Tracking down Owners of a Grave Plot

JDERIC2017

Hello, I am trying to help a friend who wants to get a memorial put a relatives grave in Deansgrange cemetery, Dublin. We have the name and address of the person who bought the grave in 1972. No details of if and who were buried there after 1972. We need to get permission from these people who bought over the grave but cemetery do not have any more information..... we have contacted the address but the person has moved on.... Who can we contact to get more info on this person. Any advice is appreciated.

KildareFan

Try to find out if the purchaser is still alive [most unlikely after 50 years] - search newspaper.com for possible death notices, and then RIP.ie from 2004.

Check probate records to see if the person died and who inherited their estate - you need to go to Probate office site; some details are online for the past 20 years. https://www.courts.ie/probate-register-online

There may be a Facebook page for the place where the purchasers lived. There are several 'I grew up in' sites for places like Tallaght, Glasnevin etc. You could put up a notice asking if anyone has any information.

Hermy

I didn't know about that Probate site KF - thanks for posting it.

JDERIC2017

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118964289#Comment_118964289

Thanks for that, I have checked news papers and rip. No joy but will check out your other ideas.

BowWow

https://discovereverafter.com/graveyards/179

The above might help. Records for Deansgrange are very good and accessable for free. If you know 1 person buried in a grave then it's possible to see the details of others in the same plot.

Am I right in saying you have the name of a person buried in the grave in 1972?

L1011

I'm getting some probate records back to 1990 on that search. Could be extremely useful

JDERIC2017

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118965089#Comment_118965089

Thanks for this, but the cemetery office is extremely unhelpful and not answering my questions. I only know the person who bought the grave, no info on who else is buried there, but they could have bought it and never used it....

pinkypinky

This website will show you who else is buried in the grave. I presume Deansgrange can hide behind GDPR to not tell you who owns the grave. Have you considered leaving a note on it?

BowWow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118969970#Comment_118969970

As your friend wants to put a memorial on the grave, I assume there was actually a burial there?

JDERIC2017

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971475#Comment_118971475

Yes, her great grandparents and 2x great grandmother is buried there going back to 1913, grave was bought over in 1972

JDERIC2017

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971286#Comment_118971286

Well if all other burials are on line free I don't know why they will not tell me who else is buried there if anyone at all, maybe it was bought over but was not used.

BowWow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118972502#Comment_118972502

ok, first thing to do is look up these 3 burials in the Deansgrange site mentioned in Post 5. This will tell you if anybody else is or is not in that plot.

JDERIC2017

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118972635#Comment_118972635

I have and it doesn't say anyone else is in the plot and cemetery cannot help me, I think this is a lost cause.

BowWow

Ok, I would see the facts as -

*you know the details of the 3 in the plot.

*It's confirmed that no one else is in there, either pre or post 1972.

*The cemetery and you know who owned the grave in 1972. (The cemetery may know something about a change of ownership since then, but understandably wont give that info out to you).

*You'll have to follow the line of the 1972 owner....

pinkypinky

BowWow sums it up well.

Deansgrange might tell you when the grave will be available again for purchase. If someone bought it in 1972 and hasn't used it in 50 years, they'll be thinking of reselling, but that would be a very big expense to go to just to put a memorial up.

JDERIC2017

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118973140#Comment_118973140

Thanks..... All i know is the address where the owner of the grave lived at in 1972, the people living in that house now, don't know anything about the previous owners. I have looked on RIP.ie and irish newspaper archive... Is there a any online or housing authority that would have any more information about the owner?

Hermy

You could try backtracking on Thom's Directory and then tying in with the Electoral Rolls in Pearse Street library.

pinkypinky

You could also look to see who paid the rates on the property for the rest of the 1970s in the Valuation Office.

BowWow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118973611#Comment_118973611

Would Pearse Street have old Phone Books?

Might be able to see where the people in the house in 1972 moved to...

Hermy

Yes, as far as I know they have.

L1011

They do, I've taken them out (to the tables in the research room - they can't be checkd out!) before. Bit hard to check exact years on the catalogue online but they have most of them for Dublin back to the 1910s - if you need to look outside Dublin - before the late 1980s there was a Dublin book and a Not Dublin book; after that the area code divisions came in; before the mid 60s or so it was just a single book for the country.

JDERIC2017

Thank you all you have helped so much.

Garlinge

I have used phone books to fill for years after the Voters list data. You could try contacting neighbours. Again Thoms and phone book might help for a phone number and a simple phone call might suffice.

Spook_ie

Just as a general query about graves and cemeteries, if it's sold on what happens to those already interred?

pinkypinky

Nothing. They just stay there.

JDERIC2017

I see Pearse Street library archive is only by appointment Wednesday and Thursday during the day, for Thom's Directory etc, is there anywhere Else I can try?

Hermy

Tallaght library have also have a good collection of Thom’s.

pinkypinky

National Library has a big collection too - open access in the Reading Room.

Fingal Archives also has a good selection (Swords)

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118988491#Comment_118988491

But aren't they limited to the amount of people they can put into a grave?

DLRCC have a 3 limit in their bye laws

9. PURCHASE OF EXCLUSIVE RIGHT OF BURIAL 9.1 The right of burial in any new grave must be purchased before an interment can be permitted. Graves cannot be purchased by way of instalment. 9.2 The purchase and reservation of multiple plots will not be permitted save in special circumstances (e.g. religious communities) as determined by the Council. 9.3 The grant of any place of burial shall vest in the grantee a right of burial only. 9.4 The Deed and Receipt issued constitutes the owner’s right of burial. As the details depend on the accuracy of the information supplied, the Council shall not be liable for any errors in the Deed as issued. The purchaser of a plot carries the right to erect a headstone in a form and manner to be approved by the Council. 9.5 No more than three persons shall be registered as the proprietor of a right of burial in any grave.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118972502#Comment_118972502

pinkypinky

But after a certain amount of time, the remains/coffin will decompose entirely.

Glasnevin allows 8 in graves.

Garlinge

I believe public plots in Glasnevin can be 12 spaces deep. In some parts there, the soil/ground conditions dictate how deep they can go and the depth may be less. Generally speaking, in a privately owned plot, you can specify how deep you want the first burial to go so a decision is made at the beginning determines how many more can be accomodated. There would be an additional cost to dig down so deep. See the records of Dean's grange for example where they note how much space is remaining after each interment.

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118990401#Comment_118990401

Cheers for that, I wouldn't want to be at the bottom me thinks when some archeologist digs me and 11 others up

Garlinge

I found out this bit about the 'public plots' being so deep by researching ancestors. There was one section with maybe a dozen plots side by side and filled 12 times. A poor woman ended up there and a few of her children were nearby in an adjacant 'deep' plot as they died not long apart. Glasnevin have meticulous records and beautifully inscribed ledgers but scans can be purchased online.