If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
Hello All, This is just a friendly reminder to read the Forum Charter where you wish to post before posting in it. :)
Hi all, The AutoSave Draft feature is now disabled across the site. The decision to disable the feature was made via a poll last year. The delay in putting it in place was due to a bug/update issue. This should serve as a reminder to manually save your drafts if you wish to keep them. Thanks, The Boards Team.
Hello all! This is just a quick reminder to ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere.

The health service - most damning report yet

  • 04-04-2022 12:31pm
    Registered Users Posts: 7,837 ✭✭✭ BrianD3

    Unplanned (i.e. through A&E) care in 9 hospitals in 2018/2019 has been reviewed. The findings should be shocking, but umm, they aren't for anyone with direct experience of our death, sorry health service.

    No clear understanding of who was providing the patients' care.

    "Safari rounds" ( I think that means walking around hospitals looking for patients scattered around the hospital)

    Harm introduced through non specialist care.

    Hospitals not operating a 24/7 care model

    Problems at weekends

    Not appearing to provide safe and effective care

    Hospital staff didn't know who was in charge



    The HSE didn't want the report published as they claim it is no longer relevant due to changes being made since. Absolute bull, of course it is relevant. I await the spin about how the problems in the health service are mainly due to Covid and how it was out of their control. Now everyone wear a mask and keep your distance.

    As for the strategy to shift demands to the community - care in the community, from homecare to physiotherapy to public health nursing to nursing homes - shambolic.

    Also, re: the 9 hospitals reviewed, IME there are even worse hospitals out there such as the Eye and Ear and Mayo General.

    A few years ago, two of my close relatives died after attending A&Es in different public hospitals for conditions that while needing urgent attention, would not normally be expected to result in death in a modern health system. I suppose they were just "unlucky".

    That's two in one small family, There must be thousands of others who have experienced similar, the death toll from this may well dwarf the death toll from Covid.

    And yet, six figure salaries and fat pensions will still be paid. The HSE is in existence since 2005, that should have been our "NHS moment" but 17 years later, here we are. How much has been paid to a succession of Ministers, Dept of Health officials and HSE senior people in those 17 years. This serpent has many heads.




  • Posts: 0 Josie Teeny Muck

    The HSE response is at the bottom of the linked article.

    “In opting not to publish the report in 2020, the HSE told the Department of Health that the benefit of releasing the report has significantly diminished in that its principle recommendation was to accelerate the implementation of the Capacity Review of 2018 and that many measures had been put in place since.

    HSE Chief Operations Officer Anne O'Connor told the Department of Health that the review had been conducted at a particular point in time, during 2019 and "prior to the impact of the learning from winter 2018/2019".

    She said the findings of the review were largely predictable and reflective of work already under way, including shifting demand to the community.

    Ms O'Connor said that the relevance and usefulness of the findings of the review had been considered in the context of the accelerated improvements made to deal with Covid-19.

    "Therefore, the HSE has taken a decision not to proceed to finalisation and publication of a report that no longer has relevance," she told the Department of Health.”

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,764 ✭✭✭✭ blanch152

    We spend huge amounts of taxpayer money per capita on the health service. It isn't a case of money, it isn't a case of politicians being able to fix it either, no legislation or Ministerial direction will change the poor quality of nurse management and poor practices on the ground by frontline staff, neither will it stop idiots turning up at A&E on a Friday night, just needing to sleep off drink and drugs.

  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 18,573 ✭✭✭✭ cnocbui

    Absolutely. Ireland has one of the highest expenditures on healthcare in the OECD and the worst outcomes. Everyone knows that a large portion of the money is just a torrent of € going into the pockets of the HSE management layer that is hugely overpopulated and mostly unnecessary, but it's one of those generally known uncomfortable truths Ireland can't mentally deal with or openly and publicly acknowledge .

    In Australia they would have been made redundant two decades ago. Here? - not a chance. The government can't get it's head around the civil sector being over financed compared to what is delivered, when compared to the norm in the EU or OECD.

    Ireland doesn't do 'consequences'. I will always remember a few years ago a newspaper article about the national childrens hospital mess, where the minister for health said something like 'there needs to be an enquiry into matters, but it's important that a core element be that no individuals are to be identified, reported on or actioned.'

    Hopeless - I'm off.

    Ireland second-highest OECD health spending, poorest outcomes

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,764 ✭✭✭✭ blanch152

    With a problem that big, no Ministerial direction or legislation can solve it.

    A lot of it comes from organisational behaviour, a culture of poor performance that permeates the health service right down to the frontline.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,943 ✭✭✭ kirk.

    People are turning up at a+e because of the GP issues, delays getting appointments

    Also the out-of-hours service is scaled down and it's simply handier to present at a+e out-of-hours ,here a+e is much nearer destination

    Also the docs on the out-of-hours tend to refer you to a+e for minor stuff anyway as a precaution so it was simpler to bypass them anyway

    There's a couple of reasons anyhow plus the hypochondriacs with medical cards

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,943 ✭✭✭ kirk.

    Has Donnelly even said anything about solutions aside from hiding behind covid

    I really don't recall him saying much of substance on the hse

  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 5,627 ✭✭✭ Ubbquittious

    How hard do they need to damn before something gets done about it?

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭ Fandymo

    Where do you go in the community after 6pm or on a weekend if something happens??

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,033 ✭✭✭✭ Dyr

    If there's an Irish national charectaristic it's complacency, so long as the next lad is getting rode like you, it's all fine.

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,526 ✭✭✭✭ Dempo1

    I don't ever recall him saying anything of Substance, ever 😏

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,864 ✭✭✭ c.p.w.g.w

    Well if I need a GP appointment, I will typically be waiting 6-15 days for an appointment, they don't open weekends, close for 2.5 hours for lunch...

    That's were the issue lies, also many GP's and primary care facilities use Covid19 to reduce access to services from my experience

  • Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭ babyducklings1

    The system is so broken that people are being turned away when they try to register with a gp!

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,764 ✭✭✭✭ blanch152

    That only proves my point that throwing more money at the HSE and hospitals isn't the solution.

    Developing community care and reducing the numbers of nurses in hospitals is a better solution.

  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 23,764 ✭✭✭✭ blanch152

    It is not just the senior management team, the culture of non-performance goes right through the organisation down to the bottom, with the first-line and middle managers probably the worst of all.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭ cuttingtimber22

    Does that expenditure include private health insurance?

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,526 ✭✭✭✭ Dempo1

    I absolutely agree with Middle management a serious problem . They seem to be incapable or more likely unable to make day to day decisions.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.

  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]

    Just because they are closed to appointments for 2.5 hours does not mean they are at lunch

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,885 ✭✭✭✭ Strumms

    I’d like to see reports done regarding a&e attendances whereby we find out what percentage of people turning up, quite simply don’t need to be there…I doubt the HSE would be forthcoming with that info, there’d be war…

  • Posts: 0 Josie Teeny Muck

    All GPs will see an ill patient. If you can wait 6-15 days, you’re not ill. Doctors are still working when they’re officially closed. Ringing patients, reviewing blood and other test results.

    Then at weekends there’s the out of hours service, here in Clonmel, Caredoc.

  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭ Fasano

    Every single function of this state is broken, be it Health, justice or Education. Yet somehow the heads of those functions all earn over €200,000 per year.

    With regards Health, we have the head of the Department on a self appointed €292k and the head of the HSE on €411k and yet last night, over 500 people spent the night on trolleys or temporary beds because there were no beds available.

    This will never be sorted out, because it is so deeply ingrained in the public sector here, short of a dictator coming in and ripping up the rule books, any politician who even tries to address this will fail miserably.

  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 7,837 ✭✭✭ BrianD3

    It goes beyond normal public sector incompetence. Every HSE senior executive, hospital consultant, DOH official, Minister for Health, GP etc is practically guaranteed to have private health insurance for themselves and their families. And not basic plans either.

    PHI won't necessarily help them in an emergency situation but it does insulate them from much of the rest of the sh1tshow that is our public health service.

    Salaries will be paid unless they kill someone directly. Indirectly killing thousands of people through inaction - no consequences.