Housing Madness

BattleCorp1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118671911#Comment_118671911

The poster has a house within an easy commute of Dublin (20km). There are people who would give their right arm (so to speak) to rent something that close to Dublin. It would be a valuable commodity if it was put up for rent. But it's not up to rental standards and the owner can't afford to put it up for rent becausee they don't have the €50k to do it up. I wouldn't consider someone in that scenario comfortable or that they don't require money. The owner could be flat broke and in great need of money for all we know.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118671818#Comment_118671818

If he genuinely can't sell it then a vacant property tax shouldn't apply, as technically the folio is occupied (the other property). It's a very rare situation though, most vacant properties are not subject to that kind of situation.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118671745#Comment_118671745

In some cases yes in other cases though there is an intended future use for the property that just doesnt suit the owner at the moment. I dont think every case should be penalised.

The way the rental system favours the tenant is also another reason to leave a property empty.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118671844#Comment_118671844

There is no shortage of cars out there, and cars are not a necessity for life. Shelter is, and housing is scarce. The two are in no way comparable.

Who said properties are going to be taken by the council? Genuinely what are you on about?

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118671748#Comment_118671748

Are the properties saleable though? There is a whole thread on houses people are trying to flog off but looks like there are no buyers..

BattleCorp1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118671951#Comment_118671951

Personally I like money so I'd be trying to get the €50k from somewhere and I'd be renting it out.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118671969#Comment_118671969

Most of those houses end up getting bought by someone - to much shock by posters.

There are very few houses that are permanently trying to be sold with no buyers interested.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118671984#Comment_118671984

Surely the poster could rent it out privately either - private rental standards are not nearly as onerous as those for HAP.

HAP standards set by councils are notoriously high in the grand scheme of things.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118671969#Comment_118671969

The houses on that thread are being sold.

Wanderer78

id imagine most land and property owners have intended future uses, but we shouldnt have to wait until they decide this, particularly when theres a serious housing crisis occurring, and a desperate need to build. land and property owners shouldnt have this level of power and control, theyre effectively sitting around doing nothing with it, as it more than likely gains value, for doing nothing! this would be easily solved by increasing dereliction and hoarding related taxes, which i suspect may occur under sf....

BattleCorp1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672005#Comment_118672005

It could be in very bad nick for all we know.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118671969#Comment_118671969

Some of the issues are to do with people wanting to walk into turn key properties but not willing to meet the prices being asked and then whinging about it. There was a bleeding heart story of a family in swords with a 100k deposit saved saying they couldn't buy where they wanted to in malahide etc. They could have but not the top end 4 bed detached house they were looking for. I think a lot of the younger generations including my own are apprehensive about buying a property that needs a bit of work.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118671844#Comment_118671844

When you made this claim before about "tons" of empty council houses, I posted a current link showing it is around 4,000. A few years ago it was around 3,600.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/more-than-3-600-local-authority-homes-vacant-at-end-of-2017-1.3671530

In the meantime tens of thousands of empty private houses are out of the stock available for habitation. And we are waiting for the number of new builds to meet the demand. I still go with my suggestion that the owners could be offered a fair price by the State, and they could be rented as social housing to people who need them, the same as happens with some new builds. Or given the emergency we are in, some people with holiday homes could consider selling them under the same basis.

I also think that the social housing argument and people getting handed houses for nothing is a different argument. That has always been the case and the alternative of creating ghettos like Ballymun, Darndale or parts of Tallaght didn't work in the past and won't work in the future. The affordability of housing for the middle classes (the new working class imo) is a separate argument.

I wonder how many people on this thread would accept a house in Darndale if offered it at local authority rent rates.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672043#Comment_118672043

..im from a similar area as those mentioned, i would not recommend it

arctictree

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672005#Comment_118672005

If you put a house on the market, you cannot discriminate on HAP. You might even get a tenant who doesn't mention they are on HAP until after they have moved in. Lots of threads about this.

arctictree

Also, a couple of posters mentioned that my case is kind of unique. It may be but I'd say there are lots of properties that have some sort of legal issue that prevent them being sold or put on the market. A bit of joined up thinking here between the housing dept and the planning dept is all that is needed.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672142#Comment_118672142

Yes but if it doesnt meet HAP standards then council wont go for it and its a moot point no?

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118671911#Comment_118671911

So explain what it means to you and what you consider "rich" or "comfortable" that upsets you so much that you want them to be punished for not fixing up a property. You are making the claim so define it better so you are clear to everyone.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672190#Comment_118672190

I'm not at all upset and I have already explained. I'm not talking about punishing people for not doing up a property.

if people can afford to leave property lying empty, then they can afford to pay a tax for the privilege

BattleCorp1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672207#Comment_118672207

It's not that simple. There are many reasons why a property could be lying empty. I'd suggest a lot of houses are lying idle because their owners are in nursing homes. Should we tax them for leaving their property idle?

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672207#Comment_118672207

Still you can define the values you are talking about. It is your claim back it up

There are many reasons not to do up a property and to claim people not selling means they are comfortable/rich is your claim. It is your claim not true and you won't back up the claim because you haven't actually thought about it enough. Repeating yourself doesn't make it any more true

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672272#Comment_118672272

In the way of things they could be in the nursing home for the next two weeks, or the next ten years. The property will have to change hands when they die. Shame to leave it empty for ten years.

Apart from the Property Tax there is nothing to pay, but in the current emergency I think the State should make some effort to move some of those properties into habitation. Just until the new builds can meet the demand.

Gant21

This sense of entitlement that people with multiple homes should home the cretins needs to stop.

Whinging about the government and now picking on people who can and do what they like with their homes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672279#Comment_118672279

It is very obvious. If someone needs money, they wouldn't leave an asset lying empty.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672310#Comment_118672310

Anytime the state try to get involved indirectly with private housing all they do is drive prices even further up. In the long run it's cheaper and more sustainable for the Local Authority to buy the A rated brand new houses rather than a run down 30-40 year old house needing 100k put into it to bring it up to any kind of decent habitable standards. It's cheaper for the tax payer as a whole to house low income and social welfare recipients in the new houses as perverse as that might sound. There is less maintenance also. That's why private buyers are also being forced out of the market and miles away from their homes to buy at best average houses. The state if you like are the biggest institutional investor / cuckoo fund.

The social contract between us who pay the majority of tax to keep the show on the road and government who are supposed to offer us a certain standard of living in return is broke. It's in tatters currently.

It's not me who I'm concerned for, It's my 14 year old. At the moment it's the norm to try and buy a forever home to raise kids etc and be close to family. My fear is in 10 years time home ownership will only be for the extremely wealthy or extremely poor in society unless something is done pronto. Maybe that's the way it is already in fact. The days of Mam and Dad giving a dig out for a deposit will be over too.

A change of Government might not be the answer but it is needed. FFFG have had enough time now to sort this or at least alleviate the issues but their interests lie with the landlords.

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118671599#Comment_118671599

I think some believe that those owning any unoccupied property as being equivalent to bourgeoisie evil capitalist pig dogs or similar.

Thing is that those who live in properties paid for the state have less liability and fewer expenses than those who live in and own their own properties. Wealth may be relative if what you own and live in would be classed as unfit for HAP but as an owner occupier you don't have the money for improvements.

The fact is both occupied and unoccupied properties unfit for habitation are not unusual. Where I live many of the older properties would be classed as unfit to live in. Whilst some of these houses may be unoccupied in reality they are often little more than significant liabilities requiring complete demolition.

combat14

serious head winds ahead for eu & irish economy with war in ukraine looming large price of absoutely everything especially energy is about to soar on top of existing price rises will make it very difficult for home buyers to continue paying nose bleed home prices here..

Europe faces sanctions nightmare of paying for Putin’s war

https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-faces-sanctions-nightmare-of-paying-for-putins-war/

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672417#Comment_118672417

If there was a sufficient supply of those A rated houses that would be good. Until there is, I suggest looking at the 227,000 dwellings on which people with two properties paid the Property Tax in 2020. There are a further 332,000 dwellings which are in the hands of people who paid the tax for three or more.

In the 2016 Census there were 182,000 vacant properties, and 62,000 holiday homes. Not counting any local authority stock. I think there is room in there for some effort to be made to get people housed in this current emergency.

BattleCorp1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672471#Comment_118672471

What are you suggesting? Forcing people to give up their holiday homes etc?

That's a good narrative. Work hard, do well for yourself and we'll force you to sell your holiday home.