Moving back into my rented house as seperating from wife.

Visconti

Looking for legal advice. My wife has given me a month to move out its a bitter breakup. I have no chance of staying at home.

I have sorted my statutory declaration and notice of 28 days termination of tenancy notice. Im genuinely not going to be letting out the property again and know the repercussions of not offering the property back to tenants.

The services are still registered to me and both gas and electricity is PAYG. The tenants have been there 3 years. My question is simple if they plan to overhold and refuse to move out LEGALLY can i move into the house with them ? I still have keys and am on good terms with neighbours etc

Do I have to present in a hostel or somewhere as homeless or can I move into the property i worked hard for ? PRTB dont seem to have an answer for this and all laws seem to favour squatters and delinquent tenants rather than being fair.

TIA

More bad news unfortunately, if they are there 3 yrs, your tenants are legally entitled to 180 days notice, even if their lease agreement says 28 days.

https://www.rtb.ie/ending-a-tenancy/notice-periods-that-a-landlord-should-give?gclid=Cj0KCQjw6pOTBhCTARIsAHF23fJH3wm32Pn0VsGNuzUEN3CLJJeADw_9FMxWUnDdcPhMYwrMMCE6vZMaAgDJEALw_wcB

Visconti

Even if I need the house for personal use ? With signed declaration ?

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118970955#Comment_118970955

Yes.

Is there a spare bedroom you could move it to?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058243070/moving-back-into-my-rented-house-as-seperating-from-wife

Your definition of "fair" may not be exactly the same as your tenants definition of "fair".

If your tenants have rented the place as a unit e.g. a family of 4, then you wouldn't be able to move in.

Visconti

Yes there is 3 bedrooms. One spare for me . They are on HAP also. Can i move in with them ? Im homeless.

L1011

You absolutely cannot move in with them; and the notice you gave is invalid and won't have started the 180 day timer either.

Visconti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118970965#Comment_118970965

Family of 3. One spare room.

Visconti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118970965#Comment_118970965

I never used the word fair I used the word legal. I dont want to sleep in a doorway.

JayPS 2288

How dare your wife demand you leave. Why can’t she? Utterly disrespectful if you ask me.

Visconti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971000#Comment_118971000

We can take that up on another thread. Stay on topic please.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118970992#Comment_118970992

you did use it

PRTB dont seem to have an answer for this and all laws seem to favour squatters and delinquent tenants rather than being fair.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118970978#Comment_118970978

No. They have a tenancy with sole possession to the exclusion of others. If you had been renting out 4 rooms to 4 different people and one of them had recently left then you could have taken their place probably

You could offer them some money to rent their spare room from them.

Your post says you are looking for legal advice. You won't get that here. You'll need to go to a solicitor

lucalux

If you have nowhere else to go, then present yourself, with your bags in tow, to the local authority in your area, where they will let you know of housing options and do a homeless assessment to deem you homeless or not. Then they will let you know of any accommodation they have available in hostels etc.

You may or may not be entitled to rent assistance, though it depends on your income and assets.

Contact Threshold or the Simon community also if it comes to that, they are good for getting information on your options.

Also: - I think this is where you mentioned fair:

"PRTB dont seem to have an answer for this and all laws seem to favour squatters and delinquent tenants rather than being fair"

and tbh I wouldn't see it as fair (at all) to kick a family of 3 out with 28days notice.

Maybe you would, but it's not nice facing nowhere to go and only 4 weeks to magic something up. Thankfully that's not legal either.

Visconti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971008#Comment_118971008

Stand corrected. Life is not fair i suppose.

Visconti

Could someone please give me a link where it states that the 28 day termination of tenancy for landlord to move into his own house changes after 3 years.

Im not being lazy but simply can not find this on prtb or threshold website.

JPup

I'd explain the situation to the tenants and offer to halve the rent due for the 180 period if they let you stay in the spare room. If you are on good terms with them, they might go for it. It might even be a good long-term solution for you both since it will not be easy for them to find alternative accommodation given the state of the market at the moment and it would allow you to maintain some rental income.

Donald Trump

I presume your only option is to give the correct notice. Make sure everything is done exactly correct, and just figure out how to manage staying in your current house until they move on. Your wife can't kick you out unless she has a court order and to get that she has to have a reason.

She could get a temporary one if she claimed you were dangerous or something, but it would only be for a week or so.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971096#Comment_118971096

I posted a link to statutory notice periods in my earlier post. The notice period depends on the length of time the tenant has occupied the house.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971096#Comment_118971096

It changes after 6 months - its only 28 days in the first 6 months.

Visconti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971142#Comment_118971142

It also changes when the landlord has a legal declaration and needs the house for personal use.

Visconti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118970841#Comment_118970841

Thank you. I see that but that is standard notice periods if you intend to re let the property. I intend to move in. All of my research says its 28 days with a signed declaration regardless of length of tenancy. Will find a link now.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971162#Comment_118971162

The notice period does not change irrespective of the reason why the landlord is ending the tenancy. After 6 months the tenant attains Part 4 tenancy rights, there are only a couple of reasons why a landlord can legally end a tenancy after that, one of them being the house is needed for personal use. That however does not mean that you can terminate the tenancy in 28 days, the statutory notice period still applies.

All this information is there on the RTB site, the link I posted relates to notice periods. Be aware, an illegal eviction could cost you thousands, not knowing your legal obligation will not much good at an RTB hearing.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971184#Comment_118971184

It has nothing to do with reletting a property, it is to do with ending a tenancy, Your research is wrong, the RTB website is right.

lucalux

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971162#Comment_118971162

Notice period is relevant even if you need the house for personal use.

From :

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/if_your_landlord_wants_you_to_leave.html

Your landlord can also end your tenancy for the following 3 specific reasons:

• If the landlord needs the property for their own use or for an immediate family member (this only applies to private landlords)
• If the landlord plans to change the business use of the property (for example, convert it to office use)
• If the landlord intends to refurbish the property substantially – see ‘Substantial refurbishment’ below

In all cases, the landlord must serve you with a valid notice of termination - see 'Notice of termination' below for more details.What is a valid notice of termination?

The law sets down the requirements for a valid notice of termination. It must:

• Be in writing (an email is not sufficient)
• Be signed by the landlord (or an authorised agent)
• Specify the date of termination of the tenancy
• State that you have the whole 24 hours of the termination date to vacate the property
• Specify the date of the notice itself
• State the reason for termination, if a tenancy has lasted more than 6 months or is a fixed-term tenancy. (This does not have to be included in a valid notice of termination for tenancies in student-specific accommodation.)
• State that any issue as to the validity of the notice or the right of the landlord to serve it must be referred to the RTB within 28 days from the receipt of the notice.

If the landlord needs the property for their own use or for an immediate family member

If the landlord terminates your tenancy because they need the property for their own use or for an immediate family member, you must be given the following information in writing, along with the notice of termination:

• The person’s name, their relationship to the landlord and how long they will occupy the dwelling
• A statutory declaration stating that the landlord needs the property for their own use or for an immediate family member

The RTB’s sample notice of termination when the landlord needs the property contains the required information and a sample statutory declaration.

Notice period:

3 years or longer but less than 7 years: 180 days

Visconti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971214#Comment_118971214

Thank you .

lucalux

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971264#Comment_118971264

No problem, I'll just echo what other posters above have said, which is solid counsel.

Don't leave your home unless you absolutely have to.

It's a nightmare to find a place to rent right now, worse than ever, but it's also not easy to get access to emergency accommodation. I know people think it's simple sometimes.

If it's untenable that you stay there, then there are ways to get help, advice, and access to emergency accommodation, as I said above, but hold off on rushing any decisions to move out, especially in what is likely a very upsetting time for you.

Speaking to your tenants and asking them whether they might be open to an arrangement of staying with them, as Donald Trump said above, would be a far better approach in my opinion, as opposed to trying to railroad a situation which might land you in a bigger mess.

Remembering at the same time that they are under no obligation to accommodate that request, and have that 180 days notice period accorded to them by law. So if they refuse, then you just need to plan for the next 6 months once you have your notice period correctly given, after which you will have that house to live in, all going well.

Visconti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971327#Comment_118971327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971214#Comment_118971214

Thank you .

Appreciate it. Just very stressed at the moment.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971264#Comment_118971264

There is a template letter on the RTB website for you to use when issuing them with notice. If you don’t use this letter then the 180 days won’t start until you do issue them with the letter.

Do not wait until you have “bags in tow” to present yourself as homeless at the LA. If you absolutely cannot find someplace else to live for 180 days then present yourself now as facing homelessness very soon and they will tell you what will happen.

https://www.rtb.ie/images/uploads/general/Sample_NoT_-_Own_Occupation_0720.docx

lucalux

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971432#Comment_118971432

Just in regards to the local authority, they will advise you on your options before being assessed as homeless, but in practice, and in my experience, a lot of local authorities will not carry out a homeless assessment unless you have absolutely nowhere to stay that night.

If you are staying in a property, even if you can not reasonably be expected to stay there, many LA's will refuse to carry out a homeless assessment. Not all but many.

They often need evidence of a valid notice to quit, or similar, in a lot of cases - in order to carry out the assessment, and offer emergency accommodaton.

Focus Ireland will only work, by referral of the LA, with those 'deemed homeless by the LA' and Peter McVerry are much the same. Simon Community don't work on the same principle if I'm not mistaken.

All of this depends on your area. If you are in Dublin, Galway, Cork, the services are much better streamlined and efficient, and it is less stressful for the person facing homelessness.

You can get information on applying for HAP and the council housing list prior to becoming homeless absolutely, but the homeless assessment is what matters in accessing accommodation.

Just something to be aware of. I know of several incidences where people facing homelessness (months and weeks out) who were not deemed homeless or offered information on emergency accommodation until they presented with bags and nowhere to stay that night.

If you have rental income from your 4 bed house would it not pay for you to rent somewhere?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118970963#Comment_118970963

I think Mrs OBumble was referring into a a spare bedroom in the home you share with your wife.

Firstly, your wife cannot "give you a month to leave" the family home. That is not her call to make. She has no more right to order you to vacate the family home, then you would have to order her to leave.

So, take a deep breath. I realise you're very stressed but you're panicking.

Make an appointment to speak to a solicitor regarding your rights to the family home, but I can tell you now they will advise you not to leave your home, until the terms of your separation are agreed. If you cannot afford a solicitor, you can make an appointment at a Free Legal Advice Centre (FLAC). They also have specialist clinics on family law.

However, having said the above, if you are escaping domestic violence, you can apply for emergency rent supplement for 3 months, without the usual means testing being applied, however, finding somewhere to rent will be very difficult.

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118972245#Comment_118972245

probably not. If he is getting €2000 per month - assume the guts of 45-50% is going to the tax man. Also more than likely a mortgage to be serviced on the property .. which means little or nothing left. ... I'm guessing here. But the reality is that most private landlords are not pocketing the whole lot of the rent

I would also add that leaving the family home should be the very very last resort .. however we have no idea what the OP's circumstances are and what is causing the breakdown in relationships. The only advice I could give is to stay in the family home if it is at all possible and safe to do so

Ash.J.Williams

a judge will let you stay in the family home until the tennants move out

CreadanLady

But if the wife claims to be in fear then the judge could issue a barring order.

Being a man presenting alone as homeless to the LA is unlikely to get you anything other than a bed in a shared dormitory, at best. To be honest, you would probably be better off and safer sleeping in a car or a doorway as one of those places. They are notorious for substance abuse and violence.

Are you working? If so, can you not just rent a room somewhere?

Or is there by any chance a garage or shed with the Family Home that you could turn into a small studio or bedsit?

Barring orders are not issued quite that easily any more (though emergency or interim barring orders can be granted in extreme circumstances).

If one spouse claims to be in fear lof the other, the first step is usually a safety order, which does not require anyone to leave the home.

I know if I was the spouse living in fear I wouldn't offer the other a month to move out, I'd go straight for the emergency barring order.

CreadanLady

Yeah but that is what she might do in a bind to get him out of the house if he comes in one day saying he wants to stay.

I don't know whether it has changed in recent years but it certainly was the case until very recently that if a woman mentioned being "in fear" of her partner, then it pretty much automatically triggered an barring order because judges wanted to err on the side of safety to protect the woman and any children because there would be a massive backlash if they refused an order and subsequently the woman suffered serious harm from her husband.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118972253#Comment_118972253

I wasn't.

I think that Donald Trump's advice is better: the property assets include more than just the family home in this case, and its likely better for both if they get into separate accommodation sooner.

Even if the OP presents with bags in tow, a homeless assessment on a person who owns property may not go the way you expect, even if that property is rented to someone else.

Ash.J.Williams

you don’t have to move , your wife signed a powerful contract called marriage and unless you’re an abuser no judge will make you move until you have the means to , horrible as it may be you will have a roof and she will have to suck it up

Yes, it has changed, and not all that recently.

Once upon a time it really was that easy to bar someone (typically a husband) from a home, however due to abuse of that process in the past, now the alleged abuser is allowed to put up a defence for themselves against any accusations before being barred from their homes. Safety and Protection Orders usually come first.

Those who lied and abused the process in the past did those who are genuinely living in fear now absolutely no favours by their actions, because as a result the process is more difficult for victims of DV now.

Fair enough.

But he can't just move in with his tenants either!

A spare room in the family home is the best option right now.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118975403#Comment_118975403

Those things are a nightmare

I wouldn't be hanging around if partner secured an order. Can be arrested and dropped into a cell on a whim.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118974972#Comment_118974972

"I'm guessing here"

You are

Op didn't mention mortage.how much does it cost to rent a room?

OP didn't say if he is working