Assault on my son that happened three years ago

The Darkroom

My son is just turned 9 years old. Three years ago in the summer of 2018 his grandparents with their sons came over from America. One of the sons is a professional sports wrestler and Harvard student. I always put him down as an aggressive person only meeting him once and he's in his mid to late 20s. He doesn't even know my son and this was the second time since he was a baby that he'd ever seen him.

They all went to dinner and I didn't go because we don't get along and so politely declined. I always aim to smile and somewhat try to hide my disgust for them..

My son told me today that While he was playing with the cutlery at the table had been told to stop by my wife. When he didn't stop the uncle angrily grabbed his arm so tightly that he went underneath the table afterwards and cried for a while. He was only 5 at the time.

My wife confirmed what happened and said "Uncle X just isn't used to kids".

I'm really troubled about it. I'm poor and unlike them I wouldn't have an understanding of the law especially with them being American. What can I do in this situation or is it too late to do anything?

Any advice you have I would appreciate it.

sam t smith

Report it to the Gardaí and see what they say.

893bet

“Assault”

fuxking lol

My advice is to make them pay. Surely get a a conviction and a half million in punitive damages at a minimum.

JP Liz V1

If they have returned home to America nothing

Did your wife do or say anything at the time?

Keep your son away from uncle violent

The Darkroom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940309#Comment_118940309

You wouldn't consider something like that an assault on a 5 year old? Am I being over the top? I don't mind being challenged about it. I think any stranger behaving like that to your son that made him wince and cry in pain would make any father uneasy.

Xterminator

OP what do you hope to achieve? if we know this then perhaps advice would be forthcoming.

The Darkroom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940388#Comment_118940388

I'm looking to know what can be achieved but maybe court, jail time?. I've been looking to get a restraining order against these grandparents for a while and stop them visiting my sons but nothing like that exists here. So I'm all confused as to how to proceed with anything legal? My wife thinks it is no big deal and wants to take my sons to America for a few weeks or wouldn't mind allowing them visit here again. Having something legal to veto her decision would be great. These are all the things I would like to achieve. Thank you for your comments.

anndub

Sounds like you have much bigger fish to fry with the extreme disharmony and mismatched values in your marriage.

You're not going to get a conviction over a minor incident that occured 3 years ago when all witnesses, including the mother of the child, think it wasn't that big a deal. Maybe next time there's a family outing you should go along and help your wife with the kids so her family aren't having to step in to help her mind your children over dinner. I mean, if these people are so abhorrent that you want a restraining order against them, why on earth are you sitting at home while your children dine out with them, unsupervised?

You're not going to get a restraining order against members of a family living on a different continent who have done nothing wrong either

Donald Trump

You could take a civil case for personal injury. The normal time limit for 2 years wouldn't start ticking until the child was 18.

Would I do it? - no. I'm just telling you that you could try it. Would you win anything - probably not. But it seems that you may have other motiviations so maybe causing trouble would be the reward for you

Still stihl waters 3

"Jail time" lol, no offence but you're away with the fairies if you think jail time is a realistic outcome, you hate your wife's family and want to stop them seeing your kids, you've bigger problems although I do agree being aggressive to or around kids is abhorrent

goldenhoarde

Likely little that can be done or enforced given that they live in the states. Extradition is not something on the cards so would be a warrant to arrest if they came over here but that's not likely.

What page is your wife on given that you want to bring proceedings of some sort on her family.

She would have to choose sides and if you push it could end in divorce and you having limited access to your kids!! This is based on what you said she answered when asked.

Also you were not there and in the unlikely chance of anything happening legally it's your wife and sons word against however many others were there.

What happened is wrong and as advised you should be there next time they visit so you can keep an eye etc. You don't have to like the in-laws but they are your wife's family and maybe she actually liked them.

My opinion is that any further action by you will result in issues for you unless your wife is 100% with you.

DoctorEdgeWild

I think the advice you got in your last thread is still applicable here. If you don't want your child seeing these people, that's your right. Talking to your partner seems to be the absolute obvious choice here, trying to find a legal route, where none exists, will likely end in a lot of wasted time and energy, that you could spend more enjoyably with your family.

beertons

Dude, it was years ago. Forget it and move on.

You and your wife are both joint legal guardians of your son. As such, you cannot "veto" her decisions (or she yours). You have to find a way to make a compromise.

Technically, you could refuse to give consent for your son to travel to the US. But it would be a token protest only as your wife can then go to court to seek a waiver of your consent (which I believe she would win).

Court action against your brother-in-law for something that you allege he did to your son three years ago, which you didn't personally witness, and in the presence of the child's mother who says it wasn't a big deal, is a non-starter.

But like others have said, I feel if you continue down this road of looking for ways to try and take legal action against members of your wife's family (first you wanted the grandparents barred access, now you want her brother imprisoned?) you are pushing her into a very difficult position, and that doesn't bode well for your marriage.

I think OP, you have some personal issues between you and your wife that you need to try to work out. All the best.

Mrs OBumble

All the above - and teach your kid to do what he's told.

What the hell is this thread?

What legal advice are you looking for?

You should concentrate more on being a good parent than trying to seek jail time for a family incident that happened years ago and witnessed by your wife who didn't do anything about it.

I'm assuming this might not be a serious thread but on the off chance that it is, you have to take a look at your relationship with your wife more than this "incident"

The Darkroom

Thanks everyone for the replies. I've since spoken to my wife and asked why she thought it wasn't a big deal. Her reply to me was that I did think it was a big deal and I confronted him about it. I said, X you can't do violence to children like that he's only 5 years old. He's under the table crying." She said she didn't tell me for this very reason that I'd get upset and escalate the situation.

You're right, I already have an existing issue with her family who are full of drug addicts (just the men) tolerated by the mother and father. My wife is with me 100% concerning the incident but like yourselves wants me to drop it for now. They've often been around my children high on drugs. I don't like it.

Let's be honest, if a stranger on the street grabbed your son and squeezed his arm making him wince and cry in pain because he misbehaved would you be happy about that? All I did once was give out to a kid on the street for misbehaving and I got an earful at the door afterwards. Imagine if I had done something like that?

Thanks for being objective about it and it's not easy responding to me when you don't know my situation nor is it easy for me to discuss with you at any great length. You've given me food for thought so thank you.

Jequ0n

It took your son three years to tell you, so it clearly wasn’t that big a deal for him.

Massive overreaction OP.

The Darkroom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942408#Comment_118942408

He's a BABY. Stop treating children under the age of reason as if they're adults. Many children don't talk about the sexual abuse they suffered because they don't understand the nature of the abuse. It isn't until they're older do they sometimes speak out with many sadly bottling it up for life. It's the same with any form of abuse such as that physical assault. My son is too young to reason as an adult would so your comment is ridiculous on all levels.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942445#Comment_118942445

There is a considerable distance between sexual abuse and grabbing the arm of a kid banging their cutlery on a table in a restaurant. While I would be angry if someone did this to my child, I’d trust my wife to deal with the situation at the time it happened. It reads like you are spoiling for a fight with in-laws you don’t like, if you report to Gardai, your wife’s first hand account may differ from yours. Next time, man up and go to dinner along with your kids, that way you can stop your kid from doing a very annoying thing, and prevent the need for anyone else to say/do anything.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942445#Comment_118942445

A 9 year old is not a baby.

The Darkroom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942490#Comment_118942490

I'm not likening what took place to sexual abuse but highlighting children's inability to comprehend what is right or wrong when they're 5 years of age.

The Darkroom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942492#Comment_118942492

He was 5 years old at the time and the fact he told me when much older proves my point how kids don't usually speak out until they're older and sense that such actions were wrong.

The Darkroom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942490#Comment_118942490

I'm also not required to be with my children every single moment in their lives so that's a ridiculous comment to make. Who here spends every living and breathing moment being in the presence of their children?

If you and your wife are in agreement about not having her family near your children, then you have no issue. It's up to both of you who is in their lives.

If it was me, I particularly wouldn't like people high on drugs to be around them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940419#Comment_118940419

I know it's a legal discussion so should stick to that side of things but if you told anyone you were actually considering this I imagine most people would make sure to keep their distance from you in future. You clearly have no clue how crazy this sounds and I won't convince you on boards but I'd be more worried about the issues this would cause in your marriage and am unsure how you have managed to remain married to this woman for a number of years.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942540#Comment_118942540

I think if my kids were going to be in the company of aggressive drug addicts, I’d want to be there, wouldn’t you?

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942533#Comment_118942533

What a ridiculous response. A five year old knows and understands when they are old not to do something, but it sounds like you endorse bad behaviour by likening him to a “baby” even now. Not surprising to hear that it is annoying for other people to see this sort of behaviour being tolerated by the parents.

This happened three years ago - seriously, let it go.

OP, you now want to argue with people who are just trying to advise you, so I'll leave it at this.

Your story is beginning to lack credibility, which is what happens when you start to drip feed more information to support your pov because you don't like how the thread is going. This is your second thread seeking legal avenues on how to prevent your wife's family from contact with your child, but the first mention of any substance abuse issues.

Frankly, I'm now of the opinion that you are simply looking for excuses to keep your son away from your wife's family because you personally dislike them. I feel some sympathy for your wife because she felt she couldn't discuss something that did happen with you, for fear of how you would react. They are still her family, after all.

You never did tell us how your son came to tell you this story after three years, and I'm surprised your son remembers it all so vividly given he was only 5 at time. I also wonder how you know how tightly his uncle gripped his arm and that he "winced an cried in pain" when you weren't there yourself to witness what happened.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940386#Comment_118940386

You’re not being OTT. Uncle sounds like a nasty person to do that to a young small child.

anndub

My in-laws are no picnic either but I just can't reconcile your situation with any kind of legal recourse. Talk about using a sledge hammer to beat a nail.

Concentrate on yourself. Support your wife and present a united front when your in-laws are around. Set appropriate boundaries rather than sitting at home sulking and being passive aggressive. The only person I pity here is your wife. Caught between a melodramatic, blame fueled husband and her own family

Xterminator

Hi Op

the Child's mother was present and dealt with the situation as she saw fit. no injury was caused and it was years ago. the relative does not live in the jurisdiction anymore and your child wont be likely to cross their path anytime soon.

I think you have personal issues with the family and wish to use this incident as ammunition in your disputes. No action is required except perhaps agreeing the child should not be n the company of the relative again - who live abroad anyway.

Fight your own battles and don't drag your child into your own personal disputes. that is my advice.

DellyBelly

I'd recommend going to a solicitor in this case. Rather than getting advice from people behind a keyboard maybe hiring a professional may be the best route. You may even make some money if he decides you could sue

OP is a lunatic with a bad attitude and a bitterness that needs professional help before it wrecks his marriage. How would you say that in legal terms?

0ph0rce0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118943318#Comment_118943318

Looking for some sort of American pay out is what he was asking. the "I'm Poor" in the OP says it all. "Is it too late?"

Chaps a bum from Scotland by the sounds of it, has more kids he's never seen and looking at his posts has barely worked a day in his life. No wonder the family and other kid want nothing to do with him.

A bit harsh maybe. Sorry

Ah so the wife has gotten rid of him and he is just some bitter guy looking to cause trouble. It all makes sense now. I feel sorry for her that she has to interact with this guy until the kid is old enough to see him if the kid wants but at least she is halfway there.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942540#Comment_118942540

Legally, as a parent you are required to make sure that your children are in the care of a responsible adult at all times until they are old enough not to need this. My understanding is that Irish law doesn't set an age limit on this - but other countries I'm familiar with set it at age 14.

This adult might be a teacher, bus-driver, child-minder, sports club official, piano-teacher, even another parent who's agreed to accept the responsibility. But the bottom line is that YOU are responsible for making sure they are present.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118944021#Comment_118944021

I second this.

You should not be entitled to financial gain for you and your wifes bad choices of who you invite to be around your children.

The Darkroom

I can see why forums and social media can be bad for your mental health. The anger and cynicism from anonymous strangers online can be unbelievable at times. The same people probably donate to sosad. The hypocrisy of human behaviour knows no limits. I came here for help and I've got people digging up my posts and trying to personally hurt me. I'm going to stop here and give it a break and maybe use something like just answers next time.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940419#Comment_118940419

Are you still married to your wife? And is so do you intend to remain in that state? Because right now you seem hell bent on alienating everyone around you.

Apart from everything else I very much doubt you’d find a judge in the country to take you seriously. The very first thing you are going to have to explain is your failure to protect your son by allow him to go to an event attended by a violent individual and a number of known drug addicts. You will have no credibility excuse for abandoning your son and their barrister will easily make mince meat out of you.

And then there is the little problem of evidence - you don’t have any as you were not there. Do you really think you are going to get people to give evidence against their family? A couple of ‘It along time ago and I don’t remember’ will bring that little farce to an end.

Have you asked your son what he wants to do? Because if not it would be a goog idea as he is likely to be asked?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118944445#Comment_118944445

Nah chief.

Social media can be sad for certain people's mental health if they want to play the victim. If you tend to give out personal information, people will refer to it and judge you on it.

You are being judged on information you have willingly given.

You are not a victim.

The Darkroom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118944806#Comment_118944806

I have asked for legal advice and people have veered off into slagging me and are engaging in mud slinging. "It sounds like you have problems. I feel for your wife" nobody cares what you think, answer the question and keep the responses relevant to the question. This isn't the Jeremy Kyle show.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118945333#Comment_118945333

You can't ask for legal advice here, it's literally in the charter.

Housefree

I'd be more concerned about your mental health after reading that

The Darkroom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118945352#Comment_118945352

Then why is the topic permitted to be posted? It is still a post that asks a question to which some people have not answered. Is it in the charter that one should remain on topic?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118945333#Comment_118945333

We are discussing your situation.

Just because you don't like the responses, it doesn't make them irrelevant.

The Darkroom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118945381#Comment_118945381

Nobody asked you to discuss my situation and it goes off topic of what I originally asked about in my OP.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118945391#Comment_118945391

My responses have been on topic and relevant to your posts.

Bannasidhe

Physically forcing anyone to do anything is assault. Which is a crime.

We are talking about a grown man physically forcing a 5 years old. It doesn't matter what the child was doing, nothing gave his uncle the legal right to place a hand on him.

However, this was several years ago, it was not reported to Gardaí at the time, there is no proof that would stand up in court (medical reports, impartial witness accounts etc), the assailant is no longer in the jurisdiction so legally there is nothing that can be done.

If it was me there is no way my child would ever again be in the presence of this uncle.

seamus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118945391#Comment_118945391

Everything is contextual.

Any road, what you have is a child who remembers an incident that upset them. They have no physical damage and probably had no injury at the time, otherwise you would have been aware of it.

What you have is a child who was scolded by a large man who was effectively a stranger to them. This would have been scary for the child, and likely the main reason they remember the incident.

That's it. There is nothing else to it. You can go to a Garda station and make a complaint of assault, that's up to you. Anyone can do that at any time.