Generator

Amprodude · 20-02-2022 9:49pm #1

Hi there I am looking to buy a generator for my house that is already wired for a generator. I won't be running a2W or HRV off the generator but would run ovens kettle tv and lights of possible.

I am looking at a 9.5kva petrol generator with avr function. Would that be fine for the above functions. I want it strong enough not to struggle under load.

I also have a switch near the fusebox 1 for ESB 2 for generator. I take it all I have to do is switch off the a2w and HRV and switch the board to generator, hook up generator to external input and start generator?

Ubbquittious · 20-02-2022 11:19pm

The hurve probably doesn't use a lot of power

9.5kva is a lot for petrol, will be costly to run. If u plan to use it for any significant amount of time daysul will be chayper

Gant21 · 20-02-2022 11:21pm

Install a 10kva auto start genset. You’re only tickling it with a petrol generator.

jmreire · 20-02-2022 11:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058233997/generator

I'd say that this will be connected so that its completely automatic. ESB supply fails, system starts the Generator , and the supply is restored. If you select a diesel gennie, make sure that you service it regularly, and keep the fuel tank full.

Amprodude · 21-02-2022 12:14am

It's a manual switch I think i have. When power goes, I think I switch my switch to generator and connect to generator. I would switch off the a2w as it would damage it. If I want an oven running kettle and lights to go off the generator what size should I be looking at? I don't mind getting an overkill one so that I won't have to worry about power and the generator struggling.

Amprodude · 21-02-2022 12:15am

I would also buy diesel one if purchasing but knowing which one to get is the problem. My electrician said to me before about making sure it AVR compatible .

jmreire · 21-02-2022 12:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118665978#Comment_118665978

Well, normally with a manual change over, you have 2 supply's entering the change over box. Then you have 3 positions on the switch box. Lever pointed straight up, neutral, no electricity entering the house. Lever switched to the Left, power from the ESB feeding the house, Lever switched to the right, power from the generator feeding the house.

Procedure as follows for manual change over:

ESB supply fail's. Go to changeover box, and switch lever to vertical position ( neutral or dead ) Start generator, and allow the engine to run for minimum 30 or 60 secs. Switch on generator, allow to run fir a few secs, then go to change over box and switch lever from vertical to Right. Power is now flowing to the house. When ESB power returns, go to changeover switch, move lever to neutral position, allow a few seconds before switching to ESB. Go to generator and switch off generator, but allow engine to run for a few minutes without load to cool down.

For gen size needed, you have to make a list of everything that you will need power for, see what Watts it needs, then add up the total wattage required. This figure can be converted to kVa ( Google conversion rate, watts to Kva ) So you can then see what Kva generator you need. Bear in mind, that when doing the watt assessment, you will need to figure out what percentages of time the appliance will be used for each day...... very few items run 24 / 7.

Gant21 · 21-02-2022 12:48am

Manual change over is dinosaur

jmreire · 21-02-2022 1:02am

Yes, I know, but that's what he asked about. Chances are though when he gets to buying and installing the Gen, it will be 100% automatic. Personally, its what I would do too. Anyway, Best of Luck to him with it. By the looks of things, he will not be the only one... I have a 6.5 kVa honda myself, and I've had to use it in the past.

Amprodude · 21-02-2022 1:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118666057#Comment_118666057

Thanks for the description. My switch over box is labeled "I" for esb and "II" for generator.

21-02-2022 8:33am

Electricity doesn't go that often ..I have a manual generator and it takes two seconds to turn on ..

I don't don't know if it's more expensive to have it automatic but I certainly don't have any problems

jmreire · 21-02-2022 11:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118666398#Comment_118666398

What make and kVa is it, if you don't mind my asking?

21-02-2022 1:08pm

Blue plug into blue socket and three pin into any socket.turn off switch at main fuse board .generator is electric key start .start up and that's it.i cannot run a shower and cooker as it would draw too much power but all my lights, kettle,microwave and two tvs and all sockets run at the same time. I think it's a 6kva generator but it's about 5 years old.came in handy yesterday as electricity went for about three hours

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Neilsen-Bde6700t-Diesel-Generator-CT0405/dp/B073DMKD1L

think its out of stock but it's a better picture maby

21-02-2022 3:36pm

This fellow on adverts .ie might have one

https://www.adverts.ie/tool-parts-accessories/neilsen-bde6700t3-generator/18902474

jmreire · 21-02-2022 11:56pm

If I understand you correctly...you start the Gen, plug the 3 pin into any 3pin socket in the house, and the other ( blue 3 round pin) into the generator, and that's it???

Widdensushi · 22-02-2022 1:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118670727#Comment_118670727

Not at all, you will need a change over switch and either hardwired or plug in option from the generator where the power goes in to the house.

22-02-2022 7:35am

Yes that's it ...I have a double socket next to the generator in the shed where I plug into and the other blue plug goes into generator .I do not start generator first ...for safety I plug my leads in first..then start the generator..when I know the power has come back on I turn off generator first before plugging out cable.i always lock the shed when generator is running .it's simple when you follow afew small rules for safety.

mickdw · 22-02-2022 10:13am

That's shocking bad practice if you are not wired with a changeover switch.

If I understand you, you simply knock off the main switch and plug the generator into a socket.

There is an awful lot wrong with that.

You are drawing the entire power through that socket circuit which is probably not up to it and also you could accidently feed power out to esb network if you made a mistake.

listermint · 22-02-2022 10:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118671190#Comment_118671190

First of all OP. Don't do this ever. Madness!

Secondly check Irish Garage Supplies for genies. They have a lot of different types

jmreire · 22-02-2022 10:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118670962#Comment_118670962

Yes, thats how I would ( and have done) in the past, and thats why I asked Glenbeigh to make sure did I understand him right... Glengeigh, you have to change the way you use the generator... get a competent electriction to install a change over switch for you, so your Generator supply goes into the same box that the esb supply feeds the house. My advice would be to not use the gen again until this is done. You are basically ( and very basically ) feeding the current the wrong way round. ( not the best way of explaining it, but you get my meaning? )

jamesd · 22-02-2022 11:03am

I have this for my home : https://ige.ie/pacini-7-5kva-silent-diesel-generator-electric-start

When powers goes I go the generator, switch on, leave it running for 5 minutes to warm up, then go to the house fuse board, and flick a switch from ESB over to Generator and that's me done.

Sparks told me not to run the electric oven, electric hob or electric shower but fine for all the house otherwise, had a power failure 2 weeks ago and the generator was only running at less than 1/4 load with all the house on.

Widdensushi · 22-02-2022 11:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672040#Comment_118672040

Absolutely, i just presumed it was misunderstood because it's such bad practice to do it that way.

jmreire · 22-02-2022 11:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672123#Comment_118672123

Thats a good sized generator, 7.5 kVa, Just remember to watch the hours on the clock, and service it on time, and it will last you years and years. When the ESB comes back on, and you switch back to ESB supply, from the Gen. Then switch off the gen, but let the engine run for a few mins without load. This will really extend the engine life.

jamesd · 22-02-2022 12:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672365#Comment_118672365

Thanks - I had not taught of letting it run off load afterwards at all but I will add this to my procedure now.

jmreire · 22-02-2022 12:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672460#Comment_118672460

Its normal practice in a manually operated set-up. And also, where the change over switch has 3 positions, leave it in "0" before switching either way for maybe 10 second's. Normal switch set up is :- 1.....0......2., the one being ESB, the "0" being Zero Supply, and the "2" being Generator. Hope that helps you.

jamesd · 22-02-2022 12:48pm

GeneratorSwitch.JPG

My switch just has the 2 positions - see attached.

My install thread: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058107534/home-generator/p1

Ive used it a few times now - during our last power failure my neighbour was out with his head tourch looking over to see why we all our lights on and his house was down.

CreadanLady · 22-02-2022 4:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118667537#Comment_118667537

Do you have any idea how dangerous that setup is. It is lethal. There is a long list of things wrong with it...

As someone said, all current going through one 13amp plug and circuit. Overheat and fire hazard.

Even with all MCBs off you will still have live plugs on the distribution side. While not an immediate safety risk, it is an extremely bad practice.

You say you have a procedure for connection and disconnection. Fair enough but that depends on the procedure being rigidly followed ever. single. time. Anything can happen. A mistake, a distraction, and you or someone else could be electrocuted. You might even fall ill or take an unrelated injury, and then whoever is around you has to deal with a maverick genny setup that is absolutely deadly without following your procedure.

Should the main switch not be opened due to any mistake or omission, you will feed power out onto the grid. Presumably, most outages will be due to storm damage. So you now will be unknowingly feeding power out onto lines that could well have ESB staff working on them. They kill the lines at whatever usual switches but unknowingly they will now be going handling live lines thanks to your crazy setup down the road.

And probably THE most dangerous aspect of your science experiment is the two plugged flex. That, my friend, is what is known in the industry as a widow-maker lead. You may think that you know how to use it safely, and maybe it is, but only under the very controlled procedure that is entirely in your own head.

Aside from What happens if you mistakenly handle the live end of the lead due to tiredness, distraction etc, say you become incapacitated for whatever reason and another person unfamiliar with the setup has to switch off the genny. How is a normal joe soap supposed to know the procedure and realise that if any step is missed they will be in a situation with a high chance of lethality.

The whole thing is a massive abuse of electricity, and selfish beyond belief because you are too tight to pay for a proper switchover box, to the point where someone else might have to deal with it if you couldn't and get killed. How would you feel then?

The whole thing is an extremely dangerous setup, and the whole supposedly safe procedure is fatally flawed because any single missed step or mistake in it creates a potentially lethal situation.

You need to stop this, and you need to destroy that double plugged widowmaker lead. These are highly dangerous devices and they should not exist. Even thinking down the line in the future, at some point you will go to meet your maker, but that lead will be lying on a shelf or in a box somewhere 10, 15 or 20 years after your passing. Some future person or a curious child might plug it in not knowing how dangerous it is and get electrocuted.

Widowmaker leads are actually more dangerous than a plugged in flex that's been cut, and had the conductors stripped and exposed. People will be naturally wary of exposed conductors but they will not be wary of a three pin plug's terminals, because they are always dead when exposed - except when it is a widowmaker.

You are playing with fire, and someone will get burned sooner or later. It is just a matter of time.

22-02-2022 5:03pm

That's a long post ! ....I just knew someone would jump on the bandwagon ...for a while I had a feeling judging by a lot of other posters who were getting attacked on other things they were talking about ,that boards .ie was turning into a bullying ,hateful ,ranting and obnoxious site...not everyone....just some ......and after the last post it has just been decided that I am going to delete my account...two or three lines could have been posted or a pm but an essay was written because this person felt he was entitled to attack me without even knowing me .....I am very aware of the dangers of electricity having even studyed it for awhile but I think I see the way SOME people operate on this site and the way they gang on on other users ..I've only ever wanted to help people on this site but I see its turned into some sort of attack culture.

Goodbye.

mickdw · 22-02-2022 9:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118674209#Comment_118674209

Your comments are all well and good but your setup is not safe. Fair enough, you can handle the lead etc safely and stick to your procedure to prevent feeding out onto the lines but running the house via a random socket is not right. A 13 amp socket will take ?? 3kw or so.

I know an electrician who runs his house like this for powercut but it's far from ideal.

Amprodude · 22-02-2022 9:52pm

Thanks for all input and comments guys much appreciated.

I am thinking of going ahead and purchasing a diesel generator 10kva with Key start and AVR function. Price not important but I would like a good mobile type one on wheels where possible if available?

I have a 32 amp input blue socket outside house to connect lead from generator to house. I have a changeover switch next to fuse box. " I " is for esb "II" for generator.

Question for the experts

When switching from mains power to generator mode with changeover switch should I isolate power in the fusebox first with the red trip switch in fusebox? Should I turn off all the trip switches as well in the fusebox and only turn on the ones I require one by one and not all together?

Thank you.

jamesd · 22-02-2022 10:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675688#Comment_118675688

I turn off the main breaker before I change to generator, then once I switch to generator I push up the main breaker then.

jmreire · 22-02-2022 10:51pm

Personally, I always switch to "0" when changing either from ESP to Generator, or vice versa, even if only for 10 seconds or so, I never " flash" the switch directly from one to the other.

10 kVa is a nice size gen, not too big, and you should be able to get one with wheels, portability is pretty standard for that size gen.

With a changeover switch, you have two supplies connected to the switch, and the switch is directly connected to the fuse box / supply. so you only select which supply you need to the changeover switch. "0" selected, changeover switch is not supplying any power to the fuse box. "1" is ESB and "2" is Gen supply.

jamesd · 22-02-2022 10:55pm

I wished I had for my sparks to wire in an led on the mains in so I could see when the power was back.

jmreire · 22-02-2022 10:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675991#Comment_118675991

Yes, that should be possible, that when ESB supply returns, there should be a small warning light some where visible.

CreadanLady · 23-02-2022 10:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118674209#Comment_118674209

To do it out of ignorance is one thing but the fact that you have studied electricity and are aware of the dangers, but you knowingly went on ahead and done it anyway makes it even worse!!

Amprodude · 23-02-2022 12:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118675971#Comment_118675971

I don't have a "0" option on my changeover switch just "I" and "II" from what I see. Esb is flicked up for "I" and Generator is flicked down "II". The generator switch automatically brings down 3 other switches with it. They are aligned to the Generator option on the changeover switch.

jmreire · 23-02-2022 1:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118677776#Comment_118677776

Thats fine so. I've never used one like that, the ones I used in the past all had the 3 positions, but if yours's is professionally installed, you should be fine.