Advice for Starting IT Career

johnboy92

Hi Guys,

I am looking to switch careers to get enough money to buy an apartment in or near Dublin.

I have applied for this Diploma in Computer Programming. https://www.ibat.ie/courses/java-programming-diploma.html

Can people in the industry or experience switching into IT let me know if that is enough for a 60K plus developer job? Or if not how long would work experience take?

I am hoping to buy a home within 2 years and if this cannot provide it I am looking at emigration

Whatdoesitmatter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058242551/advice-for-starting-it-career

Best to book your plane ticket now

johnboy92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118951933#Comment_118951933

Why? I work in marketing and dont earn enough to buy on a single income. The advice is always learn to code. So Im looking to do that to earn the money to buy a home. And Im asking for advice on if that is possible

Sleepy

33 hours of an Introduction to Programming course is extremely unlikely to land you a 60k role inside 2 years unless you have a real talent for coding and/or have other experience. Starting positions for those with a 3 year IT degrees tend to be in support / QA roles and are still in the mid to high twenties starting off in most places which a decent worker will get up into the 40s in 2/3 years. The 60k graduate roles you hear about on social media are few and far between and are the preserve of exceptional performers who will not only likely have a 3/4 year degree (or even a masters), they'll also likely have published projects of their own on github and the likes, contributed heavily to open-source projects or have gained relevant experience over the course of their degree (perhaps via an intern placement turning into a part-time role).

johnboy92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118951963#Comment_118951963

So 30 year old IT people are also earning 30 ish thousand? I thought anyone with tech was walking into 60+. So basically no matter what you do if you are young and single you wont be able to buy in or near Dublin and theres no hope in Ireland?

dxhound2005

Most likely the country you go to will have a housing crisis in their cities as well. And will have a tradition of renting rather than buying homes. That is becoming more prevalent in Dublin as well.

Sleepy

You thought wrong basically, it's not entirely your fault though, there's a lot of spoofing in the press about IT salaries.

60k is certainly an achievable salary for a worker in IT, in fact it's roughly the figure most tend to plateau at after about 5/6 years experience. To move above it you tend to need to move into a management role, get into consulting (with all the risks and admin that brings) or be lucky enough to develop a niche skillset in an in-demand area. That's when you get into the area of 6 figure salaries. Again, not unachievable but it'll take the guts of a decade for most and will involve continuous self development and learning.

IT is a broad field though, there's all kinds of roles outside of pure development roles: data analytics, implementation, support, QA, training, project management, business analysts etc.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118951979#Comment_118951979

The majority of tech roles start in the 30s or even high 20s. Most people with a programming degree do not work in programming and they are not even vaguely suitable as training for most actual tech roles.

A 60k programming role would be for a 4 year degree and experience; not a Java diploma from a private college.

johnboy92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118951995#Comment_118951995

But in those cultures home ownership is not the norm nor renting shamed. I am looking to do anything possible to buy a house to be a normal person and help with my mental health and low self esteem from renting. So all the advice I have got on this is to go into IT

johnboy92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952004#Comment_118952004

That sounds the same as my current industry marketing. Im on 30,000 and could likely get a role now (with 5 years experience) to go up to 35,000. Then after another 5 years 40,000.

But the average wage is Ireland is said to be 48,000 which makes me feel like a loser for making less than. And to buy a home I need to be on 50,000 plus, and not owning a home in Ireland is seen as a sign of failure

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952009#Comment_118952009

Normal people don't go into IT.

NedsNotDead

@johnboy92 did you not just start the exact same thread on here a few days ago

johnboy92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952025#Comment_118952025

normal people own a home or property

johnboy92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952031#Comment_118952031

No, that thread advised me to go into IT. I have signed up for a course and Im asking if that would get the salary I need to buy a house since thats what the advice given was

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952009#Comment_118952009

Third thread on your same weird obsession that somehow people are looking down on you if you rent. Let me say this to you once more

NO ONE CARES WHERE YOU LIVE OR IF YOU RENT!

My best advise to you is to go see a counsellor, your issues can be fixed.

Irish rail are also hiring.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952032#Comment_118952032

Bugger all 30 year olds own one on their own these days.

johnboy92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952046#Comment_118952046

I was born in 1992 so Im not old. Everyone I went to school with and was friends with came from owner occupied housing. (and Im not from a rich background, Dublin 12 like). My older siblings (10 and 15 years older than me) both bought in their 20s. My aunts and uncles all own their home. Renting is for students in Ireland not full time working adults. Its not normal in Ireland to not own your own home. Im seeking any way possible for me to make this happen and willing to train in any career for it

NedsNotDead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952059#Comment_118952059

I'm thinking you might be on a wind up

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952032#Comment_118952032

Elon Musk lives in a tiny rented house.

Of course, this is only evidence for your point.

johnboy92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952077#Comment_118952077

No, Im deadly serious. Im on anti depressants because of this issue. My siblings told me renting is a choice and is dead money

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952059#Comment_118952059

Of course it's normal. Your heads not normal

shanec1928

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952085#Comment_118952085

youll still be on them if ya manage to last in IT if you think you'll make a quick buck!

johnboy92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952088#Comment_118952088

Its been forced on people since 2015 by the lending rules. But its not culturally normal in Ireland

But back to the topic at hand, I NEED TO OWN, regardless if its in Dublin, Meath, Wicklow or Louth. I have calculated in need around 55,000 on my own for a basic commuter apartment. So will training in IT get my that or what areas can I train in to get that within the next 3 years?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952085#Comment_118952085

Stop listening to your siblings (who are vastly older than you and were your age in massively different economic and social environments)

A get-rich-quick scheme by changing careers is even less likely than one that relies on winning the Lotto.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952109#Comment_118952109

What's wrong with Kildare?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952109#Comment_118952109

I don't think there are any industries where you can go from no experience and training to earning 55K in 3 years.

NedsNotDead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952085#Comment_118952085

Coming on to Boards sure ain't going to help

johnboy92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952118#Comment_118952118

So upskilling is a myth? Since to own a home and thus have a basic standard of living you need that income as a single person

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952134#Comment_118952134

No, but going from no knowledge of a sector to a significantly above average income in 3 years is not plausible. Try ten. If you're good at it.

Most single people will never own somewhere on their own. That's just it.

johnboy92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952143#Comment_118952143

If I never own then I have no future in this country and will be homeless in my old age.

johnboy92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952143#Comment_118952143

55,000 is not significantly above average, nationally the average is 48,000 so in Dublin it would be a lot higher

Irish_wolf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118951979#Comment_118951979

Good luck, changing careers is not easy but you can do it if you put your mind to it. You literally have the sum total of human discovery at your fingertips and no end of eejits on YouTube and Udemy willing to share that knowledge either for free or a relatively small fee. Personally I would have recommended getting as far as you can with the free/cheap stuff before doubling down on the expensive accreditation needed to get the big boy jobs.

Personally I know a fair few lads in their 30s earning not much more than 35k doing complicated network based IT stuff and I also know lads earning €60k+ doing relatively basic IT stuff.

It entirely depends on how skilled you are, how good your qualifications are, how good your network is, and what company you work for and have worked for. A mate of mine recently left a "Big 4" company for a position with double the wage and half the work because the company he moved to are making serious money at the moment. He's earning more than his old manager even though his new job consists of troubleshooting basic hardware issues. He's put himself in a bit of a hole because he wont be able to get that kind of money elsewhere, but it seems like a nice hole to be stuck in. He would not have gotten that job with just his qualifications, but his pedigree of working for said company got him noticed on LinkedIn and in the door in about a week.

If you want big bucks, the up and coming roles are gonna be data scientists, you'll need an MSc to get the €100k though. You can settle for a junior data analyst position 35-50k. Very achievable in a year and you can mine online data to create a portfolio to present in an interview or on Github or a personal site.

Don't mind the nay-sayers either. You will be entering a saturated market but you can definitely find your way. However put your dreams of owning a place in Dublin onto a more realistic track. You won't get there in the next few years, and you probably wont get there even on a basic IT salary.

WrenBoy

I think you are putting yourself under too much pressure @johnboy92 . While there are opportunities in tech its a field that will require life long learning so an interest in the field would help. Who knows you may fall in love with it doing the course.

I would suggest having a look at springboard courses, some can be done part time (in the evenings online) while you are working. Some courses are fully subsidised.

johnboy92

"However put your dreams of owning a place in Dublin onto a more realistic track. You won't get there in the next few years, and you probably wont get there even on a basic IT salary."

Thanks for clarifying, I wont get doing the diploma in that case, that is my only reason to do it, I have zero interest in tech, it was just for the money to be a homeowner and be normal

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952188#Comment_118952188

Some day you will be a homeowner.

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952021#Comment_118952021

Your last two sentences are your problem here.

I'm working in IT for over 15 years after doing a Business degree and a H Dip in Systems Analysis and wouldn't earn much more than your posited 60k, tbh, it's a little over 70k. (I did earn 6 figures for a period of contracting in London after a redundancy when I had about 7 years experience but with a young family at the time it really didn't suit my lifestyle so I came home to a lower paying permanent role).

Even with a fairly decent career in IT, I was 36 before I "owned" my own home (in reality, I'll be in my mid 60's by the time the mortgage is cleared and I'll actually own it and I'm in one of the cheapest parts of North County Dublin). If I'd have had your mindset, I'd have felt like a loser for years. Your expectations are simply too high for the times we live in. Most people buying homes are doing so as a dual income couple and your earnings are perfectly in line with that.

It's not the 1980's any more, houses aren't as cheap and a single salary is extremely difficult to raise a family on (trust me, I've been doing it for over a decade and it's meant that while I eventually managed to buy a house, I have no pension or savings whatsoever). Houses also aren't as cold, draughty or as expensive to heat either though and you won't have to sacrifice your first born if someone leaves the immersion on so comparing house prices now to what they were like back then isn't a very valid comparison.

Cut yourself some slack. Keep putting the effort in at work, look for better opportunities if they're under-paying you for your experience level, spend some time on your interests and try to find one that keeps you fit and healthy, give the dating apps a go or if that's not your thing get out to things that interest you and talk to people at them. Instead of comparing your life to that of those who've been more fortunate or successful, compare it to that of yourself a year ago: are you fitter, healthier, happier and wealthier than you were then? If yes, great! If not, figure out why not and work at that.

shanec1928

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952188#Comment_118952188

your deluded so thinking you can just do a basic course and start making money in IT.

Manion

Have a look here: https://www.cpl.com/ie/salary-guide/technology-salary or here: https://www.archer.ie/it-salary-survey-ireland/ not 100% reliable but better than asking random people on the internet. You sound like a person who is trapped in a generational gap with a family that don't realize the world is a different place now. People can make a lot of money in IT but it's based on experience, not qualifications. Starting out as a Junior/associate level programmer will be challenging and some companies just don't have entry level positions.

Also, this business of "learn to code" is something I've heard often from the uninformed. The salaries aren't there in Ireland for knowing Java or Python of Scala, they are there for knowing how to design, engineering and develop software systems.

WrenBoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952201#Comment_118952201

Some good advice here for all of us.

Donald Trump

In the US they have this "bootcamp" concept. Literally a couple of months of classes

I knew a girl with no technical or IT background at all from her education who went to do one. I thought it was a scam but she did it and would be on well over $100k remote working now.

Basically the deal was that they'd train her but get a percentage of her wages for the next few years .............. but that was even if she went and worked in something completely unrelated

johnboy92

So why do people in Ireland, and on boards, act like a 30 year old on 30,000 is a failure?

I was thinking that because I did arts and working in marketing I was after **** up my life and was poor but from what you are all saying 30ish grand and renting is normal? I never see that on prime time or in the Irish Times. And FG talk as if we are the richest nation in the history of the world

WrenBoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952220#Comment_118952220

Wow,, sounds like I messed up picking DB Admin so. 😭

Be overweight, have a neckbeard, think you are some sort of authority on everything just because you know a few things about databases, and have the social skills of a dead goldfish.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952231#Comment_118952231

Nobody gives a crap about the DBA's, 😋 Export this DDL. Import that DDL. Change Jimmy's role. Who gives a sh1t except when they need you for something

They just stick you guys in the basement. Probably for good reason.😋

I was skeptical when she went but she can do all that Frontend and UI/UX stuff that I'd know nothing about

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952230#Comment_118952230

Do you find that the Irish Times is awfully dumbed down these days? I really only take it for the crossword now.

WrenBoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952246#Comment_118952246

Probably for good reason yeah...

Suits me being paid to hang out in the basement though 😂

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952230#Comment_118952230

Loads of 30 year olds earn 30k or less, that is not failure.

I know of nobody who considers a 30yo on 30k as a failure.

We are not the richest country in history, we are in the top 20 of 200 countries, yes.

Now, I accept that it's impossible to buy a house on 30k, yes.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952257#Comment_118952257

Basement is better than being offshored to India I suppose!

I think it is well paid in the US though!

Sleepy

American salaries aren't a valid comparison either. Most on 50k here would walk into 150k roles in the US. And while the HSE isn't perfect, being diagnosed with cancer isn't likely to bankrupt your entire family here either. Not to mention the fact salary levels are that high for graduate roles because most graduates already have huge levels of student debt to clear before they can even think of trying to save for a mortgage (and face very similar issues around high rents and property prices anywhere within a 2 hour commute of those 100k roles).

The Bootcamps are making great money for those selling them and running them. There'll be a handful of "success" stories out of them but most paying for them won't see their investment back.

I'd be about the same age as the younger of the OP's elder siblings and, let's be honest, we had an easier time of it than his generation does. The early years of our career were the roaring days of the Celtic tiger so work and experience was far easier to gain than when you came out of college into the recession that left many of our generation in negative equity on their homes until relatively recently (and even cost the lives of some of those who shared the OP's worldview that not owning a home makes one a loser).

johnboy92

I now feel worse, I had thought IT would be a way to fix my life. But even that won't get me on the property ladder. Im going then to move to Canada, yes rents are high there and wages the same but it would get me away from the shame and stigma of renting in Ireland, being in the 1/3rd of non homeowners in this country. And when emigrants come home at christmas people always say they are doing well and respect them

BrianD3

The OP is on a wind up but there is still good discussion on the thread and I'm also interested in IT careers and the money people make.

A few weeks ago, a fella Kieran Stafford was featured on RTE's How To Be Good With Money. He is in his 50s and IIRC his salary is also in the 50s or 60s. Here's his LinkedIn - I would have thought he'd be on considerably more than that

https://ie.linkedin.com/in/kieran-stafford-46592013