Why KIA are the new Toyota.

AMKC

In my opinion Kia are the new Toyota. You could drive a KIA into the sea and take it out and just like that Toyota Highlux on Top Gear years ago the Kia would still work. Do all the other things they done to it to and the Kia would still work.

My Mum has an 08 Rio saloon. It's nothing special to drive or look at but it just keeps going and going unfortunetly lol. Yes I secretly want it to fail so she would buy a better more modern safer car. I thought I could convince her into a lovely second hand Skoda Octavia a few years ago but no she loves her little Rio. She loves it well at least did when she drove it often. It has a wait for it tape deck. You will not get one of them in a modern car.

bazz26

colm_mcm

Wash out your mouth.

I’d see a Kia Rio having more in common with a Russian Lada- both will likely drive on for years but that’s where the comparisons to a Toyota 4X4 end.

However, the Kia EV6 is a great looking car, especially if purchased in the right colour (not white)- and with an expanding EV range, Kia sales will definitely smash Toyotas market over the coming years. as Toyota is far behind now in the EV stakes

When it comes to electric vehicles in some respects the clock is reset - the past glories of brand reliability based on good engines is meaningless - I would never have considered purchasing a Hyundai but I’d be proud of an Ionic 5 outside my door right now as it looks fab in olive green ( not white) .

An MG is a meaningless Chinese brand essentially but with a high range and relative lower cost compared to other manufacturers like VW, because it’s an EV, it will sell very well- I think what will influence peoples choices in the future will be gadgets comfort, acceleration when needed and luxury specs - the brand will be less important.

Toyota can’t rely on “the best built cars” slogan anymore -

Toyotafanboi

The only (large) difference being Kia aren't well built or reliable.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Kia are about as exciting as washing the dishes.

The stinger is quite cool but...Toyota they ain't.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118832734#Comment_118832734

That is where you ate wrong. The Rio has not gave a moments trouble unfortunately lol and neither have the 3 Sportages that the Dad has had.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118832756#Comment_118832756

It's not that long ago that Toyota were like that too it's only lately that Toyota have started to make good looking cars.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118832734#Comment_118832734

My father in law has an 08 Rio still running fine. Wife has a 2010 Ceed without issues and I have an Optima phev without issues.

They seem pretty reliable. An 89 Camry on a farm with a ridiculous amount of miles? Not sure yet but they aren't unreliable and are well put together.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118832734#Comment_118832734

You wouldn’t have a Toyota bias by any chance? 😛

Toyotafanboi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118832944#Comment_118832944

Not really, i dont think they've made a good car in the last two decades.

The difference is when Toyota used to say they were the best built cars in the world, say late 80's to early 00's stuff, their product was very well built and very reliable notably moreso than a lot of other cars on the market.

Now, lots of manufacturers seem to make consistently reliable products, Kia I would say though is not one.

A simple story of "my daddy owns a Kia and it hasn't broken down" doesn't make them a good car.

My own opinion would be conparing the Kia of the today to the Toyota of 20 years ago in reliabililty/ build quality terms shows how little someonw actually knows about the two brands.

It's also a brand expectation/ ownership expectation type of opinion, as was pointed out before on here. A bit like how the Skoda Octavia would generally fare better than a VW Golf in ownership surveys, despite largely being the same car.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833015#Comment_118833015

The difference is when Toyota used to say they were the best built cars in the world, say late 80's to early 00's stuff, their product was very well built and very reliable notably moreso than a lot of other cars on the market.

They were also about as exciting as a dishwasher.

Now, lots of manufacturers seem to make consistently reliable products, Kia I would say though is not one.

That is where you are wrong.

It's also a brand expectation/ ownership expectation type of opinion, as was pointed out before on here. A bit like how the Skoda Octavia would generally fare better than a VW Golf in ownership surveys, despite largely being the same car.

Which begs the question Why would you buy a Golf when you can have an Octavia for less although it's not as much as it used to be but it's still less and you get a better packaged bigger more spacious better looking car in the Octavia now. The only reason I can come up with is badge snopery which I pity.

FlubberJones

Kia are grand masters at making ugly cars, dear me some of the hideous lumps they have on the road at the moment... I'm sure I saw one of the electric ones they do they other day, I still have nightmares about it.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833140#Comment_118833140

Well as they say looks are subjective. You probably think a VW Golf is good looking.

I can not think of one ugly Kia.

I think you might be mistaken them for Ssangyong or Nissan and while the Juke is not to everyone's liking I heard it was very easy to place on the road because of its lights

Toyotafanboi

If you think back to 90's motoring, if you were even alive then, central locking (not remote central locking, just central locking) and electric front windows were exciting. It didn't take a lot.

The difference in 1993 was your Corolla would start first time on a cold morning while the fella next door was choking and cranking the life out of his Escort to try and get it started. That was what made them good, the enjoyment was the dependability.

People buy a Golf because they want one. That's the point, it's a mindset of expectation. Sure a Golf does some things better in reality but it does a lot of things better in the owners mindset and that's what's important and that's why you think Kia are so much better than they are - you've had one and it hasn't broken down, therefore, they all mustn't. Except that isn't reality.

FlubberJones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833155#Comment_118833155

Lol... Nope not a fan of VW to be honest and it was definitely a Kia... and it made me gag

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

So much waffle. Toyota, the company that gave us the Corolla, Celica, Supra, 86, Soarer, MR2 and countless JDM awesome awesome cars. I mean off the top of my head I can think of several legendary engines that Toyota produced and your comparing that to a Kia, which is almost indistinguishable from a Hyundai. If you prefer Kias to Toyotas you either hate cars or hate yourself.

Toyotafanboi

I think the new Sorento wouldn't look out of place with a Great-Wall badge on it.

bazz26

Somebody please try convincing my father that Kia are the new Toyota because he ain't buying it.

He had a 2009 Auris for about 10 years that only had 1 issue in all that time, a leak in the boot from rain getting in via one of the rear lights. He replaced it with a 1 year old Kia Stonic which so far has been back to the Kia dealer 3 times because of an issue with an inaccurate reading fuel gauge. Now it has to go in again next week because the horn stopped working. Not major things but major enough to a man in his mid 70s who was used to driving a car hassle free that only saw a garage when it needed a service. The Stonic was bought to see his driving days out but I honestly don't see him keeping it that long.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833165#Comment_118833165

If you think back to 90's motoring, if you were even alive then, central locking (not remote central locking, just central locking) and electric front windows were exciting. It didn't take a lot.

Lol my uncles 1993 or was it 94 Renault 19 which he won had remote locking and electric windows on it.

The difference in 1993 was your Corolla would start first time on a cold morning while the fella next door was choking and cranking the life out of his Escort to try and get it started. That was what made them good, the enjoyment was the dependability.

No idea if the Escourt was that unreliable or not but it sure was a terrible name for a car. I do know however that the 1997 Megane Classic we had started everytime be it a Summer morning or a cold morning.

That was a great car. Soft touch dash which very few if any others in its class including the dull as dishwater Corrola of the time did not have. Fogs which the pricier Corrola did not have, electric windows and mirrors, remote radio controls, remote central locking a big boot etc. Was way better equipped than the Corolla and just as reliable.

People buy a Golf because they want one. That's the point, it's a mindset of expectation.

They buy one because they are blinded by a dull badge and logo.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833274#Comment_118833274

No neither actually. I love myself. I am having a good year actually.

I will admit if I were to win the lotto tomorrow it would be a Toyota Taris GR4 or whatever it us called I would be buying but I would get the old man a new top of the range Sportage too.

Toyotafanboi

Do you know what they serve for lunch in Kia HQ in Korea?

Hellrazer

From my time with Kia Id have to say they seem to have a built in failure rate that usually happens just as they are hitting they upper limit of the 7 years warranty / 150,000 kms.

Dont get me wrong they are grand when only a few years old but as they get older they just get really prone to stupid failures.

Ive owned a few of them myself (I usually buy for my wife what ever brand Im working with at the time so I can get cheap parts / servicing) but from experience older Kias seem to just fall to pieces around 100k.

I dread to see how bad all these Kia EVs will be after 7 years!!! I think the 1st EV Soul was released in 2015 so just coming up to the end of their 7 year warranty - Id be reluctant to buy a 7 year old Kia EV.

They are definitely NOT the new Toyota!!!!!

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833352#Comment_118833352

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833352#Comment_118833352

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833352#Comment_118833352

Ha lol. That was just so he could not beep at all the Women in the summer wearing short skirts and tops lol.

Really do sorry to hear he is one of the few unlucky ones.

Maybe a Sportage or a Ceed would have been better for him.

kirving

I know that mechanics and end customers will have their preferences - but I work in automotive manufacturing, where Toyota's reputation precedes them still. They are seen as the benchmark for "quality".

"Quality" does not mean the most complex, the best driving, the cheapest, the strongest, or the best looking - but their engineering culture is that of simplifying and honing their design until it's as reliable as possible, while the Germans tend to engineering their way out of a problem instead.

AMKC

Quality" does not mean the most complex, the best driving, the cheapest, the strongest, or the best looking - but their engineering culture is that of simplifying and honing their design until it's as reliable as possible, while the Germans tend to engineering their way out of a problem instead.

Or the Germans over engineer and create problems for themselves.

Toyotafanboi

While the Koreans under engineer which comes with it's own set of problems.

bazz26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833534#Comment_118833534

He doesn't need something the size of a Sportage and doesn't want something with a lower sitting position like the Ceed. And I don't think he is an unlucky one, his son in law needed the clutch replaced on his Optima SW after only 8 months and had to battle Kia to do it too who were blaming the driver despite it being a common issue.

Killer K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833398#Comment_118833398

Hot dog?

goochy

AMKC , you must be the most annoying contributor to Boards motors , do you screenshot your posts to Kia Ireland and hope they might make you a brand ambassador ?

If you send your posts during work , well get back to working

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118834317#Comment_118834317

Ha lol.

goochy

you are the guy sitting at the bar , who people go to other end of bar to avoid.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118834521#Comment_118834521

Lol 🙈

So far off and so cold on many levels.

A bar what's that?

French Toast

I thought Skoda were the new Toyota?

Reliable, boring, farmer's-friend type motors?

Toyotafanboi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118834733#Comment_118834733

Whoa, whoa, whoa 🤔

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118834733#Comment_118834733

Boring Skoda. Will you go out of that. The Octavia is a great looking car one of the best looking in its class in fact. The same with the current superb in the right spec it looks great. Was looking at one on Saturday it had great alloys and looked really classy. I was thinking why would anyone by a boring Audi or VW or even a Volvo when they could have that.

goochy

far off ? cold ? , I don't anyone on boards has every agreed with anything you have come out with ?

Killer K

The simple truth is that a Rio is reliable because there isn't that much in it to go wrong. Similar to a Honda Jazz or Toyota Yaris. There are plenty of other examples from other brands.

Don't think you can single out Kia from Hyundai. Any arguments you would make around reliability in particular pretty much apply to them both.

To say that Kia doesn't make attractive cars is nonsense though. Look at the Xceed, the Proceed and Optima for example (the Stinger too obviously).

Apart from the Stinger, are any of these exhilarating cars to drive? No. However, people get a lot of pleasure from looking out their front window and admiring their car in the drive.

Kia generally don't make cars for the 'petrol head' market (for Europe at least). They have done their research and found that there is a big market for sporty looking cars that aren't performance cars or even much fun to drive! Sheep in wolves clothing if you like. Other manufacturers have gone the same way where at this point, a set of 16 inch wheels on a C segment car (Corolla, Golf, Focus) is starting to look unusual.

Kias are also not bullet proof as some might think (but have come on significantly since the Hyundai takeover). The marketing around the 7 year warranty has also been very successful. VW has managed to trade off the same notion for years - that VWs are very reliable and you will never have any trouble with them. A triumph of marketing over engineering.

If reliability was my main or only criteria when looking at a car, I wouldn't go further than the local Toyota dealership. I don't own or never have owned a Toyota but driven plenty.

Toyotafanboi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118834314#Comment_118834314

Do you reckon they heat it?

lalababa

Ye all should just go to the reliability index to see what cars and manufacturers are best in that department. Although the website is not as good as it used to be, as you cannot look up an individual model atm.

Typically the top scorers are medium and small japanese cars with a few hyundais thrown in. Best of the last 30 years are the mx5, getz, micra having scores of less than 10. Also the lancer. The mx5 is one of the most fantastic engines , I wonder was it put in any other cars?

Killer K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118835031#Comment_118835031

They do for their brand ambassador from Ireland.

Killer K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833352#Comment_118833352

They do sound like very annoying faults. Particularly, having to go in three times to get the first problem resolved.

The stonic is an ideal sized vehicle for someone your father's age.

Of course these type of faults aren't unique to Kia, but everytime AMKC starts a thread like this, posters will feel the need to highlight them!

delly

I'm on my third Ceed estate in a row and each one has been a very reliable drive. They had a lot of spec for less money than the equivalent Hyundai as the dealers broke their back with discounts. The price has gone up now with the popularity, so they know their market pricing, but spec wise there is everything I need, with a lot of safety features.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118836020#Comment_118836020

And they are good looking too. Were you ever tempted by the new Pro Ceed SW at all?

AMKC

That's rubbish and you know it. What someone had to eat does not define how they think or look at things. Besides it's a former Audi designer who is head designer at Kia now.

Killer K

@delly What version of the Ceed Estate do you currently have?

I have the facelifted PHEV.

Killer K

@AMKC You do know we weren't being serious about the dogs?

Peter Schreyer has done a magnificent job at Kia.

delly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118836051#Comment_118836051

I was, but as it was going through the job, it had to be diesel for the VAT, the Proceed was petrol only.

delly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118836108#Comment_118836108

It's a 202, so just before the PHEV came out. I got the nice 18" alloys though, they really make it.

PsychoPete

Even Toyota out done themselves in the 90s and early 00s, that's why I own six of them

Killer K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118836185#Comment_118836185

Haven't seen the 18' alloys on an SW but they look very well on the Xceed.

arthursway

I always found my 90's Toyota's had something go just as much as my BMW's etc it was just cheaper to fix.

I don't think there's much difference between cars these days reliability wise just the cost difference to fix things when they go wrong can vary quite significantly between car manufacturers.