Crate training Advice

dashcamdanny

Hi. Just got a new puppy. Red Setter, 8 weeks old. Super excited. Joey is his name

He is on his second night away from his mother, and siblings. Already starting to come around and be happy.

I got a new 42" crate and we have trained him to use it as his bed successfully. He goes in and out to sleep . We also have his chew toys in there and he is not allowed to have them out of the crate.

We are sleeping on the sofa in view of him for now. It's like a baby in the house.

I tried to close the gate for the first time this evening. Within a few seconds he panicked and we opened it straight away.

Our goal is get him to sleep with the gate closed and me or my partner in another room.

Can anyone suggest next steps on how to achieve this?

Senature

I'm not an expert, but this is what worked with my puppy who arrived at 12 weeks.

1st night, crate beside my bed, he was in it with door closed. When he woke I'd put my hand in for rubs. If he needed out for a pee, he went back in the crate after.

Next night same set up but crate on the other side of the bed, following night or two crate outside the bedroom door, then downstairs from them on.

Things that helped were having something soft in there for him to lie on, putting a light cover over the crate so he couldn't see out, and only having one comforting toy in with him at night time, nothing that would get him hyped up. During the day the crate was always accessible so he could go in and out as he pleased, which he would regularly.

Consistency is key.

dashcamdanny

Thanks for your reply. Was there much crying when he went downstairs?

fits

It depends on the dog but in our case we left a blanket out with our pup a few days before we collected him so it smelled of him and his siblings.

we left him in crate downstairs and I slept on couch first night. My husband stayed a couple of hours the second night and he’s been fine since. Still sleeps in it happily almost a year later. A comfort blanket can really help.

dashcamdanny

Came home at 6am from work. Wife up and down with him all night. Was going bananas all night.

I pulled the cage over to the sofa and locked him in with me beside him. After about 5 mins of panic. We both fell asleep . 4 hours. No problems. Straight out for a pee after opening.

Getting there I think.

tk123

Feed him his meals in the crate and then let him settle. With mine they’d initially protest for a minute then pass out. I had all of mine upstairs with me at night… in Rory’s case (now almost 10 months) he did NOT take to the crate at night at all and was very unsettled - was summertime and very warm so that didn’t help matters.. I ended up making a little pen attached to the crate out of spare baby gates we had and he settled immediately at night after that

Senature

Hopefully you're nearly there.

I think after the first few nights my fella only cried to get out to the toilet. I was pretty strict about putting him straight back in after. Once they know the score and are safe, warm and comfortable they learn pretty quick. If it helps to stay beside him for the first few minutes, do that, but gradually move further away and decrease the time you are there.

He looks lovely, congratulations I'm sure it'll be sorted soon.

dashcamdanny

Ah thanks. We are really loving having him. He is such an intelligent we pup. Sits and comes on command already. Few things we need to address such as nipping at our feet and jumping up. But all in good time.

Best thing we ever did bringing him home.

hamburgham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058238190/crate-training-advice

I cannot bear to think of a red setter in a cage. Horrific.

hamburgham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058238190/crate-training-advice

This is illegal in some European countries. We are light years behind in terms of animal welfare.

muddypaws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118876595#Comment_118876595

In which European countries are crates illegal?

VonVix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118877483#Comment_118877483

Sweden as well as Finland, I think. It's crate training that's illegal, you can still use crates for transport, dog grooming, and so on. Neutering is illegal in Norway. Some interesting dog laws in that part of the world!

fits

You can’t leave cats go outside in Finland either. I hadn’t heard the crate one though. Interesting!

muddypaws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881545#Comment_118881545

Thanks, I did wonder about transportation because there are actually laws on the continent about what size crates have to be in vehicles and dogs have to be restrained.

I love crates when they're used properly, as a safe place for dogs to go into. My crates in the house are never shut and the dogs choose to go in and out when they want. We're going to France at the end of the month and the two dogs that are coming are more than happy in the crates in the van while we're driving and on the ferry because they're so used to them.

Nody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881545#Comment_118881545

Well that's a truth with a big scope of salt there I'm afraid. The Norweigan law is:

Animal Welfare Law of 2010 §9, 2nd paragraph reads “Det skal ikke gjøres operative inngrep eller fjernes kroppsdeler på dyr uten at det foreligger forsvarlig grunn ut fra hensynet til dyrets helse.” - “No surgery or removal of body parts of animals can be done except when there is a proper reason considering the animal’s health."

However male and female cats (and dogs) can be castrated if this is considered necessary to limit uncontrolled breeding. Such castrations are done because of the animal’s welfare and is common place but you can't do "cosmetic surgery" such as docking tails, removing vocal cords (debarking operation) to stop barking etc. Same applies in Sweden and Finland as well as a side note.

Regarding Finland cats are allowed to be outside; however the law is clear that any animal outside is to be supervised by its owner or it's considered abandoned and may be killed. There are plenty of cats out and about in Finland including feral cats.

Crating is banned (in the sense that you can't have a closed door to the crate) with certain specific exceptions (transport, recovery from operation, shows/competitions etc.); there are requirements as well in how long you're allowed to leave a dog tied up outside, leave them in a dog pen outside (with specific minimum sizes depending on dog size etc.), ban on use of shock collars or fencing etc. However in all the above cases it's a focus on the animal's well being.

hamburgham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883454#Comment_118883454

Thanks for all that very interesting information. How many years will it be, if ever, before we have such good welfare laws.

hamburgham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881545#Comment_118881545

The language tries to dilute the reality of what’s involved. Firstly, why isn’t the word ‘ cage’ used instead of ‘crate’? When and how did it become acceptable to lock a dog into a cage.? I think it coincided with the rise of the puppy farms and designer dogs.

And what is ‘crate training’? Training a dog to get used to get used to being locked in a cage for hours on end, is despicable. And as for using them to toilet train them, it is easy to house train a dog without a cage if you can be bothered. When I was growing up, it was inconceivable that a dog would be kept in a cage. It is so sad that that this has been normalised.

dashcamdanny

dashcamdanny

Dog is very happy now to use the crate. Has his crate in an empty sun room which now seems to be his room. He prefers to stay in it now. Doing great .

As for a setter in a cage. It's for bedtime and highly recommend by many trainers. Which he now wanders into by himself when its time to sleep.

It's not closed at night anymore as we can close the room. But he has no problem if we do shut the cage door.

I have 2 acres closed off for him to gallop around during day.

And has 2 kids to play with in the middle of nowhere now. No tethers or chains Please don't worry. This little lad loves to run. When he is not falling on his arse .. his legs are growing faster than his body and he can't seem to control them at speed 🤣.

Would like some advice on recommend daily food amount. I'm using the guide on the Gain No Cereal puppy food. It's a general guide. He is 6 kg and supposed to get 150g a day . I wet it up with full fat milk.

But he is very bony and skinny. I know setters are a bit like that. But is it ok to up the amount for a puppy. Or add fat like butter?

fits

He’s only a puppy. Just make sure you are feeding recommended amount for his weight. And weigh him regularly. You don’t want much weight on a pup b

tk123

Is this the feeding guide? https://www.glanbiaconnect.com/shop/product/GAIN-Kindness-Lamb-Dog-Food/B9097241

If so your pups mature weight (ie his adult weight) would be 25-35kgs - are you maybe in the wrong column?

From my friend’s setters they are like red skeletons when they’re puppies - I think if you fed him a full bag of food a day he’d stay like that lol 😂 it’s just the way setters are. As he gets older he’ll start to fill out. I wouldn’t be adding fat or butter as you’ll upset his tummy.

muddypaws

Feeding guidelines are just guidelines, you need to watch his condition and feed accordingly. However, pups tend to grow up, then fill out a bit, then up again and then out, so they do go through stages of looking skinny.

As TK says, maybe you're confused by the way it's written on the bag but you feed to the expected adult weight, not the weight that the dog currently is.

The Nal

Give him a treat or something when you close the door. Remember, hes gone from a large family and a mother to your house so being locked away alone could terrify him. Just use the crate until he learns not to wreck everthing in the house, should only take a couple of weeks and then get rid of it.

boardlady

Congratulations - he's a little beauty! Best of luck with him, he sounds like he's landed on his feet with your family. Long may you continue to enjoy him. Our fella is 'the baby' of our house and brings such joy to us.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118887779#Comment_118887779

I wouldn't actually get rid of it just yet, as IME it's very useful for the dog to be used to being in a crate (for a short time) if you need to leave him at the vet's or for transport. I do agree that some of what I've seen on some US sites where they seem to be training to dog to spend hours at a time every day in a crate are cruelty. Clearly that's not what's being discussed here though.

(And he's absolutely gorgeous OP - enjoy him!!)