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What if my license is refused

  • 15-03-2022 6:33pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 13


    Well the ball is rolling now, i have a deposit down also a firearms competency course booked, a venue that hopefully will be my go to place and i have arranged to meet the super to get a few questions answered.

    i have doubts certainly because of my driving without displayed insurance details (although i was insured and it was cleared up later) and another time an out of date tax disc. also my medical file will say i took medication for anxiety some time back and another medication for adhd, although not a mental illness i imagine there might be a stigma associated with someone in my situation owning a shotgun depending on how knowledgeable the super is on adhd. im about 50/50 on weather ill be refused or not but i feel i have to try as its a fricking awesome hobby.

    just curious what the community thinks my chances are.


    also if i appealed through the district court and am refused again is my situation essentially hopeless forever?

    Post edited by Cass on


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    i have doubts certainly because of my driving without displayed insurance details (although i was insured and it was cleared up later) and another time an out of date tax disc.

    The country would be denuded of firearm ownership was this a considering factor.😃 It's a civil tort,[ie offence against civil law]not a criminal offence. If say, however, you were doing it consistently and were caught with a DUI or multiples thereof as well then it might give pause of concern.As you said it was cleared up and you were insured at the time, these aren't biggies.

    lso my medical file will say i took medication for anxiety some time back and another medication for adhd, although not a mental illness i imagine there might be a stigma associated with someone in my situation owning a shotgun depending on how knowledgeable the super is on adhd. im about 50/50 on weather ill be refused or not but i feel i have to try as its a fricking awesome hobby.

    That would be depending on what your doc says.


    also if i appealed through the district court and am refused again is my situation essentially hopeless forever?

    No,you can reapply again,if you can address the concerns that would cause the Judge to refuse the license. Provided it isn't a criminal offence and even that. We've seen deer poachers being banned from owning firearms for 5 years, reapplying for their license .If it ends up in court the Super will have to argue his case as to why he refused you, which BTW you are entitled to in writing first off, so your legal counsel has something to work on.If he has worries about your mental condition, then you are entitled to address those points with a medical expert as a witness.

    Or,if you have the cash you can always take it to the high court for a judicial review too. But that's a nuke option.

    See how it goes first with the application, and then worry about it.👍️

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 13 5greytiles



    thanks for the response and for giving a fella hope. im considering having something drawn up preemptively just to show that my doctor considers me of sound mind. have to say the part of the application related to gp and any underlining conditions on the FCA1 has this lovely line, quote "Do you suffer from, or have you been diagnosed or treated for any medical condition (physical / mental) that may affect your ability to possess, carry or use firearms, safely? Yes No"

    that is one sneaky trick question because neither yes or no is correct. yes i am diagnosed and treated for a condition but no it doesn't effect my ability to safely own,store and use a basic shotgun safely. but if i put no and the super finds out i have something then i come across as dishonest and if i say yes then the wording of that question makes it sound like i have doubts about myself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Feisar


    I reckon as long as it doesn't affect your ability to possess, carry or use a firearm then the legit answer is no. You are reading it as two separate questions, IMHO they are the one. But then a solicitor may look at the positioning of some of those commas and say I'm wrong in my assumption. Also it's so open ended, "any medical condition" and "may affect". Anyone who ever had a bad day at all needs to tick the yes box.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,002 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    I agree the insurance and tax issues are not factors. But for the sake of clarity. Road traffic offences are criminal offences, not civil ones.

    It’s a single sentence, without a comma before or, so it’s asking entirely about your ability to safely possess a firearm. No is the correct answer.

    Otherwise every irrelevant physical condition wouldn’t need to be mentioned. “Well, guard, eh, I have a hairy arse medical condition”



  • Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭BSA International


    IMVHO, you'd have to declare any previous health conditions that may be relevant to an application which will probably trigger checks with relevant health care professionals on current situation regarding same.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As others have said, I wouldn't worry about the tax/insurance thing.

    I would also tick no on the medical question as what you describe wouldn't impact your ability to possess/use firearms. Unless there is something more serious, then you shouldn't worry about this either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    I agree the insurance and tax issues are not factors. But for the sake of clarity. Road traffic offences are criminal offences, not civil ones.

    FIK it can be both civil and criminal. DUI,hit&run, reckless driving certainly are. Is it a jailable offence [in extremis] over 30 days to not have a taxc and insurance disc not displayed?

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 13 5greytiles


    no theres nothing more serious. i have adhd and i am medicated for it, its a stimulant i take and is a controlled substance. the problem with ticking no is that theres also a box for gp and a box next to it for other doctor. well the fact is that i do have an private adhd specialist that i go to (in truth i dont go to her she just signs off on the medication once per month) so i wonder if to not putting her in the other doctor section starts to seem dishonest.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,422 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    Realistically, IMO, no.

    I go to a podiatrist about my foot being sore, no reason to stick that into the other medical professional box, simply because it isn't relevant.

    Only you can make the final call but, again IMO, what you have described would not effect your shooting/owning a firearm safely, hence it is not relevant to the form as it states "that may affect".

    If you don't think your medical condition/history would affect your safe handling of a firearm, then that's your answer.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Registered Users Posts: 551 ✭✭✭JP22


    Just my tuppence worth.

    Go to both GP’s, take along the FCA1 application and show them the relevant section and the relevant question/s asked.

    Explain your situation, state that you are going to apply and you believe you should answer NO to the said question and give them your reasons why.

    Ask both GP’s what would their answer be in relation to your application should they be contacted by the AGS on this.

    If both GP’s are honest and truthful they will inform you whether they approve or not, end of day their answers will determine whether you should proceed or not with your application.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭bmmb88


    No is the correct answer. Does your condition affect your ability to have and use firearms safely ? ( only you know the honest answer to this ). If you say yes you will need to get a letter from your GP. I have seen one such letter. It gave a brief medical history of the applicant and a glowing reference. Then the killer punch - " however I would recommend that you get an independent phychiatric assessment". Doctor has to cover his ass. CS has to cover his and you are now seeing a phychiarist and a big can of worms has been opened. Thats just my opinion, good luck hope you are successful.



  • Registered Users Posts: 551 ✭✭✭JP22



    I agree, in an ideal world NO is the correct answer BUT unfortunately we are dealing with FUBAR Irish Legislation plus issuing Supers have wide latitude in how they interpret current legislation.

    Save all the hassle and time, go to your GP'(s) as I indicated previously and ask for an honest straight up answer, IMO there are only three - Yes/No or I’ll have to refer you to some other medical professional.

    By going to your GP’(s) and getting their views first, you should know if your proposed application is a runner or not. Its pointless wasting time if your application is not viable in the first place.

    End of day, you can always appeal the decision, many have successfully appealed, just be warned, you will need super deep pockets……………..

    Best of luck.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13 5greytiles


    regarding the anxiety i was treated for, that was up until fairly recently but i have ceased the medication now and have found an alternative, exercise and a change in diet. i wonder if i just wait a year or so will it be enough to prove i am not requiring medication and am still of sound mind, i wonder what the cooling off period is, i imagine it depends on the gard and what mood he is in.

    as for adhd, the trainer at the firearms centre went through the fca1 form with me basically said if its not a mental illness which it isn't then it's not relevant to the application so you don't need to declare it. the place i go to for adhd treatment is private and i'm not sure what it shares with the main database that my gp would have access to. i imagine its all in one including all hospital visits whether private or public but one medical article i was reading about freedom of information said differently.

    the trainer also said with garda to be on the defensive with them and only divulge as bare minimum mount of info as possible. he said it very convincingly and he's clearly had lots of experience with this but to me it sounds like a losing tactic.

    Post edited by 5greytiles on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    You should go to your GP to get advice into your suitability to hold a firearms license.



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