Starter car advice

Kimi450

Hey all, Ive been looking into buying a starter car for myself in Cork. My budget is ideally around 4k for the car + under 1.8k insurance.

Ive done some research already to see how much the car would cost upfront and how much itd end up costing me over 5 years (Ill keep the car for at least this much time). The screenshot below shows the summary. The 5 year insurance cost is based on a hueristic quadratic function (45.8889*x^2 + 392.841*x + INITIAL_PREMIUM) which gave a decent estimate of how the cost will go down over 5 years based on the data I got from manually checking for the Punto and Agila.

At the moment, the cars highlighted are the ones I am considering.

Start off by discussing each car here:

2008 Punto: This was my first choice, cheap car but the insurance is pretty high. Its a decent looking car too. Fiats however arent known for their reliability which is a concern. Has like 136k km on it.

2008 Polo: This is a cheap car, insurance is cheap too but with 220k kms its pretty run down. And since its an 08, its also pretty old.

2010 Agila: I know nothing about this car other than whats on the spreadsheet above :p

2008 Yaris: This is a very good car in terms of reliability I believe, but I really dont like the styling of it. Its fairly old as well tbf. But its the cheapest car overall that I can buy (over 5 years)

2012 Panda: This I think looks like a very good option. 2012 so its the newest one thats affordable and has less than 70k kms. Slightly more upfront cost but over the years itll pay for itself with the really cheap insurance. But again, Fiat

The things I do not know about at all are how good these cars are. I am working purely off of what they look like and the numbers. I would like to see if any of ye have any input on how reliable these cars are, which one I should probably go for as a started car, etc. Anything really would be useful to me. Thanks!

PS. if anyone wants a copy of the spreadsheet for their own comparisons I can create a template and post it here or something :)

Kimi450

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058239676/starter-car-advice

Cars - Main.pdf

So I wasnt allowed to post links cause I just created my account, so heres a pdf of the same spreadsheet where you can get the links to the cars I am talking about above. Thanks!

BronsonTB

2008 Punto: Old so reliability is questionable.

2008 Polo: Old & high mileage

2010 Agila: Too miuch of an unknown

2008 Yaris: Best of your list

2012 Panda: Still 10 years old...

No matter what option you pick, I really doubt you'll get 5 years trouble free from any of these.

Just to point out the life of a car that you didn't buy brand new, is generally regarded as 10 years. Anything you get after that is a bonus. And some do last alot longer as well.

But I'd only be buying one of these to get your NCD started & some exprience. I would not be looking over a 5 year timeframe at all esp if talking costs.

Mileage & service history can have a HUGE impact on how good or long a car will last.

Good luck with whatever you buy. I bought a Ford fiesta as a first car to get started & it served me very well.

Kimi450

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118861244#Comment_118861244

Thanks for that! Im stuck between the Yaris and the Panda to be honest.

Why would the Yaris be a better choice even though its older and has more miles on it (website says 200k vs 68k for the yaris vs panda respectively)? Would that give the Panda the edge then or is the Yaris just that good of a tank?

What should I look out for in terms of the service history?

BronsonTB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118861394#Comment_118861394

Do either car have a Service History? This means you can see when & where it was serviced, has it be well maintained, good owners. Also no harm doing a history check on Cartell, will show if history matches up, recorded NCT mileage etc.

Kimi450

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118862104#Comment_118862104

I can call up the dealerships and ask. A car with a well maintained service history but high miles vs no history and low miles. Which one would better, hypothetically speaking? Ill look up the thread about buying a used car (I saw it earlier but couldnt get to read it then). Im currently thinking about either the Panda or the Yaris, but honestly leaning more towards the Panda. Are there any websites where I can check how reliable/easy to fix/maintain these cars are?

PS. Would the yaris with 200k km be worth purchasing? Thats a lot of wear I would think, like with the polo

Stallingrad

Very hard to see beyond the Yaris. Not sexy but it's is a perfect tool for reliable motoring to get some experience under you belt and build up your no claims. They are unbelievably reliable, economical and cheap to repair, I'd take one over a Fiat or anything else all day long.

fryup

Mitsubishi Colt - bulletproof

Kimi450

Looks like the Yaris might be sold already. I checked the motor tax website and it says a new registration was issues over a week ago :(

The next non-privately sold Yaris in Cork is like 6k which is a bit too much. What're your thoughts on a Skoda Fabia by the way? I have heard that is supposed to be reliable too (along with the Polo). Would they be in the same league as the Yaris? If anyone has any other car suggestions too throw them my way, the list will keep growing!

Update of the spreadsheet (honestly I think at this point I just love looking at the graphs from it)

Buddy Bubs

I'm a bit of a numbers need too and do fancy graphs in work for projections etc....they rarely work out in reality! Motoring is infamous for unexpected bills, especially with older cars like you are looking at with a low budget. Remember that a 4 grand car is what used to go for 2k only a couple of years ago. They are overpriced now.

Ditch the graphs and functions and find yourself a well maintained car with a recent nct with lowish mileage that you can get insured on comparably cheaply.

200k on that yaris is pretty high for the type of car you are looking at, there will be plenty lower out there. The Panda sounds a decent bet assuming it had been looked after.

Casati

Fair play for putting together such a brillant spreadsheet, you are coming at car ownership with your eyes wide open, very few people do this.

I do think you could add an extra colum to your spreadsheet and that is estimated retained value in five years so you can arrive at the net cost of ownership - Ie the Fabia is likely to be worth the most in five years. Your retained value could be estimated by looking for the cheapest five year older version of each car your buying on donedeal eg for the Fabia find the cheapest 2010 for sale and add in that price as your retained value.

fryup

ya, James May would love you OP 😉

wonski

I think you really should look at a cost in 1-2 years perspective max.

Don't worry about 2025or 2027 yet, things can change a lot by then.

Insurance is worst part in first year, but after getting ncb after a year your premium should go down significantly as you will be able to be quoted by more insurers than when you are new on the road.

Fabia could be more cost friendly as it is lowest purchase cost, cheap servicing parts and you might be able to buy newer model than Yaris for the same money, which will improve your insurance options as some companies might refuse to quote if the car is older than 10 years old.

Unfortunately you are entering the market at worst time possible, prices of second hand cars are so unstable.

Good luck with your search, you look well prepared, but I would focus on the cheapest most effective way to get on the road now and not to worry about 5 years ahead.

Make sure the car you buy is free of faults, recently NCTd and in overall good condition. Get a mechanic to have a good look over to not to buy a lemon.

Kimi450

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118874219#Comment_118874219

I will be calling a Fabia guy tomorrow morning, thanks for confirming that itll be cheap to maintain :p Its listed for 5.5k but Ill try to get it down to 4-4.5 hopefully.

If just getting on the road is important for now (in the cheapest way possible), would a high mileage Polo (240k km) be of any use?

Polo: carsireland.ie/3062147

Fabia: donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/skoda-fabia-1-2-petrol/30268422

Sorry for the weird links, they dont allow me to post em just yet :p

kanuseeme

First off, I am impressed by the thought and effort you put in to your first car, I wish you the best.

Have you looked at hybrid cars?

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/honda-insight-1-4-ze2-cvt-5dr-auto/30803052

I had one of those, bullet proof, 20km+ a liter.

Kimi450

I did have a look at electrics but not hybrids (thought theyd be expensive to fix if something were to go wrong). Unfortunately electrics are just too expensive for a decent one. And that car there is too far away for me to get to :p

Id prefer something as close as possible to Cork City cause ill get a friend to drive me up and then organise a delivery with the dealer. Ill try to get a better insurance deal than whatever quote I get as I have had a foreign Non EU license for 4 years.

I did call up the Fabia guy there to see if there was any room for negotiation on the price but he said its set at 5.5k and thats it, and when I asked about a service history he wasnt sure about it either. So I doubt theres a full history of that. Which makes me want to kind of steer clear of this one. Theres another one too which Ill give a ring at lunchtime hopefully later. I have a dream that Ill be able to find my dream car for my dream price :D

If the Fabias dont work out might be forced to go with the 240k Polo cause it does seem decent other than the distance travelled. Lets see! Thanks for all the help guys, Im keeping my options open still so feel free to suggest more stuff!

kanuseeme

I picked that car because some of the other hybrids had over 300 000 km on them, a lot of dealers will pick you up at a bus or train station, even private sellers, insurance could be arrange with a phone call.

As for reliability nearly every 2nd taxi is a hybrid, lots of guys that can fix hybrid battery packs, even Toyota give a warranty for 15 years on the batteries.

Kimi450

Lil update, was going to go buy a 2008 yaris yesterday. Called axa to get a better quote, was able to get 1.4k down to 1.25k (would recommend* note below). They then realised the car is more than 11 years old so then they refused to insure me on it :) Back to the drawing board for essentially cars thatre 2012 and over...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SEluYRxQaQ5AbwFYUjFSlalZpyrEvytiyt9hKMGMfIQ/edit#gid=0

Note: Get an axa quote online after navigating from their base website to the car insurance site (they add a cookie to your session which gives you an extra 5% off if youve visited their main site before). Then call them and theyll give you another ~10% off apparently

What can your budget stretch too? If it's 5k or so, go japanese. Honda civic / Honda Jazz / Honda Insight.

Toyota Corolla / Auris / Yaris

Stay clear of German cars that are 10+ years old, golfs, polo, fabia's as they are not as reliable.

Kimi450

Im trying for Japanese cars yea but they are really hard to find :( I was under the impression that Euro cars (VWs, Skodas) were reliable especially in the early 10s. I would like to keep the total cost under 6k. And insurance on average would be 1.5k, so I presume the max I would push the price of the car would be 4.5-5k (if its a really good deal).

Kimi450

Im back with another question, would one prefer an older car with lower mileage + a full service history, or a newer car (through a trader) with significantly higher mileage (150k km vs 240k km)?

Cars in question

2011 Clio

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/renault-clio-2011/30961359

2008 Polo

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/volkswagen-polo-2008-new-nct/31453302

Such a pain to find a good car thats not priced like gold.

Kimi450

Hey all,

Thanks for all the help and advice. I put a deposit on a 2012 Yaris Terra yesterday and will get it Monday.

Price: 4500

Insurance: 1300

Tax: 200

Seemed like a good deal.

Kimi450

You can view my analysis sheet here, ive locked it now. Feel free to make a copy and use for your stuff too, I found it handy for budgets and stuff

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SEluYRxQaQ5AbwFYUjFSlalZpyrEvytiyt9hKMGMfIQ/edit?usp=sharing

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119247866#Comment_119247866

You did ok. Them Yaris's are bomb proof and cheap to run.

Keep it between the ditches

green123

Seems very cheap. Maybe too cheap? Average prices of 2012 yaris are 6000 or 7000 and lots over 8000.

Did you get a mechanic or someone who knows about cars to check that it's OK?

Kimi450

Yeah I found it to be really cheap too, but thats cause theres a lotta cosmetic stuff wrong with it. It was a learners car so theres a good few dinks and scratches (that he fixed with spray paint) on it. So that probably caused the price to go down a lot. Had 180k kms on it too so thats probably another factor. It was also the very base model, has basically nothing on it :D Doesnt even have a rev counter lmao

It was just me who tested it, it seemed to drive fine and there was no evidence of a big crash. The only issues I found were the cosmetics (idc about that), the heating wouldnt turn on properly till I drove the car (minor issue) and that the last service was 6 months ago (so the oil was kinda golden/black). So in all, it seemed like a fair price for the car. Not sure if the heating is a big issue now tbh either, might be?

But at least it being a toyota means that it wont really die on me and thats a major plus.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119248608#Comment_119248608

Is the oil golden or greyish white looks like a head gasket gone.

Kimi450

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119248618#Comment_119248618

It wasnt greyish-white/creamy (that was the first thing I checked). It was golden with like black stuff I believe. Ill get teh car on monday. I couldnt transfer the money to him because BoI puts a 1k limit on new payees.

I think it was like at 6ish

Ill update again I guess on monday when I get the car.

User1998

I must say you really went about this whole car purchase the wrong way. The amount of time and effort that must have went into that silly excel sheet calculating minuscule differences in fuel consumption, complete guesswork maintenance costs, etc. only for you to go and buy a car privately with little mechanical knowledge, no expert opinion and no background check.

Dont get me wrong, congrats on the new car and I hope it goes well for you. But that graph and formulae is a bit OTT

Kimi450

I did all I couldve done with the online help I found. Gotta do what you can with what you have I suppose. Thanks anyway

PS The formula was changed to something way simpler after having a chat with the insurance company.

walshtipp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119248973#Comment_119248973

Well done and best of luck with the car. Yaris is a great car to start in.