Calories on menus in restaurants

Black Sheep · 28-04-2022 1:05pm

I think it's a good idea in principle, and it can be implemented in a nuanced way.

There are people who just do not want to know calorie counts, or perhaps because of ongoing issues with disordered eating would rather not be made aware... Why not get around this by footnoting calorie counts, as some menus already do with allergens. People need only refer to a small print footnote to obtain the calorie total for a dish.

Even with changing menus I am sceptical that it's that much work for a kitchen to determine a calorie count for a dish. If I can use a calorie counting app to total calories effectively on a daily basis, I see little reason why with practice a kitchen staff member cannot do likewise. I personally wouldn't envisage anything more than a criteria of good faith and expectation of reasonable accountability for figures put on menus.

To the general argument that this is a form of social control or hostility by the State, I just don't see it. Consumers would totally retain the right to order what they like and overeat, that would be their choice. It's just offering consumers a form of basic information that can have a real impact on their health.

We know we have an obesity problem. We know people consistently underestimate their calorie intake and I'm convinced a lot of people experiencing creeping obesity have no real sense of how much of a calorie surplus they are in on a weekly basis. Some people are consuming an entire day's worth of calories in one takeaway meal, a number of times a week. Their general activity levels and diet the rest of the week are not going to necessarily pull them out of that hole.

Some people who see in black and white the calorie count for a given takeaway option might well make a different choice as a result, which would be a positive.

I accept there will be a minority of the population who either have an existing disorder or perhaps have a tendency towards one that this type of activity does not help, but frankly I think that's not a reason to proceed if there is a broad positive outcome for the majority.

When it comes to obesity there are also a lot of people who, on an individual basis, just say their activity levels and diet means than a measure like this would not be relevant to them and isn't something they support as a result, but it's clear that on the whole we as a country are not on top of the obesity issue, whatever people report with regards to their personal success. There's also the rather unfortunate evidence that Irish people consistently underestimate how overweight themselves and their children actually are...

The Nal · 28-04-2022 2:42pm

"Scan QR Code for nutritional information".

Leave it off the menu.

seamus · 28-04-2022 2:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118988746#Comment_118988746

Why?

The Nal · 28-04-2022 3:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118988835#Comment_118988835

Because I dont want or need to read how many calories are on each dish like some sort of weight watchers menu. Fun police ruining everything again.

If you're worried about calories just scan the code and you'll have it in 5 seconds. Let the rest of us enjoy ourselves. Like, I know the cream sauce has more calories.

This is mainly aimed at junk food addicts anyway who eat a lot of KFC and Mickey Ds. Thats fine.

notAMember · 28-04-2022 3:24pm

Agree with portion size options being more useful. A 25 year old 7 ft person doing sports training 4 times a week does not have the same calorie needs of a 50 year old 5 ft tall office working person. So why does the person with a lower calorific meal need to pay full price for a meal they only eat half of. Let them have a small / large option on the menu.

Having small / large options on food is normal on loads of menus in other countries, don't know why it's not here.

On calorie counts, I'm sure it is helpful for customers who want to count calories. It does limit creativity in a kitchen, so that's the disadvantage. Mitigated by it only applying to large chains with standard menu's I think.

And for travel, I travel for work too, and have been found it occasionally wearying to try to get something that isn't a very rich and heavy meal. It's tricky enough with translating, but I'm not sure calorie counts would help, unless there is a standard way to write it. Even on packaged products, sometimes calories are per 100g and you've to do some calculations. Or a "portion" is a subset of what's in front of you.

El_Duderino 09 · 28-04-2022 3:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118988959#Comment_118988959

Why are you assuming that there are too many calories in the food? You could look at the menu and see things thst are bang within a normal calorie range for a meal.

I can't get on board with your desire for willful ignorance being imposed on others. If you want to remain ignorant of the calories, you could not look. Fact is that Ireland is doing pretty poorly at managing obesity with the information we have. We know people underestimate the calories in foods (drastically in some cases). Giving consumers the information to make informed choices is a good step. If you don't want to know the calories in your big mac, just don't look.

The Nal · 28-04-2022 3:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118989001#Comment_118989001

It makes restaurant menus look very fast foodish. Ive no issue with them in fast food places mind you. Im only referring to proper food in nice places.

28-04-2022 3:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118936281#Comment_118936281

The Brewdog pub in Dublin does that for their beers. Or, rather, how much carbon they offset per meal sold, or something like that.

El_Duderino 09 · 28-04-2022 4:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118989083#Comment_118989083

That's grand. If its just a matter of menu style preference then it's no big deal. And certainly not a reason not to do it.

It would only apply to relatively large restaurants, mostly chains, anyway. So not a problem.

seamus · 28-04-2022 4:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118988959#Comment_118988959

You could make the same argument for ingredients. Why put them on the packet? If people cared what it contains, they can go look it up.

If you don't want to know the calories, maybe don't look at them? Just like you don't look at the ingredients on most food that you buy?

This need to be wilfully ignorant seems to be more about punishing other people for wanting to be more informed, than it is about making things better.

Black Sheep · 28-04-2022 5:09pm

I think at times public health measures do require compromises on what people are comfortable with looking at. I'm sure most smokers would rather if there were no health warnings on their cigarette boxes, or the pictures of tumours. There will be the argument that these things don't deter people addicted to cigarettes from smoking, but as someone who used to be a casual smoker on nights out I would say they did occasionally stop me from asking someone from a cigarette. There's people hanging in the balance or open to change who could be the target of messaging like this.

With calorie counts I would also suggest that there are people who think they "know" how unhealthy a particular option is. But just as people seem to have trouble recognising when they are overweight, we know they seem to be biased towards underestimating their calorie intake. So someone might order a pizza they "know" is a bit of a treat, but if you asked them would they tell you that they reckoned it was 1000 calories (Maybe a little more than half of their recommended daily intake) .... And what if that pizza was actually 1800 calories, as some of the stuffed crust pizza hut options are... I think this could have a positive nudge effect on choices.

The Continental Op · 28-04-2022 5:24pm

Genuinely some people don't have a clue what calories are in things.

I vividly remember going through a checkout and a rather large lady was at the till. Amongst my shopping was a plastic tub of muesli it was one of those ones you could eat by the handful without needing milk. The checkout operator picked the tub up and commented "nice isn't it, I ate a tub last night while watching the TV". I replied do you have any clue how many calories are in a tub of muesli the reply was "no". I looked on the side of the tub and at its weight and did a quick calculation and said five thousand. She was flabbergasted and said she thought muesli was natural and good for you? !!!!!?

The Nal · 28-04-2022 5:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118989236#Comment_118989236

Im all for people being informed, again, QR code. Takes literally 5 seconds to pull up. Keep it off the table. QR menus will be common place here shortly. Standard in loads of other countries.

Should there be calories on wine aswell? That varies. And cocktails? Whiskeys etc? What about all the soft drinks? Some of them can have more calories than the food.

El_Duderino 09 · 28-04-2022 8:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118989568#Comment_118989568

Yeah. The calories in drinks is easy to quantify. It's already done by the manufacturers. You asked that as if you thought puting the calories on drinks was a big leap. I assumed it was part of this exercise being proposed.

I'd say if you asked peoppe how many calories in various pints of lager, stout and soft drinks, and how much per shot of various, spirits, you'd find that most people are miles out.

El_Duderino 09 · 28-04-2022 8:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118989437#Comment_118989437

I'd imagine the warnings on cigarettes are much more impactful on young people who grow up and the first things they know about cigarettes is that they cause illness disease. It might have some impact on current smokers but I'd say they have little or no effect on long term smokers.

That's fine though. All strategy needs long and short term impacts. And I'd say it would work the same for calories on menus. Might have little impact on obese people who habitually overeat, bit would probably have more impact on the children of today when they reach adulthood.

the beer revolu · 29-04-2022 9:59am

I, honestly have no idea about calories. I wouldn't even try to estimate what calories are in any given dish - it's just not the way I look at food.

I understand why restaurateurs would be against it as it means more paperwork and procedures but I cannot, for the life of me, understand why an average punter would object to having more information on a menu. That's all it is. More information - of no interest to me - but potentially valuable to many. Why would I object to this?

Then you get all these false narratives and whatoboutery. Eating disorders? Really? So, should we remove nutritional information from every packed food item sold? Does this information cause problems for people with EDs?

Arguing against having this information is akin to arguing against having the ABV listed on drinks - because, alcoholics, imo!

El_Duderino 09 · 29-04-2022 11:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992010#Comment_118992010

The appeal to eating disorders is classic. I'd bet good money that the same posters who pretend to care about eating disorders would oppose or be apathetic to measures to help people with eating disorders.

Theres a genuinely fascinating attitude and its pretty prevalent on Boards which could be summed up as "I don't want better, I want what I'm used to".

I can't see any reason to oppose putting calories on menus as outlined above. It's unlikely to have a huge impact in the short term, but is likely to have greater impact in the longer term. Obesity is pretty serious and will cost the country a fortune so thsy means higher tax in the future. This is one way to address the issue for the future.

29-04-2022 11:22am

No harm in the idea. If you don't like it, pay no attention to it. Will it include how much salt the chef fooked in for added 'flavor'?

The Nal · 29-04-2022 11:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992425#Comment_118992425

Yeah if were going down that route then sodium needs to be added. Thats a killer.

Patsy167 · 29-04-2022 12:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992468#Comment_118992468

I'm not convinced salt is as bad as it is made out to be - https://www.singlecare.com/blog/salt-good-or-bad-for-you/

MrMusician18 · 29-04-2022 12:22pm

For the ordinary punter, I can't see why anyone would have a problem with calorie information on a menu. More information is always desirable. ESRI have done studies on this and it does change behaviour. Its quite interesting tbh.

I can see why restaurants are against it though and it's not because of the admin overhead. It's because it illuminates how the catering industry makes food so palatable: loading it with fat and sugar.

The Nal · 29-04-2022 12:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992695#Comment_118992695

Depends on the restaurant but yeah. A lot of places cheat with salt, butter and oil.

DoctorEdgeWild · 29-04-2022 12:38pm

The more information available to people, the better. Having it there does no bad, only good. There's no logical reasoning against it. (unless it was put upon smaller restaurants with more limited resources, which is not what is proposed).

Stopping information/education is rarely a good thing.