New CAP for 2023

endainoz

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/76026-common-agricultural-policy-cap-post-2020/?referrer=http://www.gov.ie/cap/#summary-of-irelands-draft-cap-strategic-plan

I hadn't seen any proper posts on the new CAP and what it entails so said I'd start one. There's a very informative pdf if you click on number 3 that give the gist of what is proposed. The main points are that we'll have more convergence particularly for lads on very high BPS rates.

The other main point is that a quarter of all BPS payments will be reduced by 25%, that money will be ring fenced for the new ECO scheme which will be optional but the majority will go for it I think to get that 25% back. The PDF goes into more detail about BISS and CRISS/Front loading payments.

The AECM will be replacing GLAS, this is a separate environmental scheme that we don't have a lot on info regarding actions just yet but more info is due out soon.

The biggest point I found was from the "suckler carbon efficiency program" which is the replacement for the genomics scheme. It will now require bord bia SBLAS membership but it's being paid on the number of hectares rather than the amount of reference animals born.

Everyone should take a look at the PDF, it definitely has potential for a lot of farmers to make some decent money. The ones that will suffer will be the high payments and highly stocked farmers.

JohnChadwick

Cheers for posting, don't see anything about a per hectare payment for the suckler carbon efficiency program.

Proposed Support rates/financial allocation

The number of Suckler Cows eligible per herd will be based on a specified historical reference period which will

provide a ceiling for payment, but there will be scope to reduce numbers without penalty. It is proposed that a

higher rate of payment of €150 per cow will issue for the first 10 suckler cows in a herd with a payment of €120/cow

applying thereafter up to the budget limit.

893bet

That sucker program looks like a mix of beep and beef data?

With a combined payment less than the current two schemes?

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118792579#Comment_118792579

Must be a mistake because this is what was said in the webinar last night:

They also made a point of saying it was a per hectare payment rather than animal. This full presentation is also available to view online.

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118792601#Comment_118792601

Definitely would work out more if payment is per hectare. I got a text about beep s there today actually. When asked about it at the webinar last night, they replied they didn't have confirmation whether Beep would continue into 2023 or not.

Sugarbowl

Yeah Agriland have article up there now that it’s per hectare basis. What’s this about so the 150 euro for your first 10 cows and 120 thereafter?

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118794451#Comment_118794451

Might have been an earlier draft of the plan I suppose. The new version is a lot more enticing anyway.

JohnChadwick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118794340#Comment_118794340

Ah indeed it was a draft I got the thing about reference years from and that rubbish about a 150 per cow payment for first 10 suckler cows etc..

What does the €180 per eligible hectare mean though, and the bit in brackets...? Ref animals divided by 1.5Lu/ha...?

Should have attended webinar myself really.

endainoz

They didn't go into that part too much but I think it's literally that to work out how many of your remaining hectares get paid for. Its to put a ceiling on payments per hectare as far as I understand. So say a farm has a reference number of 25, it would be 25 dividend by 1.5 which would come to 16.66.

So the first 15 hectares x 225= 3600

+16.66 hectares x 180=2998

Works out at over 6.5k, not a bad return at all. It seems like a no brainer to me anyway.

JohnChadwick

OK so is the 25 figure you're using in that calc got by saying you had 25 suckler cows in the ref year?

lalababa

Is it not the reference number ie your best 3 years averaged...let's say 25 cows...divided by 1.5...16.66 so you can only be paid on 16.66 hectares?...15×225 + 1.66x180 =3900?

And is this replacing the bps or in addition?

patrickn

This reference to a per HA payment was involved in the last round of BDGP also. The Dept have to refer to it as an area based payment by using a formula to convert the number of cows you have to a per HA figure so that it is not looked upon as coupled payment.

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118794655#Comment_118794655

The 15 x 225 is for the first 15 hectares, (see above post with the picture in it) this is nothing to do with the BPS, it's a separate scheme which will replace the BDGP.

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118794648#Comment_118794648

Yeah just picked it as a random reference number.

Easten

It's an area payment based on your historic stock levels. The Maximum payment rate is at 1.5 LU / hectare. So a suckler cow is 1 LU. For the 1st 15 hectares the max is 15 X 1.5 LU = 22.5 Cows.

22.5 cows X €150 = €3375 ==> dividing this by 15 gives an area payment of €225/hectare

Every hectare after the 1st 15 is paid at a rate of €120 / cow at the maximum stocking rate of 1.5 Suckler cows per hectare.

Easten

A point to add is if you are going to be keeping above 1 LU / hectare then you must use LESS slurry spreading.

So for a lot of lads this scheme might not be as lucrative as first indicated

893bet

Stupid question but Do just cows count towards live units for this scheme?

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118795275#Comment_118795275

It seems to be a flat rate of 225 a hectare for the first 15, if it wasn't I think it would specify "up to 225". I don't think they'll be doing a scheme rewarding a higher stocking rate.

Bit of clarification needed.

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118795361#Comment_118795361

Depends on the scheme, minimum stocking rates are going down for certain schemes to match the old greening rate to 0.1. But reference number is to do with the average amount of cows calved on farms over a 3 year period.

Check out the PowerPoint presentation on the gov.ie/cap page, it explains things a lot better than I can.

endainoz

Agriland seem to think it's a flat rate anyway.

Easten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118795389#Comment_118795389

Proposed Support rates/financial allocation

The number of Suckler Cows eligible per herd will be based on a specified historical reference period which will provide a ceiling for payment, but there will be scope to reduce numbers without penalty. It is proposed that a higher rate of payment of €150 per cow will issue for the first 10 suckler cows in a herd with a payment of €120/cow applying thereafter up to the budget limit.

page 29

https://assets.gov.ie/217484/27d66857-a364-4ee4-97cf-771fe32af86f.pdf

This also seems to contradict the €225/hectare as it says only the 1st 10 cows.

So definitely a bit of clarification needed as the devil is in the details!

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118795463#Comment_118795463

If you read this thread properly youd realize that is an older draft and it's now going to be paid by the hectare. The PowerPoint presentation has the more up to date information.

Easten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118795477#Comment_118795477

ah ok thanks

Sugarbowl

So do they take into account how many hectares you have? If you have a reference number of 20 and have 30 hectares what would you get? Sorry I’m getting confused by it all…

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118795710#Comment_118795710

You'd get paid 225 for the 15 and then 20 divided by 1.5 is 13.3 so you also get paid for that at the lower rate, That's my understanding of it anyway. I could be completely wrong of course.

Micey.ie

Endainoz I think that would be to good to be true,my understanding of it based on the same principle as BDGP is paid..

say your 3 reference years had

year 1-20 cows calved

year 2-18 cows calved

year 3-17 cows calved

55/3=18.33-your reference number

so you’ll get paid………………

235*15=3525(first 15 cows/eligible ha)

180*3.33=599(remaining cows)

Total=4124

I stand to be corrected also

893bet

The 18 above needs to be divided by 1.5 I think to give you 12 as your reference number.

235*12 is what you get (as long as you are farming at least 12 ha).

Micey.ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118800668#Comment_118800668

Yeah sorry your right

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118800732#Comment_118800732

Sadly. I preferred both of yer methods 😅

ABitofsense

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118800668#Comment_118800668

So does that mean only 12 out of your 18 are part of the scheme & need to 4/5 star, weighed etc etc.

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118800754#Comment_118800754

For the 4/5 star is it just calved cows or can heifers count. Lots of farms had cows drop from 4 to 3 stars in reference years

endainoz

The above link is to download the information given at the meetings and the webinar, most of the information needed is in here:

https://assets.gov.ie/219165/028dcdd2-fba0-4d0d-a1fe-4a307cf0ae55.pptx

Donald Trump

Were there any moves on overall scheme to do something with reference to production?

To try to solve the issue of armchair farmers who just happened to have things built up at the right time but no longer actively produce anything?

I wouldn't suggest to go back to being fully linked to production, but at least to have some link to a minimum level of it. If your BPS was built up on the back of having 60 sucklers back in the day and you've sold no cattle for the past 10 years then maybe it's time that that money is made available to those actually producing ...........

Mach Two

Tree planting. Anyone got any information on how many trees we are going to have to plant.