Civil Service Mileage Rate

snor

With the recent increased cost of fuel, is there any plan to alter the civil service mileage rates. Current rates are in place since April 2017. https://www.revenue.ie/en/employing-people/employee-expenses/travel-and-subsistence/civil-service-rates.aspx Thanks.

Dempo1

Probably not a question for the state Ben forum, I'd try the Taxation forum.

Yorky

Hopefully abolish them completely and let the already well-paid public servants pay for their own mileage out of their salary

BingCrosbee

Hopefully they’ll be increased as any tax free income is very welcome

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715529#Comment_118715529

Same for all the well paid service engineers, well paid salespeople, well paid IT consultants presumably?

snor

I don’t fall into any of those categories unfortunately. But thanks 👍

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715529#Comment_118715529

Such a nonsense post. Why would any worker have to pay out of their own pocket to do their job?

Yorky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715785#Comment_118715785

Because the mileage is in the course of their duties- this is what their salary is to cover.

They're already well paid, often overpaid, and the taxpayer is already overburdened so the least they could is cover this expense

Yorky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715658#Comment_118715658

No-those are private sector jobs and paid for by private sector companies and not funded by the taxpayer.

This post is about someone already generously paid out of the public purse back looking for even more.

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118719770#Comment_118719770

incorrect.

Mileage is for when you have to use your own car and fuel to travel somewhere for work purposes .. not your commute.

So why should anyone be expected to pay for that themselves.

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118719770#Comment_118719770

if you don't want someone to get milage - are you suggesting then that anyone in the civil service who needs to travel for work (outside of the commute) is given a company car and fuel card instead?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118719770#Comment_118719770

I don't think you understand what mileage is paid for.

Also, if you think that lower grade civil servants are "overpaid", how much less are you personally willing to work for? 25,339 entry for a CO.

ari101

Civil service mileage rates are used by the private sector too. (The rates set the maximum amount that can be paid before the payment becomes taxable.)

Lots of lower-middle income workers are required to travel away from their normal location for work (no payment applies for regular commute) and the need to drive is not factored into pay.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118719770#Comment_118719770

Their salary is to cover them attending their workplace.

Not travelling to another location for a meeting

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118719825#Comment_118719825

Those private sector jobs are ultimately funded by consumers though, one way or other. Consumers are paying for those services, directly or indirectly.

So what's good for the goose is good for the gander, let's wipe out all mileage rates for people on decent salaries, say €40k and above, and direct the savings into the price charged to consumers at the end of the day.

It is probably a drop in the ocean of the overall costs of any company or any Government, so the impact on overall costs will be negligible - a 1c saving on product cost or 1c reduction in tax paid. It will also make it impossible for businesses and government to do their basic business, but hey, once it makes you feel better about your lot, that's the important thing, right?

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118720473#Comment_118720473

nonsense.

Private companies pay this rate - it is a cost of doing business so what you are saying is just rubbish.

So a homeware assistant on a salary of €40k per annum would have to pay to fuel and maintain their own car to visit patients all day long.

If you need to use your private car to travel for the purposes of work you are entitled to be compensated for the wear, tear and fuel at the nominal rate.

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118719770#Comment_118719770

This is a joke, right?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118720488#Comment_118720488

Maybe I should have used sarcasm tags?

Yorky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118720473#Comment_118720473

I've no problem covering the costs of doing business in the private sector as a consumer where there is accountability, workforce flexibility, potential for dismissal and redundancy et al.

Unlike the public sector where none of the above apply and these costs have to be met out of taxation whether the service is delivered or not

Yorky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118721583#Comment_118721583

To those benefitting from the PS gravy train, yes.

snor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058235251/civil-service-mileage-rate

I am in the private sector. I Travel as part of my work (not a commute) and am paid mileage but the standard rate is the civil service rate - hence my question .

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118722964#Comment_118722964

No flexibility? This is the organisation that turned on a sixpence two years ago to shift tens of thousands of staff to WFH, reassigned thousands to contact tracing roles in weeks, put on onee of the most effective vaccination campaigns in Europe? And you want more flexibility?

Where's the accountability for the dreadful customer service we all experience from Eir and Virgin and PTSB and more? And we pay their wages every day! Public servants are dismissed all the time btw,though good recruitment and management keeps this at a a fairly minimum level.

It's an utterly ridiculous idea, expecting engineers and architects to fund their own travel from one side of Kerry to the other, and Revenue and HSA and HIQA auditors to fund their own travel from one side of the country to another.

Have you really thought this through?

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118722967#Comment_118722967

Are you in paid employment yourself? Am struggling to understand your logic here.

Yorky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118723431#Comment_118723431

"Turned on a sixpence" to being at home on full pay whether doing all, some or no work.

"Contract Tracing" was a euphemism for being at home with a job that cannot be done from home doing no work but on full pay. The numbers in this situation were legion. The passport office, museum, library staff to name but a few.

Nobody in the public sector was made redundant or put on the PUP despite swathes of them being effectively unemployed.

Then there were those in the health service who refused to go to work and "expose" themselves to infection and were at home on full pay for over 18 months.

The good thing about poor customer service in the private sector is that the consumer can go elsewhere and eventually they have to improve their customer service or go bust. In the public sector there's no accountability and the staff are unsackable so if a complaint is made either nothing is done or the public servant gets promotion.

"Public Servants dismissed all the time"..Haha you should be in the propaganda industry.

"Good recruitment and management" ..union stranglehold you mean.

If the public sector was a business it would have gone bust decades ago due to its inefficiency alone.

And yes, I have thought this through but I'd prefer to be ignorant of how the public service works.

Yorky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118724614#Comment_118724614

Yes, unfortunately seeing my taxes paying for a grossly inefficient and over bloated public service who are always looking for more

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118726207#Comment_118726207

In your employment do you have to supply the desk & chair? Do you have to pay for your own hotel if you are working on a site far away from your home?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118726176#Comment_118726176

You're doing a great job at maintaining ignorance of how the public sector works for sure. You're also doing a great job making up vague allegations, with absolutely no backup detail.

The irony is that the PUP payment you mention wouldn't have existed if public sector staff hadn't created a new benefit, with new forms, new rules, new legislation, new systems and processed tens of thousands of applications within weeks of Covid landing.

And there's also the little matter of the health services that kept people alive and kept Covid at bay with one of the fastest vaccination roll outs in Europe. You're welcome.

xeresod

Sounds like the OP has had a visit from a DSP inspector and got caught out and now they reckon if there's no more T&S expenses there'll be no one to come and catch them defrauding the social welfare system!

Yorky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118728326#Comment_118728326

No idea what what any of that means or what "T&S expenses" are but sounds like someone does and is claiming every last cent they're "entitled" to

Yorky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118728302#Comment_118728302

I'd prefer not to know how the PS works but know all too well unfortunately.

Ah that old chestnut of "making up vague allegations, with absolutely no backup detail". The standard riposte from every defensive public servant while they know than anyone not employed in the public sector could not possibly be expected to produce documentary evidence". Is that line of defence in the union manual?

Re social protection payments admin, they were just doing their job unlike many others who effectively had over a year off on full pay.

Same goes health service employees-just doing the job they're paid to do, at best, and many were at a loose end making tiktok videos due to the pandemic that never happened and all elective surgery being cancelled. I had personal experience of people who were admitted to various hospitals for non-elective reasons and they or I had never seen any hospital as quiet with so many staff with little to do.

None of this suits the public "servant" narrative so is met with perpetual denial and defensiveness but don't worry, whether you're busy or not, competent or not, your job is safe.

Yorky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118728229#Comment_118728229

Rhetorical question but anyway-that's paid for by a private sector employer not the beleaguered taxpayer and depriving much-needed funds from actual service delivery instead of giving public servants money they don't need

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118728678#Comment_118728678

You know those private sector businesses cover their costs by selling products to consumers, right?

AJR, Kane Tone - don't waste your time or energy trying to reason with this kind of attitude.

It's a wasted effort, and will just fall on deaf ears.

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience"

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118728630#Comment_118728630

Ah,the tired old TikTok videos argument. I thought maybe we might have left that behind with Covid. But apparently not- some people seem to think that medical staff should never get a coffee break or a lunch break.

I have personal experience of medical staff pulling double shifts to cover for ill colleagues (the ones who put their lives on the line to keep you safe, literally in some cases) in double PPE, for zero payment, just to keep patients alive. You’re welcome btw.

Social Protection did a lot more than‘just doing their job’ in putting together a new scheme to keep people off the breadline in days, and enrolling tens of thousands of people in weeks.

As did the HSE, building an entire vaccination infrastructure structure in every county in a few weeks, and rolling out one of the fastest vaccination campaigns in Europe. You’re welcome, btw.

And who exactly were these staff that got a year off on full pay doing nothing?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118729004#Comment_118729004

this

report for off topic shitposting and move on is my approach these days

sher on my fat salary my time is worth more than engaging the likes

Yorky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118729004#Comment_118729004

Never argue with public servants you mean. They will defend the indefensible to the enth degree

Yorky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118729103#Comment_118729103

Aka just doing their job, if they were working that is, and a slack time for the majority due to cancellation of elective surgeries et al. Then having the absolute gall to request -and even accept - a €1000 tax free payment. It's just unbelievable.

If you read my posts rather than cherry-picking points you'd see I've already given examples of public servants who were unemployed on full pay. Teachers also, and no a cobbled together worksheet mass emailed does not consistute "working".

Using evocative terms to describe people simply doing their jobs is trite. Some worked diligently but that's what they're paid to do. If they happened to be a bit busier for a couple of years out of the 40 year scheme, then the public got a bit of extra value, that is all.

Lots had a cushy time over the last two years and many did no work at all.

I don't recall any public servants offering to surrender their unearned wages and claim the PUP like those in the private sector raising the taxes to pay for these people.

Yorky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118729121#Comment_118729121

Feel free to ignore and focus on doing the job you're publicly paid to do then.

If there's nothing wrong, there's nothing to defend

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118737465#Comment_118737465

“just doing their job”?

So pulling double shifts to cover for sick colleagues wearing double PPE the whole time is “just doing their job”?

Staying away from their families for months on end to avoid bringing the deadly virus home to their parents, their children, their partners is “just doing their job”?

Literally dying or ending up with Long COVID for just doing their jobs is “just doing their job”?

So I’m not sure if you managed to work out why those elective surgeries were cancelled? It wasn’t because the team spent five minutes on a TikTok video. It was because the staff and beds were reassigned to deal with very sick people, so that we never had to turn anyone away from Intensive Care for lack of resources, as happened in many other countries.

You’re welcome, btw.

You have literally no idea what work those teachers, museum staff and others were doing over that period. It is pure idle speculation on your part, spreading BS rumours to suit some idealogical agenda.

Yorky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118740782#Comment_118740782

You can use as much absurd hyperbole to describe the pandemic that never was but it won't change anything.

The only people spouting such nonsense as you are those with a vested interest in propping up the not-fit-for-purpose public sector. It's no wonder the government are increasingly privatising formerly public services when intransigent attitudes such as yours typify everything that's wrong with the public service.

I have every idea what those "employed" in the sectors listed were doing-they had a great time off work on full pay for 18 months but kept a low profile to prevent public opinion turning against them.

The public are generally ignorant of the enormity of the cost of public sector pay-circa €25Bn, more than the welfare budget, and a superannuation bill which is mainly funded by the taxpayer with the recipient paying a small contribution towards it and now an 18 month covid holiday on full pay..It's absolutely disgraceful when that revenue could be put to good use rather than making those in the protected sector wealthy and those in the private sector are paying for it and had to get by on the PUP.

One day the public will wake up and see the public service for what it is and then there might be a chance of serious reform

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118746802#Comment_118746802

The pandemic that never was! Would be hilarious if it wasn't so insulting to the families of those that died and those that continue to struggle with the effects of long Covid and to the 800-odd people still in hospital today. But meybe they're all just a figment of my imagination.

I've been hearing guff like this for 20 years on various bulletin boards from a small core of bitter and twisted moaners. Maybe it's just one bitter and twisted moaner, who knows. It seems that the public haven't 'woken up' in those 20 years, including the sharpest recession and the deepest cuts to public expenditure in living memory, but sure I guess that's the public fault, right? They're not all as clever as you.

I don't know if you get your ideas from watching 1970s British movies or what, but the CS you describe bears no relationship to the reality that many of us have been living for years. It is just a figment of your twisted imagination.

My current management challenge is the bunch of staff I’ve inherited that have carried over leave entitlements of between 20 and 70 days, because they’ve been too busy to take leave. Just one of the bunch had leave requests declined. The others didn’t look for leave to ensure that their jobs got done. I’m working to make sure they take their entitled leave and start working down the backlog. That’s the reality of public service today.

Give us a laugh and tell us where you got your 'every idea' of those who did nothing for 18 months from?

You can be sure of one thing - no-one in the civil service would have come up with such a dumb idea as expecting staff to pay for their own work travel expenses, punishing those staff who happen to travel on safety inspections or quality audits or revenue audits or building control inspections or whatever. Silly, bitter, and twisted nonsense.

Rket4000

I'm always bemused by the argument that PS employees' salaries are funded by the taxpayer...... Given that PS employees are very definitely taxpayers too...... and those on the higher salaries are paying huge amounts of tax!

Yorky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118753006#Comment_118753006

I'm always bemused by this lack of "understanding" that public servants paying tax is just giving the taxpayer a small rebate from their publicly funded salary. And the taxpayer is still on the hook for paying the majority of the cost of the gold standard superannuation schemes the public servants get

Yorky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118748244#Comment_118748244

I didn't know the PS had a propaganda department until this thread.

The public sector is so grossly overstaffed that almost everyone is either directly or indirectly benefitting from the overpaid and underworked public service so there obviously hasn't been any public opprobrium.

But with a cyclical economic bust looming, hopefully this time the media will bring in to sharp focus the cost and gross inefficiency of the public sector and when everyone in the real economy starts losing their livelihoods again, the protected sector will be the subject of their backlash. It just might precipitate the systemic reform chronically required by getting rid of the malignant unions and making the purpose of the public sector about service delivery again rather than for the benefit of its so-called servants.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118760108#Comment_118760108

Ireland comes out around the middle of the EU tables for public service staffing, so your ‘grossly over staffed’ claim is just another figment of your bitter and twisted imagination. Did a civil servant run off with your missus or what?

Degag

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715529#Comment_118715529

This is a ridiculous assertion. One could not seriously suggest that anyone should travel on their own dime, outside of their regular commute for work purposes.

I'm in the private sector and would regularly enough have to travel half way up the country to Dublin and back for work purposes. €50+ per journey and considerably more in current times. I don't pay for this nor should i have to. Neither should anyone in the Public sector.

I guess there could be caveats to this in both sectors - i.e Exec level who are hired on large salaries (6 figures +) where the salary is reflective of their role and need to travel.

AyeGer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118719770#Comment_118719770

Yorky i have an example for you of a family member who works for the Public Service, due to her particular specialty she was sent to the other end of the country to sit on an interview panel. These interviews lasted 2 weeks. She had to travel about 400 KM round trip and stay in hotel 8 nights over the 2 weeks. Under your harsh plan she would have been working for nearly nothing by the time these costs were paid for out of her wages for those 2 weeks.

Yorky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118760500#Comment_118760500

In that extreme example, travelling expenses would be justified.

It would be reasonable for public servants to meet their own travelling expenses up to a certain threshold based upon their pay scale and then they could get reimbursed for their out of pocket expenses above that.

But not the current system where travel and subsistence payments are treated as a highly profitable and tax-free second income funded by the public purse.

Gusser09

Public Servant here. I do a lot of KM's per year as part of my role. Probably 10-12,000. I was on a site yesterday 400km's or so round trip.

I've told my boss I won't be doing it again until either rates go up or diesel goes down.

If public servants start doing this then a lot of critical tasks and projects will be delayed resulting in bigger losses and costs for the tax payer. I'm not throwing the toys out of the pram or anything and understand that the money has to come from somewhere but it's just mad at the moment trying to keep diesel in the car.

Yorky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118760361#Comment_118760361

EU tables are irrelevant. The EU will eventually disband then Ireland will be back to its 1950s state. This is a small agrarian country currently paying the bills out of being a corporate tax-haven and compounding the national debt. It has no natural resources or intrinsic wealth so having a burgeoning public sector with obscene pay rates is pitifully stupid. But don't you be worrying about such trivia and just keep pushing for your mileage increase.

Missus? Bit of an assumption there. You're in the PS where gender doesn't exist so you'd be better be careful your boss isn't reading this. Oh wait, there's no accountability in the PS so you're grand.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118763338#Comment_118763338

Jaysus. You're going to be rightly pissed off when the new pay agreement is published in a few months. Couldn't come at a better time for public servants with inflation through the roof. I'd have thought a few months ago we'd get another 3-4 percent over 3 years. I think it'll be a bit higher now and we will get a decent bump straight away too.