Tips on negotiating an indicative offer from one of the "Big4"

Fiyatoe

thanks Kaymin, unfortunately it would be a no go for me. I value family and life outside of work too much.

The biggest thing for me is work life balance above salary. I do maybe 8:30 earliest to 6pm latest at the minute. The odd time I’d do an 11-12 hour day for a deadline.

I have no interest doing anything that goes past that for any amount of money every day. I’ve been there, and done 8am - 8/9pm for deadlines in construction before, not a chance would I go back to that for 6 figures

Fiyatoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118962981#Comment_118962981

Do you earn as much and do less hours in the investment management? I’m sure there’s companies try to come and lure people away from big 4 telling them they’ll do way less hours.

I was always told once you cross the €70/80K mark it’s nothing but **** and hassle and long hours managing people.

only industry I haven’t heard of that is software engineering / IT nowadays .

kaymin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963036#Comment_118963036

Earn more and work less. **** rolls downhill in my experience - the lower the rung you are on the more **** you have to put up with.

skinny90

working in a big 4 firm wouldnt attract me to jump unless your talking a massive bump. Based on your info I’d be looking at minimum 90k. From experience hours can be long even in mgmt roles.

shillyshilly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118960838#Comment_118960838

you're missing the point.... unless you go onto a DB scheme, which are far and few between these days (and will likely be gone in a decade)... you will be on a DC scheme.... basically you get out of it, what you put into it....

putting in 500 a month (which is tax free)... most employers will match or contribute above that (i.e. 1000 being saved or more)

Doing that at 26 to 30 will be the difference of nearly 100k-300k in your pension pot in your 60's... compound interest in your 20's and 30's, even on small contributions, is free money you will never see again

kippy

As others have said, the big 4 will get their value outta you. If you expect standard hours in exchange for 20 or 25 percent bonus you will be disappointed.

So if you go there hit them hard on the salary side of things, you will work for it.

Ash.J.Williams

My advice is the best so far

Fiyatoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963319#Comment_118963319

You nailed it on the head in 5 words.

Glenbhoy

Here's my take:

Bonus will be substantial, but you'll work for it. Unlikely you'll be knocking off at 6 every evening. That said, you're at an age where that could suit better than for someone older who may have more family commitments. There'll always be some flexibility if you've sporting interests etc, but the hours will need to be put in.

Work will be interesting and varied, maybe travel, overseas placements if you're interested.

The longer you stay in your current role, the more pigeon holed you'll be.

2 years there will make you really employable and you'll make a lot of contacts. Many people move back into industry positions working for former clients.

The next position should give you that work life balance and salary that you want.

I find the pension position ridiculous, you might point out that by 2024 it is likely that they will be required to contribute into employee pensions, so really, they should start now. That said, you can put part of the bonus in and get your own tax relief then.

GoldFour4

I think it’s pointless giving any more thought to the position given your wishes regarding working hours tbh OP.

Skittlebrau

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118973548#Comment_118973548

Just on the working hours, it seems that most of the comments about the work / life balance are from people with experience in Audit. I would say that Tax is very different from Audit and even within Tax there can be huge variance depending on what area you work in / what timezones your clients are in etc. Then factor in different cultures between each of the Big4 too.

It's definitely not as simple as saying as a SM you'll have no work / life balance at all. It very much depends.

I would echo Glenbhoy's comments that a couple of years there would likely open a lot of doors if you did want to move on.

Fiyatoe

Fiyatoe

I also realise there the bonus yes but I’m not sure if I’ll see much of that starting in the middle of the year

OEP

I'd say that's it for the salary unless you're willing to say it's not enough for you to accept and see what they do.

If you really want the job, then an extra 3 or 4 grand is hardly worth losing it. If you're on the fence then you can be a bit more carefree and really push them.

Fiyatoe

Fiyatoe

kaymin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118976189#Comment_118976189

If you've already asked and they haven't budged I don't think there's much point in asking again. If it's too low then turn it down and maybe they might come back with a higher offer but I doubt they would.

Fiyatoe

Yeah I don’t want to push my luck and make things sour. Just conscious you only get once chance at these things

sam t smith

Walk away.

I would never rely on a bonus as a replacement for base salary. Potentially too many variables outside of your performance that could drive the bonus (department, division, company, economy etc).

A couple of years ago my bonus was smaller than the year before despite me being pretty much 100% billable for the year and me being directly responsible for winning the biggest contract to date. The reason was the overall company performance was down in the period which affected the bonus pot. I got a larger share of a smaller pot which meant a smaller bonus.

Fiyatoe

Lot to think about! Tempted to go back again

James2020App

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118976683#Comment_118976683

Was in a similar enough position to yourself not too long ago Fiyatoe. Send me a private message if you want advice on it. Don't want to put it on a public forum, for some reason can't send you a private message. Send me a PM & I will reply there, if you want.

Fiyatoe

Pmd you