US Police Shooting of Patrick Lyoya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118928917#Comment_118928917

But this isn't about you. I'm only posting from my own experiences and knowing about his priors. He was no saint and a lone officer. And also knowing your lack of what it is in the life of a LEO. It's easy to judge when yo never live that life. I'm only trying to bring to light that there is more to it than what media makes it out to be.

You can quote whoever or whatever to justify your reasoning .But if you ever experienced those events yourself then your talking out your ass I have 32 years,2 weeks and 5 days serving the Dept. of Public Safety of Texas. So if you want to talk policing then pm me. What you might hear might won't be what you believe in.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118928999#Comment_118928999

But this isn't about you.

LOL then stop making it about me: "I'm not playing into your agendas," "Your agenda has been to paint all US LEO's as republican, racist, gun totting members of the community," etc.

Your own experience with his priors is a claim you refuse to verify, for 'reasons.' You want to smear the suspect without evidence and defend the officer without evidence. I've been the Pope for 35 years, so.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118928999#Comment_118928999

Mate, you can't come onto a discussion forum and say, "oooh I have information and I can't say where from, but trust me anyway" and expect to be taken seriously.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118928828#Comment_118928828

Haha.

If only.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118928520#Comment_118928520

Da Fuq?

Does he have a criminal record or not?

If he is a multiple convicted felon like you claim there will be a record of this, a record that is public information.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118929413#Comment_118929413

When directly asked to explain or defend your baseless accusation, this is the quality of your response?

Does seem like you believe that anyone who doesn't agree with you is a bigot/racist/phobe and go to extraordinary lengths to attribute racism to opinions where it doesn't exist.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118929568#Comment_118929568

Bring me to court.

Let's see how baseless it is.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118929579#Comment_118929579

Lol.

What is it with people stating something as a definitive fact, being asked to back it up and then saying "oh I won't do it on here".

Not quite sure you have really got the hang of discussion forums.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118928591#Comment_118928591

FFS. He didn't just walk up to the guy and shot him without any reason. There was plenty of context.

Victim blaming? Really. The guy who got shot made some really poor decisions.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118929609#Comment_118929609

If it was baseless you'd be giddy about exploiting Ireland's defamatory laws and winning a fortune.

Unfortunately for you, your posting backs it up.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118929632#Comment_118929632

Lol.

My bad. I see you want to jump into threads, shout that things you don't agree with are racist, and add nothing to the discussion.

You accused me of taking the racist position in this discussion.

My position is that we should wait for the facts to emerge before we label this an execution.

You think that is racist.

I'll leave you to think that over.

I won't be replying to you unless you directly ask me a question so as not to derail the thread.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118929624#Comment_118929624

The context is indeed key. I hope we get more concrete proof that this was not an unlawful shooting. It would be the last thing America needs.

The video does look terrible though.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118929691#Comment_118929691

There's plenty of context in the videos that are publicilly available in fairness. This could easily have been avoided.

Snickers Man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118927735#Comment_118927735

That's your point? There was no alternative! Anyone else would have done the same thing in his position!

Then how come this so rarely happens in other jurisdictions? How come people at traffic stops aren't been shot in the head with regularity in other countries like Germany, France, UK, Ireland etc etc?

Our cops shoot somebody dead once every two years on average. (There will probably be a fatal shooting by Gardaí some time this year. On current trends. The last fatal shooting was in December 2020) In America they shoot dead about a thousand!! Every year.

What to do about it? Well for a start, you don't tolerate summary actions like those performed by that policeman. You just say "No. We're not having that!" And follow it up by putting him away for a long time. Cops will get the picture soon enough. A bit like rugby players and dump tackles or head collisions. Send them off. Keep sending them off. They'll get the message and change their ways, for the most part.

If you keep making excuses for this sort of barbarism it will continue. So will the outraged reactions and as a consequence the chances of a consensus approach to reducing the overall threat to life will diminish. That surely can't be in the best interests of the police force and its members.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118930589#Comment_118930589

Well, just a quick answer. Carrying firearms is normal in the US. Every time a policeman does anything, they have to expect the person they are dealing with is armed. Thankfully that is not the case in Ireland and fairly unusual in Europe.

It's a different society.

seamus

That's your point? There was no alternative! Anyone else would have done the same thing in his position!

Yeah, I watched the whole video for "context" here, and it's clear that absolutely everything in this was the cop's fault.

He was basically wrestling a suspect who was taller and clearly stronger than him. At no point had this suspect done anything which required the use of serious force. He wasn't assaulting the cop, he was resisting arrest.

There was whole minute there where the cop had ample opportunity to step away, put 3m between them, draw his tazer and warn the suspect to get on the ground. He didn't. He continued wrestling.

Instead, the cop makes a gigantic, tazer 101 error, and attempts to use it while wrestling with the suspect. It most likely misfired (both barbs need to hit the target), and the suspect then grabbed the tazer - because he doesn't want be tazed, duh. At no point was the suspect in charge of the tazer, they were both holding it.

So the cop completely fucked up everything to that point. What's clear then is that he repeatedly told the suspect to drop the tazer, drew his weapon, told him to drop the tazer once more, and then shot him in the head. At no point did the cop warn the suspect that he had drawn his weapon or that he would shoot it.

What were the alternatives here? Well, you've got a suspect who is pinned to the ground, face-down, and has a grip on the tazer, but is not in control of it. I can think of many, many alternatives in this scenario which do not require that you blow his brains out half a second after giving him a command.

Even if we rewind, way back. You are a cop on your own with a suspect who is at least as strong as you, if not stronger, who is not armed and has decided to run. What do you do?

I tell you what you don't do; you don't get into a wrestling match with them. You draw your tazer, give them a warning, and if the tazer fails you let them run and you call it in.

Nothing this man did before or during the incident justified his being killed. Nothing.

Sudden Valley

I think probably the officer is not competent to be a cop that he is disarmed so easily and then shoots someone in the back, like how the hell could he make so many bad decisions and be trusted in future. The other guy obviously acted irrationally and caused his own death but the cop still shouldn't be given a pass.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118930646#Comment_118930646

You’re telling me the cop thought the suspect had a gun when he shot him in the back of the head? When both of his hands were open flat on the ground?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931172#Comment_118931172

How should I know what the policeman thought?

I was answering a general question post from a different poster

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931197#Comment_118931197

A general answer which doesn't apply to the case study the thread focuses on. The suspect had no weapon and certainly had not unconcealed one during their brawl.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931230#Comment_118931230

And your answer doesn't apply to my post.

You do know that occasionally, conversations veer away from the actual topic and discuss general things that are related to the topic? I'm not sure why the animosity towards me. Not everyone has to post the way you want you know......

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931251#Comment_118931251

Your post which does not apply to the topic, the shooting of Patrick Lyoya? Animosity?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931260#Comment_118931260

Thats because my post was replying to a post which wasn't about the topic either. Is that ok for you, topic police?

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118930646#Comment_118930646

It's definitely a factor but it's far to simplistic, Canada up the road would have a similar 'riddling policy' if it was just down to quantity of gun ownership.

Even Germany has relatively high gun ownership.

I remember reading a stat that German police in one year fired 85 shots in total across the entire country, 50 of them being warning shots.

In one incident in LA in the same year the cops shot at a suspect in a car chase 90 times.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931277#Comment_118931277

No that doesn't check out, Snickers Man was discussing the topic:

That's your point? There was no alternative! Anyone else would have done the same thing in his position!

Snickers Man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118930646#Comment_118930646

I couldn't agree more! The accepted wisdom in America is that if everyone has a gun, on their person, all the time, few people get shot.

In just about every other normal democracy around the world that is not permitted. You can own a gun; you can't carry it around with you in a prepared (ie loaded) state for combat. Bring it to the target range/hunting grounds; load up; shoot it off; put it away again before travelling home. The right to "carry" loaded firearms is pretty much a salient example of American Exceptionalism.

Long may it remain exceptional!

Overheal

The Department says they are not releasing the officers name because he is not charged with a crime.

I find this position to be ridiculous. Officer saves dogs from burning fire, and his name is plastered all over the Law & Crime Network. That officer was not charged with a crime and he was on a crime scene. Here, there's already enough public information to where the officer could be identified, just, identify him, as though goons on 4chan haven't already. #imho

Here's another compilation of all the angles of the incident available to date.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfyEc8O58nI&t=212s

Can anyone else identify how many times the suspect struck the officer, hitting, etc? I didn't see any, the suspect had a free hand at many points during his resisting arrest, but he never used it to attack the officer. This will be the matter of fact here that I believe puts this officer in prison for this. According to eyewitness on scene, suspect had not grabbed the officers tazer (he did).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931342#Comment_118931342

Sweet Jaysis, give it a break. I was replying to a different poster. Nothing to do with you or in direct response to the 'topic matter ' of the thread. You don't have to be involved in everything🙄🙄

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931324#Comment_118931324

Oh yeah, it's not the only factor, but there is something about the Americans and guns and 'their right to bear arms' that they seem to believe shooting people is one of the first solutions to an issue, not the last!

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931770#Comment_118931770

Take it to PM if you think your conversation is beyond response by third parties?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931796#Comment_118931796

You can respond all you like, but respond to the conversation that was being had. Coming on telling me I'm not talking about the topic matter. Seriously man, get a grip. I

I won't be continuing this with you any further

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931812#Comment_118931812

The conversation being had is the US police shooting of Patrick Lyoya. “Get a grip?” And you accused me of animosity?

Overheal

"Lyoya does not appear to have any former convictions or criminal history."

https://www.the-sun.com/news/5122931/patrick-lyoyas-criminal-history/

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118929017#Comment_118929017

some people think every thing i about them selfs isnt that right kid ?

as i ve said here and during your your little rant in pm your hatred of police is palpable and very obvious in your posting history , trying to attack every one who points that out isnt getting you anywhere apart from showing yuo up as very childish .

no surprising

if you cant discuss the topic of the thread then you shouldn't be here at all , instead of misrepresenting something that is clearly on film in front of every one , but we have seen that from you before too

hands up dont lie :-)

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931230#Comment_118931230

i wonder why the cop said multiple times let go of the tazer if lyoya had no weapon , if he had the tazer what was next the pistol , seems likely doesn't it , to a reasonable person that is .....

Overheal

your hatred of police is palpable and very obvious in your posting history

Let's see any example, if you insist on making it the topic of this thread, especially given:

if you cant discuss the topic of the thread then you shouldn't be here at all

Do you not adhere to that?

misrepresenting something that is clearly on film in front of every one

When did this misrepresentation occur

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932235#Comment_118932235

Correct, that was the officers tazer. Lyoya did not possess a weapon of his own. The user I was talking to remarked the officer must have assumed he had a gun, as we can see from the video though, Lyoya presented no concealed weapons of any kind. In fact, Lyoya didn't even appear to hit the officer, with many opportunities to do so.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931396#Comment_118931396

Czechia is the other exception. That the Czechs have nowhere near the same levels of firearms violence as the US, despite being what in the US is considered a "shall-issue" jurisdiction (If you jump through the hoops, you cannot be denied a permit to carry, there are a quarter-million permits on issue), is evidence of the attitudes that people in the US have towards the respect of life in the first place. It's not that they're more likely to have a gun, it's that they're more likely to unlawfully use it.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932492#Comment_118932492

Did you ever hear the story about a few Russians who decided to try rob Dave's Western gunshop in Prague,

Dave is really Davina who's a multiple cowboy action shooter champion as well as practical pistols and rifle titles to her name

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932772#Comment_118932772

No, I can't say I have.

Can I assume it didn't go well for the Russians? I was able to find the shop online, but no immediate hits on the story.

Beasty

If I had left this thread open it would have been without most of the posters. Thread closed to save many of you from threadbans