Picard 2x08 - 'Mercy' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

ilovesmybrick

Picard 2x08 - 'Mercy' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** } Warning: This thread will contain spoilers 

liamtech

Just Finished it - needs another watch through

Fairly Average reasonable episode - moved the plot along but nothing Amazing to write home about

UPS:

• Q and Guinan scene - very interested to find out what the hell is going on with Q - Highlight of the episode in my view
• Rios on the ship with the Doctor was interesting to me - cant exactly explain why
• Picard and Guinan with the FBI guy - and the Vulcan backstory was interesting.

Downs

• Soong wasnt great at all this week IMHO
• Borg Queen plot wasnt great at all either

It was fine i guess - Less enthusiastic about it than last weeks outing. The season over all is descent IMHO. Compared to the 'other' show - chalk and cheese. This may be a weak outing but it is considerably better than ANY Discovery episode from S3 or S4

CastorTroy

When she said he was stuck in the past I thought it was going to be as said in last week's thread but nope.

Well that makes my comments about last week even more confusing about the transporter since Rios confirmed he was locked out, yet it was working grand last week?

Slower episode this week but setup for the next 2.

Is Renee in Quarantine now?

Plenty of ripples in play at the moment like Q giving Kore the cure. Maybe she continues the Soong line since seems this Soong mightn't make it out alive. She is his genetic daughter, isn't she, just not through normal means?

ilovesmybrick

It was average, okay but not great. I'll rewatch later, but the pacing for me was an issue. It felt more like an episode that should be in the middle of the season that towardds the end. Slow, setting out characters, etc. But then at the end it felt like another big rush to start closing off plot points. I'm not sure what they gained with the FBI scene, aside from the Q-Guinan interaction, which I enjoyed, but I'm not sure that they couldn't have accomplished the same with Rios a few episodes back and moved on. Presumably the agent is being set up for something, but I felt it could have been dealt with another way.

I quite enjoyed the Bord Queen harvesting car batteries for resources, but The Raffi-Seven stuff was redundant, and the Raffi flashback pointless. I'm not even sure if they can get back to the future now in the last half of the finale, let alone next episode, which is somewhat disappointing.

I did really enjoy Q's thing about humanity always being stuck in the past, but it feels like they either needed a shorter, tighter season with less driftwood, or they needed a 13 episode arc to flesh out all that has been jammed in.

Spear

I can only echo what's already stated above, that it was okay. Nothing that terrible, nothing that great. All the threads advanced a little, but no set pieces or major turns. It also occurs to that the cost of filming this episode must have been tiny.

Slydice

Woooo! Assimilation time!

Though the whole primitive Borg tech and remembering how they got on in Enterprise has me doubtful she can muster much of a strong force if Rios gets just some of his defensive systems working properly.

Anyway.. peak moment in the episode when Picard was being interrogated and I was like..

Separately.. there were moments in that episode where I felt the look and feel of Seven and Raffi around the broken-into cars were a bit Starship Troopers ish.

corkie

@Slydice 2 + 2 = 5

"You must be Q. Took your damn time."

"And you are that multicelled, sanctimonious, droning shrew known as Guinan. Right, it's the 21st century. Our paths have yet to cross." - Guinan and Q

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Mercy_%28episode%29

_Kaiser_

Just watching now.. Karnes really channeling Dutchboy in the interrogation scene, right down to the suit

_Kaiser_

Right.. Done.

I can only presume that they're building to/saving the budget for a big finish as that was an episode that could have been done in about a third of the time.

Still, it wasn't bad.. It just wasn't particularly good either.

Solid 5/10 I reckon.

eadrom

Grand, I guess. Quite a lot of 2 people standing in a room saying plot but I didn't hate it.

It's a bit 'melrose place' or hammy or something too, particularly with Spiner and de Lancie chewing up the scenery, and the femme fatale in the red dress, but that doesn't feel too out of place with TNG either.

Decent fun.

Guinan is fine too but the more we get to know her the more I think they messed up with Time's Arrow. If the hero's win the season, wtf happens to this Guinan? Maybe they'll merge her or something? But even then, think of the butterflies!! Sure the whole world would need to be changed. Who stopped those alien dudes with the snake?!

AMKC

Really not a great episode. The end was good do and maybe next weeks episode will be much better.

The seven and Raffi storyline is just rubbish Raffi still blaming herself for getting Eleanor killed really.

The interegation/interview scene was boring. Why did Picard not just say earlier that he is in fact human.

The Fecking Vulcans again another crash landing I take it on Earth. So when they do finally make real first contact with Earth ot must be at least there third time there if not more.

Who can forget that episode in Enterprise where ancestors of T-Pol crash landed on Earth.

Evade

So that's the filler done with, I hope, and back to the actual story next week. Any ideas as to which videogame franchise they'll rip the ending from this time?

Q's voice when it was distorted through the VR headset sounded way too much like HK-47 from KotOR I half expected a "meatbag."

This is an extreme nit-pick but petrol/diesel cars don't use lithium-ion batteries they use lead-acid batteries.

eadrom

I wonder if Q's prediction that "she wins, they get stuck here" will in fact be true, and season 3 will be the rest of the TNG cast getting together to come rescue them.

For that I guess they'd all need to have been transferred to the alt-future too but that's fine, it'd make as much sense as transferring any of the others. They're all close to Picard or something.

They could even steal an angry looking alt-D for extra nostalgia.

corkie

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Temporal_science

https://www.st-minutiae.com/articles/temporalmechanics/terms.html

Just hoping they don't take the easy route of just having a timeline reset, with all events not having an impact.

A team of borg's loose would have some strange butterfly effects?

Anyway it is done, they will have to explain the possible creation of Paradoxes?

a_squirrelman

So most of that episode was just nonsense and time-wasting, The Raffi-Seven waffle was boring and cringe, and the Rios-Doctor part could have been much better.

But I loved the Q-Guinan part along with Picard-FBI guy and his flashbacks, that was pretty cool.

I'll have to do some reading of the story so far again because I'm not getting the Q and Borg stuff, so he's dying and sent them back....but why? And why did the Queen in the Confederation future help and tell them when to go back to? Was it just so she can assimilate and become powerful? Surely she knows of the Confederation future (which she is helping to create) and that she's legless and due to be executed. So maybe if I read some summary it will all fall into place in my head.

Anyway, let's see how it wraps up.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118961193#Comment_118961193

I'll have to do some reading of the story so far again because I'm not getting the Q and Borg stuff, so he's dying and sent them back....but why? And why did the Queen in the Confederation future help and tell them when to go back to? Was it just so she can assimilate and become powerful? Surely she knows of the Confederation future (which she is helping to create) and that she's legless and due to be executed. So maybe if I read some summary it will all fall into place in my head.

Q said I'm that episode that he did not send them back that was Picard that caused that and the reason the Borg Queen helped them go back into the past is because the Confederation had defeated the Borg in the Future so by going back to the past and assimilating Earth then she restarts the Borg Collective and stops the Confederation from ever happening.

Rawr

Watchable and still alright in general. But the whole thing smacked of “filler”, and I get the feeling that you could probably extract 60% of the run time and still get the same result.

It doesn’t feel like the episode achieved anything towards the main plot and just sort of spent time for the sake of filling up an episode. They’ve been sort of doing this for the past few episodes, but at least something was happening. The FBI thing just sort of resolved itself, and don’t get the feeling that it will play any part in the finale.

The assimilation at the end was very much an anticlimax. We finally get one to happen after so many years and it just felt cheap. Seven did mention that limited resources would result in limited nano probes, but come-on, give us an implant bursting out of the cheek or something more than veins and black eyes. I fear that these Soldier Borg might not be all that Borg-ish when we see them again.

I fear even more that they’re going to do another kitchen-sink rushed finale, which makes waisting time in these episodes even more baffling.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118961435#Comment_118961435

That reminds me of a nit-pick I had in this one. Seven mentions the Queen wanting a 300 year head-start on assimilating the galaxy. But we know that the Borg are ancient and in 2024 would probably already control a large chunk of the Delta Quadrant. The main danger with her is finding a way to alert the Collective early, to send a cube long before Earth has any hope of fighting back. There’s likely another Borg Queen out there already too.

California Dreamer

For me that was a very slow episode.

I really want to like this show but overall a 4/10 for me.

8 episodes in and all the non filler could be in 1 episode.

breezy1985

What was the point of capturing Picard and having that interrogation ?

The rest was fine but that scene was so redundant.

Grand episode but like the season in general I'm not exactly on the edge of my seat waiting for next week

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963516#Comment_118963516

This is a change I noticed in myself this time. By this episode I seem to have lost a lot of my earlier enthusiasm for the show. I was nearly willing the episode to get to it and just end already. This isn’t as bad as Discovery and it’s all still watchable, but I’m also not on the edge of my seat waiting for next week. It could still be a great episode, but I fear it will be another slog to get through.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963914#Comment_118963914

I am enjoying the episodes as I watch so I wouldnt say slog they just dont really make much impact before or after watching

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118962839#Comment_118962839

Yes I agree. I suppose Earth should be lucky that there is no technology fast enough to send a signal that far yet quick enough that the Queen could use to contact the collective unless she invents it herself.

corkie

Wouldn't the 'La Sirena' ship have communication equipment? @AMKC

https://screenrant.com/picard-voyager-ducane-enterprise-mestral-missed-crossover/

Picard’s Voyager Callback Missed A Perfect Star Trek: Enterprise Crossover

Bobtheman

It was fine. Have they clarified how guinan does not know Picard?

Isn't the borg queen story a rehash of first contact. Stop her in the past.

Brent spinner /soong I said it before its all too much. He should never have been in season 2.

He reminds me though of Brent kavanagh in homeland season 8 I think. Twisted redneck

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118962839#Comment_118962839

Essentially first contact??

Johnny Storm

Am I correct in thinking there are only 2 episodes left? The first two eps of this season were very enjoyable IMHO, the rest including this one were a bit meh. If the next two are totally amazing they just might get the season average up to "pretty good".

Much as I liked Dutch from the Shield his whole plot line didn't contribute very much. Also his getting fired off-screen just at the right moment was a bit farcical.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118964465#Comment_118964465

He got fired for telling his boss they were aliens I thought. It seemed his bosses were sick of him banging on about Vulcans.

What I hated was using the "trapped in the past" line to misdirect about the actor who previously played a bloody time traveler.

With what's left I really just want spaceships and lazers at this stage even if it's just silly action scenes. Had enough of Street Trek.

Burty330

I feel embarrassed for people who enjoy this rubbish

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHBbo9XC3Jc&ab_channel=AngryJoeShow

flazio

I'm not sure if I'm liking it or not. You could say the Jurati is still out. 😏

a_squirrelman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118961435#Comment_118961435

Ok thanks

So not sending them back but he changed something to make the Confederation happen. So if it wasn't his intention that they go back in time he wanted them to do something in the Confederation time.

mewso

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118964410#Comment_118964410

On Guinan not knowing Picard. Some posters here were saying it was obviously because of the changed future Picard never could meet her in the past hence she doesn't know him. I don't go along with that as imo until the event in the present that causes the change actually occurs I think she should remember him but I would accept that it was the writers intention that changed future means they never met (that or the writers never watched TNG which wouldn't be that big a surprise).

The problem then is have they fixed it by Picard's 2 minute pep talk with Renee (lets ignore her seeing him getting mowed down by Soong which won't have been traumatic for Rennee at all)? If they have fixed it then Guinan should now know Picard (using their logic not mine) but again these writers' only real qualification is creating filler which is important when it makes up 90% of your show.

JayRoc

This is actually a perfect example of why we need a return to classic, episodic TV. Someone greenlit three seasons of this show, and so far we have been given enough actual story to fill a couple of two-(or maybe, three)parters. A dozen hours wasted.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118967073#Comment_118967073

Yep... I see the premise of some series. They look interesting but not enough to sustain a series. I would watch as a movie but no one has enough time to commit to 6-10 episodes of this drawn out / stretched too thin / littered with subplots and red herrings playbook.

Bobtheman

https://open.spotify.com/episode/6Tv5EZONce5pSjUCzhzfeg?si=tbDEr5IVTfuud_agliP-xg&utm_source=copy-link

Great podcast

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118964896#Comment_118964896

You mean people who enjoy YouTube videos like this guy I assume.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118967073#Comment_118967073

Sorry for repeating myself but it's the "Lostification" of TV. So many shows since Lost have this setup - mystery - misdirect - filler - twist - end.

The Walking Dead took it to an extreme where it's just setup - filler - filler - filler - twist - end. You can just watch the first and last episode of each season and miss nothing.

I lived with a massive Lost fan during the first run and I realized if I just watched the 5 min previous season recap every year I knew as much as the fan who watched every episode.

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118967440#Comment_118967440

??

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118967643#Comment_118967643

He said he "felt embarrassed by people who watched this rubbish" then posted a YouTube video. I assume he is embarrassed by people who watch amateur YouTube reviewers.

pah

I just don't care.

There's nothing happening at all, it's so fukking boring

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118965214#Comment_118965214

Of that I have no idea.

AMKC

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118964422#Comment_118964422

Pretty much….except this time without the Enterprise crew getting in the way of making her Interplexing beacon.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118967073#Comment_118967073

100% it could have been a decent TNG 2 parter or Enterprise 3 parter. Whats worse is that despite all the negativity in this thread, I think this might be the episode of the season so far, and that includes all the headaches I have with plotholes and filler that either ruined the series or filled up the episode.

• The FBI agent knows they are alien but lets them go on a fairly weak explanation that they might be good. He is either going to be a temporal agent checking in on them or it really is going to be that stupid (and the temporal agent thing will be equally stupid). He somehow got several agents to assist in off book kidnapping but they just let the two go when the guy got fired?!? So many possibilities and none of them make sense.
• The transporter works but now its blocked
• Raffi really is an awful person, the only reason 7 is still involved here is because they need to get home but unless she dumps her or throws her out an airlock, then 7 is clearly an abuse victim suffering from Stockholm Syndrome (which if you stretched it might be a dealing with the loss of the collective, but it is a stretch showing her character behaviour).
• I'm sorry but no ones explanation of Times arrow makes sense unless they fail, and Picard of old would have figured that out, although maybe thats the point, he is too slow too realise.
• The realisation that they are going to tie up all the flaws with a 'Daniels' type storyline or they are just going to ignore the massive inconsistencies is actually painful, either way.

Bobtheman

Jaysus raffi is not that bad a girlfriend. Unless standards are much higher these days!

Bobtheman

Overall I think it's not a bad season. I think a lot of people think TNG was a lot better than it was. Nostalgia?

It was never going to be spectacular when they wheeled out 80 year old Stewart and insist on a make work scheme for Brent spinner.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118969120#Comment_118969120

7 that we know of has been with a criminal overlord, Raffi who has her own problems to sort and worst of all Chuckles. I think it would suit her character arc to keep looking for "someone she deserves"

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971200#Comment_118971200

For all of Treks good work on interracial, gay, trans, etc. relationships it's really crap at let's just fk because we are are 2 beautiful people relationships.

The most real relationship Trek could ever do is 7 saying hey Raffi I fked your brains out cause your hot but I don't see it going further. It's just another way Expanse blows Trek out of the water without even trying

Bobtheman

To be fair Picard was never really aimed at being a leading SF show or to revive Trek.

It is essentially a last hurrah for Stewart.

I must watch the expanse sometime.

But one thing I like about Picard is its breezy. A lot of SF takes itself way too seriously.

Greyjoy

I'd echo a lot of previous comments about this episode being very little other than filler. It really tested my patience that at a point where the show should be ramping up the stakes leading into the finale it's just time wasting instead.

corkie

Linked temporal mechanics on this post.

Making Sense of Picard's Borg Queen, Q, Timeline Paradox! Who is the Masked Borg Queen?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op-7y98sAyw

Thought it was 'Q' and not the 'Masked Borg' that sent them to the 'Confederate' timeline.

Clip goes further and suggests 3 timelines?

I thought we left timeline shenanigans behind us with discovery season 2.