Claiming state pensions for his dead parents for 33 years!

iamstop

This is crazy. How it was able to go on for so long.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40809003.html

There should be check ups every 2 to 3 years for this kind of scam. "Gambling problems" Eh, no, robbing the State problems more so.

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058233184/claiming-state-pensions-for-his-dead-parents-for-33-years

I'm glad he got away with it for so long. Otherwise it would have just gone to the German bankers and inefficient HSE

gmisk

And they will recover feck all by the looks of it zzz

He is 7 years away from his pension. Lock him up until his 67, then don't allow him any pension. sure he has got 66 years worth of the state pension already.. but Ireland doesn't do "consequences"

How does stuff like this get through the system for so long. Outrageous

saabsaab

Could be related to this. Records aren't kept up to date and we all know of the dead voting.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30986795.html

Dempo1

This is just extraordinary, utterly baffling and shocking in every sense. Notwithstanding the actual act of claiming his Dead parents pension the lack of oversight and controls by the department is astonishing.

Heather Humphries is returning Jobseekers payments to post offices for collection, to allegedly combat fraud (it's actually to prop up Post offices) and yet this chancer able to collect his dead parents pensions for 33 years at his local post office.

The incompetence of DSP is breathtaking, it seems it was impossible to track down Death Certs , its beggars belief. How are the DSP not able to cross check registered deaths against pensions being claimed 🤔 it took an intrepid Garda detective weeks to track down Graves were the parents were buried.

For years now, Revenue and DSP have been sharing data , there's also sharing of information with the HSE it's just bizzare a State agency tasked with paying pensions can't at the very least check on occasion death notices, even apart from the death certs, how difficult is it to check RIP.IE 😳

There was clearly no Health care or prescription charges for the deceased parents in 33 years did no one ask any questions 🤔

And then there's the presidential payment for those reaching 100, the fraudster almost got another €2500 to add to his cash pile.

Mind boggling stuff .

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637433#Comment_118637433

It appears greed caught up with him in the end.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637528#Comment_118637528

It certainly did albeit I wondered had the presidents payment not been offered would he still be claiming the pension. I'd say there's a serious review going on at the moment 😏

Atlantic Dawn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637365#Comment_118637365

Some others should be joining him in jail.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637555#Comment_118637555

Would it have been possible to turn that payment down I wonder or would that have raised concerns?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637604#Comment_118637604

I suspect that saying no would have flagged up the investigation also.

I'm fairly sure there was another case recently of someone getting caught for one pension the exact same way. So any scammers now know they need to figure out how to tell the DSP someone has recently died when they are in fact long dead some time before they would turn 100!

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637365#Comment_118637365

Because public service departments don't communicate properly with each other and PPS numbers aren't used effectively.

We applied for a passport for our daughter last year and we had to submit our marriage cert, passports and birth certs - all of which have been issued by public service departments and should be linked to our PPS numbers. Then we could present to Garda Station,prove identity and PPS, submit application and let public service department check their own records to verify all documentation on the Irish system.

Link everything to the public service card and PPS number and clamp down on this type of behaviour.

Atlantic Dawn

The Public Services Card would have been introduced during the time they were dead, how did he get around that?

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637604#Comment_118637604

I'd be pretty sure red flags would have been raised but I got a sense when the Social welfare inspector called the son about the payment, they were already suspicious and gardai had started making enquiries.

Imagine in this day an age a garda had to go to a few graveyards to look for evidence of a burial and death of the parents, it's just extraordinary.

L1011

The graveyard searching thing suggests the deaths were both never registered - itself a crime I believe but probably not enough punishment to chase up.

Atlantic Dawn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637643#Comment_118637643

Yes he never registered the deaths so that would have stopped that picking it up, not sure if it's cross referenced with pensions and state benefits. I know before prisoners were in jail still getting full dole each week while they were there, some systems not linked up.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637630#Comment_118637630

The Public Service Card wasn't fully rolled out. Stopped by a court decision. A mistake as it would have pinned down such cases in the future.

Ginger83

I wonder how common this is? It must cost millions.

33 years **** me, and people wonder why the public service is often scoffed at.

Cushy work and no accountability in certain departments. With all the data they have to use at their disposal, if someone could actively take the initiative and engage their brain.

jippo nolan

At least he didn’t bring the parents into the post office to collect the pension!

gipi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637630#Comment_118637630

The Irish Times report says that the son sent in a photo of an old man he knew with the PSC application, and it wasn't queried. In the early days, pensioners didn't have to attend in person for PSC, so this just facilitated the ongoing fraud.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637658#Comment_118637658

It would make sense deaths not registered. On the state benefits forum there's literally thousands of post relating to DSP seeking proof of income, reviews of Disability allowance payments, Medical reviews , requests for bank statements etc and yet this chancer collecting his dead parents pension for 33 years without so much as a Phone call from DSP. Did I see he even managed to update a PSC using a photo of an elderly neighbour 😳

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637711#Comment_118637711

I was waiting 🤣🤣🤣🤣

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637658#Comment_118637658

Why aren't deaths registered by the hospital or undertaker? That's madness, in a time of grief someone is expected to fill in a few forms. Undertakers should be responsible for this.

gipi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637722#Comment_118637722

DSP sent out the standard review forms on several occasions, and the son sent them back, so no red flags were raised. Given the general phone scanning issues that exist, the department wouldn't "cold call" people, especially pensioners.

I also read that when the father turned pension age back in the 80s, he claimed for his wife who had died several years before...

Atlantic Dawn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637765#Comment_118637765

Yes it should be undertaker as a plan B who had to make some draft registration of the death and then a family member make the proper registration. It's an offence to not register a death within 3 months but I've never heard of anyone being fined for it, I imagine it's the next of kin responsible for it.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637766#Comment_118637766

I'd say that's fair enough but 33 years and not so much as a phone call to one of the parents or for that matter a pre arranged visit 🤔 we've heard all about welfare of the elderly, measures to protect them re management of money, bank account withdrawals etc. I'm not suggesting it's DSP job to look out for the welfare of the elderly but not a single contact from health services in 33 year years is extraordinary.

saabsaab

Were the names still on the Electoral Register?

standardg60

It was also mentioned that prior to the father's death that he was collecting the pension of his dead wife, so the son didn't lick it off the stones.

jippo nolan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637745#Comment_118637745

I couldn’t resist 🥸

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637916#Comment_118637916

I was tempted but I knew you wouldn't disappoint 🤣 but honestly could you just imagine the sight of that 😂

Geuze

The dead father had himself claimed his dead wife's pension.

So both the father and son are criminals.

Also, note that he has been on JSA "dole" for 30 years.

Bear in mind the Celtic Tiger between 1993/94 and 2008 saw massive increases in employment, and yet he couldn't find a job.

The longer I live here, the more I think that many on JSA are fraudulent.

Strumms

So nicked over half a million euros of taxpayers money. Half a million quid…

the gambling sob story effort thing will ensure he gets nothing but a suspended sentence though… 🙄 I’d be amazed if a custodial sentence is delivered…

nice that people on housing waiting lists and hospital waiting lists are sitting back and knowing full well fûck all will be done…. Maybe the taxpayers will be billed further for his ‘ treatments ‘..

jippo nolan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638013#Comment_118638013

Maybe “Paddy Power” can make a contribution toward the fine!

Gatling

This is why CAB should be expanded to look at welfare fraud and given the ability to sieze assets , rather than the usual we'll take €5 pw from a welfare payment till the 500,000 + is repaid

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638028#Comment_118638028

Odds on that isn't a dead cert.

jay0109

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637961#Comment_118637961

And yet he was able to fly over and back to Thailand. I suppose it's too much to ask that check-ins at airports ever get cross referenced to welfare payments in this country seeing as we cannot get the Welfare Office to talk to Rev Comm down the street!

Heads should roll in the Civil Service over this but we know that won't happen.

I wonder what sort of lifestyle the family in Thailand have for themselves compared to the average local there?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637433#Comment_118637433

Probable didn't submit the death notifications to the registrar. Doc fills it out, next of kin then has 3 months to submit to the registrar

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638045#Comment_118638045

DSP have robust anti fraud measures, checks, verification requirements, mygovid accounts, checkpoints, airport presence and have a number of Gardai seconded to the department. This I believe is more about the complacency around the payment and eligibility (Death) of stare pensions. This is not the first pension fraud case and whilst of course there's other frauds in the SW system but never on the scale of this.

I'm not referring to PUP as to be fair that was rushed out and 6 months in rigorous checks were being done.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638094#Comment_118638094

Does a GP or Hospital submit a death cert or just give it to next of Kin🤔 I don't know myself but I would have thought such an official document would be submitted to a registry and perhaps a copy to next of kin, legal representative etc, just curious

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638113#Comment_118638113

No they don't. A huge weakness in the system. The hospital issues a cause of death but it is up to the next of kin to register the death. This may not be done in cases.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638045#Comment_118638045

CAB have been involved in SW fraud for 15 years.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638100#Comment_118638100

They don't, these frauds in the hundreds of thousands are quite common and it's not just around pensions ,

Explain how a job seeker was able to get pup and even after it was Flagged the person was receiving the payments , along with thousands outside of Ireland.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638113#Comment_118638113

It’s against the law not to register a death, but no one ever follows up on that.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638143#Comment_118638143

Amazingly yet they are never Involved why oh yeah there not

thebourke

whats the difference between job seekers allowance and job seekers benefit?

BorneTobyWilde

Tis only money. Who should do time for the 330 million of faulty PPE bought, and then destroyed .

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638156#Comment_118638156

They raided my neighbours (early 70s, son is a major drug dealer) house in 2020. Found €57000 in cash. They’re now without any pension. I have no idea why you don’t know this.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638151#Comment_118638151

Hi there 😉 yes I understood that but I wasn't sure what the procedure is re a death cert or notification, as in does an attending GP or perhaps hospital medic notify an official department so to speak 🤔 I understand Death certs take time to be issued. I'm assuming this guys parents death was known either to a hospital or GP, would they have notified or registered the death or is that up to next of Kin, if I'm making sense

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638150#Comment_118638150

Outside Ireland?