Secret Vatican Archives

jolivmmx

I was watching a documentary about the Secret life of Issa, and how some people believe that there are records of Jesus in India. I am fascinated by the non-Canonical gospels, pre-council of Nicaea. I am also fascinated that certain gnostic sects of Christianity believed in reincarnation pre-council of Constantinople.

I am sure that there are records of all of this in the secret archives.

What do people reckon is hiding in there?

Manach

Offhand, you can book a tour to see them as they are open to the public: https://www.thevaticantickets.com/vatican-archives/

jolivmmx

Does that include the gnostic gospels?

I wonder if they have any information on the lost years of Jesus.

Do you know in the fragment where scholars wonder what the missing words were, regarding kissing his disciple, Mary Magdalene, in certain gnostic gospels, surely the Vatican possess the original copies?

jolivmmx

Some scholars state that Jesus preached about reincarnation. I would love to see the records about this

HorseSea

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880591#Comment_118880591

Parts of the archive continue to remain classified.

jolivmmx

Some people believe that it contains evidence that Jesus is a myth.

jolivmmx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880709#Comment_118880709

What are they hiding? Especially amongst the ancient documents

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880609#Comment_118880609

1. The Gnostic gospels are not secret. They are available online
2. They say nothing about the "lost years". By and large, they are "sayings gospels"; they ascribe various sayings or teachings to Jesus, but they don't give biographical information, or accounts of what he did; just what he taught.
3. Why would the Vatican posses the original copies?

The "Vatican Secret Archives" are secret as in private, not secret as in mysterious hidden knowledge. They are the kind of secrets that a secretary keeps. They contain administrative records - accounts, correspondence, reports - not scriptural or theological texts (those are in the Vatican Library).

They've been open to researchers since the late nineteenth century. There is still a closed section that cannot be accessed without special permision, but that contains the very newest records, relating to business still ongoing or to people still alive or only recently dead, not the very oldest.

homer911

Christianity doesn't need conspiracy theories, people have enough issues struggling with the truth of the Bible

jolivmmx

I was looking on Reddit. People were going on about the third secret of Fatima. What is the story with that?

smacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882489#Comment_118882489

With respect, if you're looking for informed comment on the history surrounding the bible I don't think Reddit is going to be much use. If you're genuinely interested in a critical look at early Christianity, Bart Ehrman is perhaps worth a read. Lost Christianities in particular gives good coverage on early proto-Christian texts that didn't get included in the New Testament.

Peregrinus

The Third Secret of Fatima isn't an early Christianity thing, though. Completely a twentieth-century business.

Esoteric speculation about what's in the Third Secret of Fatima is hampered by the fact that the whole thing was published, in full, in 2000, and Google will take you there in two shakes of a lamb's tail, if you're interested. But that kind of transparency has never bothered the manufacturers of conspiracy theories and the devotees of secret knowledge.

jolivmmx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882916#Comment_118882916

what was the part about Russia? And why did it take so long to publish it?

looksee

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/world/global/051400pope-fatima-secret.html

There is part of it, as Peregrinus says, very easy to google. The bit about Russia is to do with various popes consecrating Russia to Mary, again easy enough to check up and find the version you wish to read.

jolivmmx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883441#Comment_118883441

I have read. Is there likely an unreleased part of the third secret of Fatima?

Peregrinus

There is no reason to think so.

Thinkingaboutit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118886858#Comment_118886858

I would disagree. The supposed releases of Third Secret is at best incomplete. Some suggest it predicts widespread apostasy in the Church Militant (that on earth v the Church Triumphant in Heaven), starting at the top. Let's just say I can certainly understand why some take the position. Sr Lucia became a sort of pawn of others and the present trials can only foster suspicion.

jolivmmx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118904408#Comment_118904408

It was meant to be about the decline of faith and specifically in Rome. She supposedly made apocalyptic predictions and it was too terrible for her to write until she was compelled to do so.

They were compelled to share the news either by 1960 or Lucia’s death, as the meaning would become apparent by then.

The published secret does not fulfil any of the above

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118904408#Comment_118904408

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118905503#Comment_118905503

"Some suggest" it was about X? She "supposedly made" predictions about Y?

Seriously, guys, you both seem pretty credulous. Where are you hearing these rumours? Why do you lend them any credence? Whose authority are you accepting? Why?

Madeleine Birchfield

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058240284/secret-vatican-archives

It was the Apostle St. Thomas rather Jesus himself who was rumoured to have traveled to India in 52 AD to convert people to Christianity:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_the_Apostle#Mission_in_India

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Thomas_Christians#Tradition_of_origin

Thinkingaboutit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118909231#Comment_118909231

The muddled Secret supposed revealed in 2000 which as near as had JP2 in a starring role was hardly credible. The Dominican Cardinal, Mario Luigi Ciappi told Professor Baumgartner that the secret involved apostasy at the top. There are so many recent statements which show they do not have the Faith, Cardinal Hollerich is just one recent example. I therefore think the rumoured Secret which matches what has been happening is better than something spun around the now fading cultus of JP2.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914079#Comment_118914079

How would Cardinal Ciappi have known what the Third Secret was?

Thinkingaboutit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914146#Comment_118914146

A personal theologian to the Popes from 1955 to 1989 (ie Pius XII to JP2), Cardinal from 1977, is the likeliest to know the actual contents of the Third Secret, after the Pope. What has been released could be a character of mental reservation, covering an attack on the Pope and Papacy, but not covering the loss of Faith. All we have are hints and Fatima devotions.