumer prices and the house price index, and repealing Council Regulation (EC) No. 2494/95;

‘new date’ shall be the date of publication by the Board under subsection (4C) of the table of HICP values that occurs most recently prior to the service of a notice under section 22 by the landlord on the tenant;”.

geniejews

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119424242#Comment_119424242

The RTB have no interest whether the l/lis insured or not, it is the HAP Unit that requires this as proof of ownership for the HAP payment, think you got your wires crossed on this issue