Ramadan-Working hours

whomitconcerns

So i have a team member, who will begin fasting this week. I have had many muslims working on teams over the years and well used to the accomodations. However this is a bit different. We are a 9-5ish software sales company working UK time, they are currently working from home, and as it happens will work from Morocco for the next month.

Where this gets complex, in the past I have always been of the expectation that they need more leeway in afternoons as thats when the lethargy/hunger really kicks in, so always been mindful.

This employee says that she cant work mornings and will work afternoons instead. They are suggesting working from 12pm Morocco time to 9pm moroccco time give or take. (1pm-10pm Irish time)..this is a junior person btw...and not someone normally rolling to me..hence not normally on my plate..., I dont really mind the specific hours, I'm more of a get the job done person, but as its a calling role, they cant really do their job if they are out all morning and working that late?

Anyone have any insights, as mentioned, its the first time I have come across this particular issue, maybe its specific to morocco?

Caranica

Most companies stipulate that working from home requires you to be in Ireland, for tax reasons if nothing else. Are they required to go to Morocco or just being facilitated?

What does their contract say and working hours and flexibility?

whomitconcerns

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118857689#Comment_118857689

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058239564/ramadan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058239564/ramadan

Being facilitated only. They are there for a month only. Working hours are specified but as with most software companies, doesn't have to be 9-5 but within reason

How many customers would call her between 5pm and 10pm?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118858143#Comment_118858143

US ones might............. If they have US offices or customer bases

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118858161#Comment_118858161

Do you work with the op?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118858167#Comment_118858167

Nope. Capital letters "US" mean United States. It doesn't mean "us". Just in case you were confused

starbaby2003

I don’t understand how their requests ties into Ramadan? Sounds like it is more linked to being at home and needing to work around someone else’s schedule.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118858201#Comment_118858201

I’m not confused, surely what the op should do depends on whether HAVE customers who the employee could communicate with during the later work hours rather than your answer about who MIGHT be calling. If they work 9-5, that would indicate they primarily deal with companies operating in that time zone.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118858128#Comment_118858128

This is a curious one for me as I'll be in a similar situation myself come September. As you are, get the job done, plenty of leeway. A few things I need to find questions to myself and a couple of questions to you.

It seems you don't deal with your colleague very much. Do you know if they're reliable, will work efficiently during family visits. Noticed a junior, so family pressure perhaps and no support from senior colleagues.

Is there follow ups on eod queries they can do so as to make the 9-5ers jobs easier when they roll in in the morning irish time. Might be a head start for them!

Most importantly, I suppose, what is your companies stand on this? I don't think taxation comes into it. Although it security might if not using a secure network(your organisation). Broadband okay?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118858248#Comment_118858248

Many companies work across multiple timezones. If the persons job requires them just calling people up to 5pm Irish time, with no other options, then there is no need for the thread. It would be a bit like a nightclub barman saying they want to change their hours to work from 6am-3pm and still keep their job.

So either the company have another customer base or else there are other possible tasks which the person can plausibly do during those hours.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118858311#Comment_118858311

Hence why the op’s answer is the only one that matters as it relates to the employee in question.

Most importantly, I suppose, what is your companies stand on this? I don't think taxation comes into it. Although it security might if not using a secure network(your organisation). Broadband okay?

That really shouldnt be a problem. I work in IT Security. So long as the company has TLS on perimeter devices, you can connect from anywhere and it should still be secure.

TBH, no part of this quandary relates to Ramadan. Your employee has gone home for the month of Ramadan, but will continue to work. The quandary is their request to work at strange hours. I suppose it depnds who they are calling as part of their job. If Only the Irish market then its a non-starter. If global, it might work fine.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118858611#Comment_118858611

I agree. Are there tasks they can do out of hours that'll benefit the team when they come in the next morning, then I'd say grand. If they need hand holding, then it's a half day.

I still wouldn't make this your call alone. Get advice internally.

Also no idea what network security they have. 110% right about TLS(depending on what version).

Should this be in legal? I think you'd get more experienced answers in work & jobs forum.

whomitconcerns

They are only calling UK and Ireland market. They only work for the company for 4 months. They are not a direct report but 3 levels down. But I am covering.

Caranica

I think the employee is taking the proverbial. Being accommodated to move location for a month plus seeking to be accommodated on working hours that seems to look like they'll only be working half hours as calls can't be made at half the time they want to work. I wouldn't give the second concession and I don't see why the employer would be obligated to do so.

DFB-D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118860172#Comment_118860172

I agree with Carnica on this.

It is quite flexible to accommodate employee work remotely from outside the state, especially as there may be taxation issues in the country they choose to work from.

But what resonates the most with me is that they have stated they cannot work the mornings rather than asking for an accommodation based on a particular day's activities. I think you need to reaffirm that there is no entitlement to modify hours or location, it is at the companies descretion on an individual basis.

I would be inclined to reject unless it was limited to a few days.

backwards_man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118860172#Comment_118860172

I would not allow it. I have staff located in the middle east during Ramadan and they work hours that suit Ireland. I allowed one team member to go to Asia to visit family and they worked Irish hours. Did HR not put a stipulation to work normal business hours when they granted the request to go to ME for 1 month? 4 months into a job is not even past probation. She is lucky she was allowed to travel home for an extended period and work.

Deeec

I think you are being more than generous by allowing them to work in another country.. There is no obligation on an employer to accommodate an employees religious beliefs. She needs to work the hours you need her to work and its as simple as that.

MarkR

I would have thought it was down to what was in their contract. Contract says 9-5, they work 9-5. Other options would be holidays or unpaid leave for portions of the day maybe.

seannash

I have experienced this in the company I work for. When working outside of Ireland they are still expected to keep the same hours as the Ireland office.

If they can do emails outside of hours then it might work but them doing emails will be little comfort to the people who get hit up will calls on a Monday morning as most call centres do.

What is written in the work away policy for the company? Have they got anywhere that states the minimum internet requirements for remote work as well?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058239564/ramadan-working-hours

What's Ramadan got to do with any of this. Surely it's a timezone issue

TryingNot2Lie

Lets get a few things pinned down. Ramadan has nothing to do with this quandary.

To be honest, her working in another country for a month has nothing to do with it either.

The real issue is, she wants to work, outside of normal operating hours. After 6pm I ignore calls from non-contacts. I am sure most people are the same. I am certainly unlikely to buy a product from a cold caller at 8pm.

No, that doesn't work for you or the company. The answer is no.

whomitconcerns

That's my thoughts also. I want to be accommodating but the company I'm with now is a small company, there is only 2 others on her team. They will be impacted. But appreciate all the added comment. It's a business development role, so do need someone responding to leads etc in real time..

JimmyVik

We have Muslims where I work and they are happy to work normally during Ramadan. Makes no odds to them at all. They are used to it.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118860653#Comment_118860653

Ramadan is basically just being used as clickbait for what is a straight forward situation.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118858128#Comment_118858128

Perhaps allow her to take annual leave for all the mornings they are in Morocco, and they are work the balance of the normal working hours for the afternoon.

Unless there is productive work they can do after 5pm, why allow it?

whomitconcerns

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118860851#Comment_118860851

well if you are suggesting i mentioned it as clickbait..thats not the case. This is a specific situation that they have put our company in, under the guise of ramadan restrictions. I had no doubt its not ok, but was keen to see if anyone else had opinions/experience of such a suggestion.

YFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118858167#Comment_118858167

What made you suggest?