EuroPark profiting off hospitals?

Flinty997

Your argument was parking costs the hospital money. It doesn't. It generates income for the hospital.

Your other argument is the space would be better used for something else. Yet when the opportunity arises for more space they don't take it. Free land is refused, existing lands is sold off, or contracted out. They even choose to build on restricted sites. Which makes that argument null and void.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118933347#Comment_118933347

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118948014#Comment_118948014

Your argument is its net cost (discrimination) to patients who don't use the car parks. But its not. They get subsidised from it, from the income it generates to the hospital.

Since there is no means test of people using the car park There is no way to identify better of car park users. You don't even know if they are using the hospital at all. So no, you're not advocating for patients at all. You're only advocating for people with access to public transport or non car access to the hospital. Which in many cases will be people in Dublin and then only in parts of Dublin.

So no you're not considering all patients. You're only considering a very small targeted group. Which once again is nothing to do with hospital car parks.

Flinty997

People say there's a City/Dublin bias in this country.

Kind of hard to argue otherwise then you move services to Dublin, and want to make it hard for people not beside them to access them.

TheTruth89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118947990#Comment_118947990

I hadn't mentioned public transport in this thread because this is a thread about hospital car parks, I also haven't mentioned the suffering in the Ukraine that doesn't instantly imply I don't care about it, lad you have some seriously warped logic and you a full convinced you are right which is Abit scary 🤣

Have a think there for a second why would a private company do parking if there was no profit to be made I mean this is so obvious it's stupid to even be talking about it.

Ur arguements are odd and your logic isnt far behind. Do you want me to link europark articles that you can easily google yourself? Honestly....

Bingo there is most certainly a hell of a lot of people outside of cities and you say driving from rural areas is a choice I'd love to here your options for these people... Horse and cart is it? Cycle? Honestly it's laughable at this point.

Cabaal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118949230#Comment_118949230

The reality is the vast majority of the Irish population lives in urban and city areas (approx 64%). Most of them have options of getting to hospital via taxi, public transport, walking or cycling. This isn't just Dublin, if you look at other citys like Kilkenny or Waterford they also have all the same options.

Don't expect your car to be stored for free there. Space is at a premium in hospital carparks and having free parking would only encourage people shopping or commuters to use the carpark. Now you could argue that they coiuld police the carpark but that would cost money, this isn't good use of tax payer money.

Instead it makes far more sense to charge for parking, this stops parking abuse, pays for ongoing maintance and benefits the hospital without using tax payer money. The vast majority of hospitals do make provisions to patients in certain situations.

People need to stop expecting that storage of their car should be free.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118950060#Comment_118950060

vast majority? Ireland only passed majority Urban in the last decade.

Cabaal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118950092#Comment_118950092

Nothing really meaningful to add I see, but sure it was 61% 10 years ago so still a majority.

My points still stand. Bottom line is its poor use of tax payer money so people can have free storage for private property, especially when cars are incredibly space inefficient

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118951137#Comment_118951137

I can't find the report. A turning point happened about 10 to 15 years ago. 50% point was passed. The threshold for those reports at the time in the media may have been urban areas with 5000 or 10000 inhabitants or higher. I can't remember exactly. I do remember it as a point where the reports suggested our view of whether we are an urban or rural agrarian country should change.

What exactly is your problem with that? Are you claiming it is a wilful lie or just not attributable to a verifiable source.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Hospital worker here. During the pandemic we could park in the hospital. Yesterday euro car parks started charging again so it's back to early mornings, parking miles away and getting the shuttle bus in and out adding another hour to my already long day (12 hour shifts) all to profiteer.

TheTruth89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118950060#Comment_118950060

Europark = For Profit Private Business.

The above has nothing to do with taxpayers money, if we are to pay for parking why not have hospital car parks government ran and all profits from said parking going back into our hospitals to improve them why do we have private companies making a profit out of hospital car parks?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118950060#Comment_118950060

In recent years the people I'm bringing to hospital have limited mobility, or its something that needs timely intervention. Most of the alternatives aren't an option. A taxi is just a more expensive way of using a car. I go to work on public transport and cycling. I know what its involved.

Its facile calling it storage, or arguing about payment. When the reality is they mostly don't police the parking anyway. You'll often rock up the Mater one and it will be full with people not going to the hospital at all. Likewise that space is a premium when they are wasteful with it. Its disingenuous.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118951604#Comment_118951604

Nurse Mary says she can only every other day in the carpark.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118951374#Comment_118951374

When I switched from the train and bike back to the car, it was because the commute was taking too long didn't facilitate the other stops I had to do in the evenings. Which wasn't an issue when I had no other commitments. I could take as much time as I like. But things change.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118951137#Comment_118951137

If you closed all car parks tomorrow would that be better use of tax payers money?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118949149#Comment_118949149

It really looks like you're being deliberately obtuse, trying to spread confusion. But just in case you are genuinely confused, let's clarify the two different scenarios that you are mixing up.

1) Current scenario - people pay for parking - generates some income for the hospital, with the benefits going to all hospital users.

2) Scenario proposed by many on this thread - parking is free or highly subsidised, with significant capital investment going into upgrading parking control systems - this is the scenario where motorists are subsidised and prioritised over other hospital users.

I didn't say that the space would be better used for something else. I said that using it for parking creates an opportunity cost, an opportunity to generate other income that is being missed. That's a simple fact. It doesn't say that it SHOULD be used for something else. Please stop trying to confuse things.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118949201#Comment_118949201

Eh, there are hospitals outside Dublin, just ICYMI.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118949230#Comment_118949230

Except the Russians haven't invaded hospitals of their car parks, so the Ukraine isn't really relevant here. I've been pointing out that not everyone drives for over a week, and your magnanimous gesture is that you won't object to some facility for non-driving hospital users. It doesn't give you any credibility to pretend that you're really considering the needs of non-driving hospital users.

You've gone from 'vast profits' for Europark to 'obviously some profit'. Which is it? And yes, I DO want to you provide links to Europark articles that show that they made vast profits from hospital car parks. Most private businesses don't provide breakdowns of their profits, so I'll be very surprised if you find any such articles.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118951374#Comment_118951374

Who do you think should pay for your parking? What equivalent perk should your non-driving colleagues get?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118951604#Comment_118951604

Do I need to explain to you for a third time about the different cost structures of public service staff vs outsourced staff?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952086#Comment_118952086

A taxi doesn't require parking at the destination. That's a key difference.

Parking IS storage. That's what it is - storage of the private property of some people.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952136#Comment_118952136

Pure strawman argument - no-one is suggesting closing all car parks. People can continue to drive. They just have to pay for storage of their private property at the destination.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952782#Comment_118952782

Quoting specific things on boards absolutely sucks. I'll just address what you said to me. Anyone working in the hospital who's using public transport/bicycle/walking is from the city. I'm coming from the country, no public transport, walking or cycling is definitely out of the question. So I've two choices, pay to park at my job or drive into the city, pay for parking there and get a shuttle bus back the way I came. I'm **** sick to the teeth of being a motorist in this country. Between ridiculous tax, insurance, farcical money making NCTs, wrecked roads, any good ones to pay extra for. Mental fuel prices.

TheTruth89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952782#Comment_118952782

The way in which you are perceiving what's being said in this thread is boarding on delusional it really is.

Here's whats really happening. Euro-park a private company are currently making very very healthy profits off parking. The spin your putting on it as if they are doing the country and the hospital a favor and that its a great setup is genuinely laughable ill say it again incase you missed it they are doing it for a PROFIT.

Whats being proposed is several things all of which eliminate the private parking scheme that is currently milking profits from patients,vistors and hospital employees a like.

Your argument against these points is A) Its unfair to patients that dont drive so drivers must pay extorionate parking fee's because other people dont drive and B) the goverment running it would cost money, it would but i think you'd find it d be well covered within the profit margins Europark and likes are operating at.

Going by argument A shouldnt cyclists be paying road tax for there bikes as its unfair to everyone else?

There are so many holes in your points its like swiss cheese its boarding on ridiculous to even reply to half of them.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953193#Comment_118953193

So you're not going to answer the question I asked, as to what equivalent perk should be provided to your colleagues who walk or cycle or take the bus? Why don't you expect to get your NCT for free or your insurance for free? What is it particularly about storage that makes you expect to get it for free?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953349#Comment_118953349

That's your third statement about the level of profits that Europark are making, so I'll ask you again to produce some specifics about the level of profit they are making. You can keep talking in generalities, but I suspect that you have absolutely no idea what level of profits they are making. Therefore you shouldn't be basing any of your conclusions that are based on the fantasies inside your head. Feel free to fill in the holes in this Swiss cheese with facts and details if you have them.

Providing free services to one set of patients is indeed discriminatory against those patients. Someone has to pay for those services - there is no parking fairy who magics up parking services. So why would you expect everyone to share the costs of parking, including those who can't afford a car?

No-one pays road tax in Ireland, btw.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953477#Comment_118953477

Oh, you're an idiot.

Wat perk should they get? Is the perk of being able to cycle, walk, scooter or bus their way into work enough. I mean they don't have to pay to park their scooter or bicycle.

You keep saying "storage" instead of parking. Parking is an amenity. Granted it's not a right. But the whole point of the thread is that's it's a bit sh1tty to have to pay for it.

You must be in the Lycra brigade or the Gretta camp.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953526#Comment_118953526

Ah, the old 'let them eat cake' response. Clearly those who walk or cycle or bus aren't important enough in your mind to get a handy perk from their employer.

Who exactly do you think should pay for the storage of your private property? Should the cost be shared by your minimum wage colleagues who can't afford a car?

TheTruth89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953477#Comment_118953477

Well they are hardly operating at a loss now are they ? and going by the fact the workers they need would be few and entry level and the fact that a flat piece of asphalt doesn't exactly require alot maintenance id say there overheads are minimal compared to there profits.

Can you not see the issue with your "if every single person doesn't benefit from this i dont want it" approach? whats your take on children's allowance? should we scrap it because not everyone has a child?

The fact i have to explain that to you says alot i mean are you deliberately acting stupid or are you devoid of all common sense? i thinking your deliberately misunderstanding whats being said because your argument has been shredded by multiple posters at this point.

Goggle them urself im sure your well able im not posting links for the sake of posting a link.

TheTruth89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953590#Comment_118953590

Considering its commonplace to have "bike to work" schemes in most companies these days, i dont think the lycra brigade have much to whinge about should we scrap that cause its unfair to motorists? wheres my car to work scheme? or is your logic only applied selectively?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953593#Comment_118953593

You're not posting links because you know well there are no articles that tell you what profit margins Europark are making on hospital car parking. You can say what you like about their costs, but it is entirely meaningless unless you put their income right up there beside it. Be honest, you know nothing about the levels of profit made, so you should really stop basing any conclusions on figures that you don't actually know.

Children aren't car parks. The State makes a decision to fund a very small part of the costs involved in raising a child, mainly because we have a vested interest in having more children grow into adults who will pay taxes into the future to fund our retirements. We could have a long debate as to whether this should be a universal benefit or not, but would really be taking things way off topic.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953611#Comment_118953611

Here's your 'car to work' scheme.

https://www.seai.ie/grants/electric-vehicle-grants/

It is FAR more generous than the bike to work scheme, and in fact, it doesn't have all the 'work' restrictions of the bike scheme. Unlike the bike scheme, it is open to everyone, students, retirees, stay-at-home parents, there is no requirement to be 'at work' and the benefits aren't restricted to tax relief.

TheTruth89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953621#Comment_118953621

The point i made about children's allowance clearly wasn't about children's allowance more to highlight the gaping holes in your logic of patients should have to pay parking because other patients have to take the bus.

There is plenty on Euro park you only have to look.

Flinty997

Europarks won't operate at a loss. So any money they transfer to the hospitals is in addition to their own profits and costs.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/state-run-hospitals-take-in-12m-a-year-from-car-parking-charges-1.4531372

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953691#Comment_118953691

What is this 'gaping hole'? Why should people who can't afford a car share the costs of providing parking for those who can afford a car?

There is no public information on Europark that supports your claims of vast profits or huge profits or any profits. No private company is going to publish detailed financial information like this.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953699#Comment_118953699

I'd broadly agree with you. But that doesn't stand up any of the claims made here of 'vast profits' or 'huge profits' or 'profits that could withstand considerable increases in personnel costs'.

TheTruth89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953702#Comment_118953702

There is no public information on Europark that supports your claims of vast profits or huge profits or any profits. No private company is going to publish detailed financial information like this.

You and I both know that is the very definition of a strawman argument, you know full well they are cleaning up and anyone with a shred of common sense knows it.

What is this 'gaping hole'? Why should people who can't afford a car share the costs of providing parking for those who can afford a car?

If the government took the model that is currently in place and ran it, they would be operating at a profit. It what way is that going impact the lad on the bus?

I mean if thats your argument should we all only pay taxes on stuff we benefit from and avail of directly? i dont cycle a bike why are my taxes going towards countless bike lanes for you and your buddies?

TheTruth89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953716#Comment_118953716

We all know well if they are backhanding hospitals 12m... they are taking in far more themselves, maybe they should start charging at bike sheds, might get you on board then i mean after all "Why should you get free storage" or "why should i have to pay for your bike storage" thats your mantra isnt it?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953740#Comment_118953740

You and I both know that you have no information on the profitability of this business for Europark or others that operate these services. You have no idea of their profit margins. If they are 'cleaning up', why aren't their competitors coming in at a slightly lower price to take the business off them? Hell, if there's vast profits to be made, why aren't you setting up your own parking management company to swoop in and take the business off them?

You have no information about the profitability of this business, so any conclusions you make about profitability are your own imagination.

Please don't make me explain to you for a fourth time that public sector staff operating car parks would have much higher costs than outsourced staff.

Perhaps you haven't worked it out yet, but there are benefits for everyone in getting more people cycling, including reduced traffic jams, reduced healthcare costs, reduced pollution, reduced traffic chaos. That's why governments around the world are encouraging and incentivising cycling, in some cases actually paying cyclists to cycle. That's why it make sense for governments to fund cycle facilities, as they are doing in Paris, as they are doing in Barcelona, as they are doing in New York, and many other places around the world.