Height limit buildings Dublin to abolished

Green Finers

Dublin considered to remove ridiculous buildings limits in cityscape. Dublin is European capital and silly restrictions shouldn’t be there. Is more efficient to put 100 dwelling or office on 100 metres square of land with high than to put 100 office or flat on thousands square metres of space.

https://www.thejournal.ie/new-height-limits-dublin-city-5669206-Feb2022/

Ubbquittious

Great they will be able to replace the spire with one 10 times the size

TheIrishGrover

I have no problem with tall buildings. I have a problem with tall UGLY buildings. Or tall buildings that look out of place. Of course this is purely subjective. I think the SIPTU building is an eyesore. There are plenty of tall buildings in London and they add to the skyline rather than detract from the older skyline. I think The Shard fits PERFECT into London but do not like The Gherkin. I like the building but don't think it suits London. Should be in Paris on Barcelona or somewhere. But that's just me.

I think Paris has a great balance of the old and the new.

The skyscrapers gathered in La Defense and as a result the skyline looks attractive.

The key is though that the individual buildings in Paris are aesthetically pleasing on the eye.

Modern houses and commercial buildings in Ireland are disgusting to look at and the thought of a dozen of them shooting into the clouds has me heaving.

Greyfox

Brilliant news, long overdue. Building up is desperately needed to help with the housing crisis.

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118602044#Comment_118602044

Welcome back to Ballymun markII

touts

Long overdue. Development in Dublin and most other Irish cities has been stunted by a nostalgic rose tinted view of the 1940s and 50s. Everything gets bundled into the idea of protecting Georgian Dublin even if it is little more than a 50s block shed with a flat roof.

Once this goes they need to abolish An Taisce with it.

Strumms

No problem with higher rise but the planning departments in councils and some of the lower rise they approve, jeez…hopefully it’s not a pathway to eyesore city but I’d have my doubts…

a lot of high rise CAN be beautiful.. as previously mentioned La Defense in Paris is stunning to look at and walk around…

EmmetSpiceland

As long as we don’t try for a “world’s tallest building” and invoke the Skyscraper Effect.

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118602065#Comment_118602065

This would be different, the high rise apartments that we need will be decent looking apartments aimed at working people, the more the better.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118602044#Comment_118602044

Are Irish people happy to live in high-rise apartment blocks now?

They weren't very successful in Ballymun and many people living there wanted to live in a regular house so the council had to re-develop the area and build houses. Small developments of low-rise flat complexes eg 4/5 storeys that were built in the 50/60's seemed to be a bit more acceptable but many of those were also demolished. Even duplex developments built in some places around the city are considered to be 'less desirable'.

Just because high-rise is common in other cities doesn't mean it will be successful here. Afaik, large developments of high-rise apartments in many cities can have a lot of social problems or become soul-less empty places with no sense of community - why do the powers that be think it would be any different here?

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118602225#Comment_118602225

👍

Thelonious Monk

I don't think super high rise will solve all our problems, but why aren't we building even 10-15 storey apartment blocks everywhere, in the midst of a housing crisis?

And would people ever shut the f**k up about Ballymun. Basically a load of totally impoverished people were dumped into them with absolutely no services or facilities and left to rot.

High rise works all over the world including in cities just over the Irish sea, there's no reason they can't work here.

I mean do people really think we can just keep building semi D suburbs and one off housing? How thick are people in this country?

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118602225#Comment_118602225

Working people ? To make them affordable you'd need those Japanese capsules stacked three high per floor.

Economics101

The Journal article referred to by the OP was about DCC updating height limits which could in some circumstances allow for 25 -floor buildings. Much of the comment seems to be about abolishing restrictions more or less entirely, which was not what DCC proposed. Very high buildings can be justified in some areas , abut not in others, for what should be obvious reasons. Some recent proposals passed by An Bord Pleanala have bee appealed to the courts, and in many of these (and other proposals) the high rise buildings are inappropriately located.

You can increase density in Dublin without going for very tall buildings. Well-designed neighbourhoods with blocks of 3 to 5 floors can provide for a good urban environment, dense enough to be near shops and good transport links. After all that's how many of the best areas in continental cities are configured.

tinytobe

What often bothers me in Dublin is that there are office buildings which call them selves "tower" but in reality are nothing more than a tree stump.

If they were to build real high rises in Dublin and they were far enough away from the center of the city, I don't think anybody would bother.

These "Hanging Gardens" as well as that "Tara Street Tower" seemed nice on pictures, and also rather conservative in architecture, but sadly, it's always one of these things which never really get built.

Kermit.de.frog

There are a number of high rise buildings under construction or starting at the moment. Two 22 storey towers are on Tara Street and will be very visible over the next few months as the lift shafts start appearing.

I know the one next to Tara Street Station will be highest on the island of Ireland so far.

Maybe people will realise it's not the end of the world.

Also a 30 storey building should be starting soon opposite Heuston which will be higher again around 100 meters.

It does appear big changes are coming...and it's not before time.

The docklands is absolute joke, what were they thinking with 6 and 7 storey buildings down there !?? Such a waste.

Ubbquittious

I think there will be a lot of empty office blocks in the near future that could be turned into housing. Will take ages to do it.

I'm not even convinced there is a shortage of buildings in the country or in Dublin. So many just laying idle.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118603061#Comment_118603061

I saw a map of vacant properties in Cork, Limerick and Waterford a while back (might have been on here actually). I thought things were bad but **** me...absolutely scandalous.

Ubbquittious

I can see how this is will go in the medium-long term. There will be a flurry of high density housing built over the next few years and many great sky scraper projects get the go-ahead and they'll all be completed just in time to have them ready for the next crash. We may even get an Irish version of the Ryugyong hotel complete with revolving restaurants

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118602270#Comment_118602270

Yes, absolutely. If someone doesn't want to live in high rise the fact that they exist and are helping reduce demand will mean it will be cheaper for those people who want a home that's not high rise. Nobody is suggesting that we repeat the Ballymun mistakes.

High rise will work here as we desperately need it, we are in a housing crisis remember. Social problems are just as likely in housing estates, we just have to make sure the apartment blocks have good access to transport, shops, gyms, pubs etc. If the apartments aren't far from the city centre then they are in a desirable location. High rise is one of the best ways to tackle the housing crisis as the demand is clearly there and I think Dublin would be a city of eejits if we don't allow at least a few high rise apartment blocks to be built.

NickNickleby

I wouldn't have a problem with high rise. What I DO have a problem with is apartments that are little bigger than shoeboxes, with custom built furniture in the show apartment to fool viewers. This is hearsay as far as apartments go (but so many people said it that it must have some validity) but during the boom I went viewing new builds in North County Dublin and saw how smaller furniture was used to make bedrooms look bigger.

I also don't buy into the notion that high rise = antisocial. I worked in Corporation flats (still standing so wont mention them) where the tenants criticised every aspect of them. Common areas were like a pigsty. Shortly thereafter I was working in an almost identical block called Ardoyne House in Ballsbridge. Ardoyne House was at least 50% taller. Pristine in every respect. One positive thing they had in common was the floor area of the flats - it was great. The big difference today is it costs €3.5k(last time I looked) per month to rent in Ardoyne House . Whereas the other ones have about 25% boarded up, despite affordable rents from the Corpo. Model all new apartments on these and families can live in them very comfortably.

And now the contradiction. I believe in houses with gardens for families. Build out and put proper flipping transport links in. Put high rise in town for offices, and apartments for singles and couples. They're the ones who'll spend in restaurants and bars, keeping the city centre alive.

listermint

The only people that will be buying or living in these high rises will be foreign investment firms or 1 percenters in short term let's.

Anyone that thinks this is a solution to the housing issue hasnt a clue how high rise works these days. They letting their need to see 'cool' new design cloud the reality of what these will be used for.

y0ssar1an22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118603502#Comment_118603502

there is a supply and demand problem all over the country. in some places one exceeds the other.

i would even that out, make it national. where there is an oversupply of housing in a particular area, that should be where people on the housing list get a free house.

where demand exceeds supply, then top bidder should win.

would also ban FDI on housing, unless like a 100 year lease is signed on the property.

NickNickleby

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118603502#Comment_118603502

I can see you're point about the "1 percenters" , in fact a lot of the quality blocks in town at the moment appear to be populated this way. Hence the €3.5k price tag I mentioned. But, why? In the 1980s we had a few Spanish students over the course of about 4 summers. They all came from apartments, but the apartments were described as large with good quality common areas and outdoor space.

Maybe our psyche doesn't tend towards long term apartment living. Despite all I've written, I've never considered apartment living.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118603573#Comment_118603573

Apartments on Spain very rarely of ever breach our own height restrictions. Your talking 8 to 10 stories mostly. Costs are cheap at this level. Plus land values aren't near what they would be in Dublin City centre.

NSAman

RIAI won’t be happy.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118603502#Comment_118603502

For me this is the absolute solution... high end apartments within walking distance of city centre built by these international investors for high end clients. The government should make sure they are expensive so as they not turn to ghettos... this might take pressure of the suburbs and stop these cuckoo funds buying houses built for real people and not these corporate funds... a family member sold a house recently in Clonsilla 25k from city centre... it went €40k more than expect price... sold to a cuckoo fund... crazy stuff...

I've being argueing this for over 20 years... single story houses in city centre Capital city in 2021...

TheIrishGrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118602089#Comment_118602089

Yep. That's stunning. EMBRACE the difference between the old and the new... And let's be honest, Dublin Skyline? Not exactly Paris in the first place, is it?

Mike Murdock

As long as they are built to a good standard, and not Celtic Tiger levels of soundproofing, fire safety and overall quality, then great.

Dyr

One of the tell tale signs of the common-or-gardner Irish bore is that they passionately believe that we need to "build up" in Dublin and our inability to do so is some sort of moral failing

Sure, no harm, we need somewhere to put the endless waves of Fordiners in the city centre and sure might as well make them feel at home in their global standardised metropolis, given that the natives are becoming thin on the ground.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118605724#Comment_118605724

What do you propose we do instead? Build endless expanses of semi-Ds, a sprawling suburbia with nothing but identical houses?

Yes, I too long for a future where all the countryside is gone and replaced with 3-bed semi Ds.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118605826#Comment_118605826

This is what these people actually think. I don't think people over a certain age or from a certain demographic understand what the word "finite" means. They think you can just keep building semi-ds and one off housing into the coming centuries.

We get what we deserve in this country.

BruteStock

It beggars belief how that rule was kept for so long. Shuld have been done away with 20 years ago.. Urban sprawl has long been taken to its limits.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118605985#Comment_118605985

That rule changes nothing. Its a maximum height limit.

Most new buildings were 2-6 story in that time anyways, this rule change will do nothing to address sprawl. Proper zoning in and around the city to set decent minimum height limits is needed, but you cant really legislate for that - its up to city planners to do something decent for once.

BruteStock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606018#Comment_118606018

Why can't you legislate for it?

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118605826#Comment_118605826

It won't happen. Maybe a few 100,000 more houses will be built before the population of Ireland goes into terminal decline. Fears of "no more countryside" are greatly exaggerated

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118605173#Comment_118605173

I think Dublin councillors have this view of 4 story Georgian Dublin buildings. They think they are preserving Santorini or some immaculate heritage. In reality Georgian Dublin is OK but still a little bit shabby. I don't know why we don't just have a CBD in the IFSC where we can concentrate all the high rise buildings away from Georgian Dublin and close to railway links.

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606171#Comment_118606171

I'm sure there is CBD in the IFSC.

Probably a bit of THC as well 😊

TheIrishGrover

Not to mention MSG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606190#Comment_118606190

I must be showing my age :) CBD is what we were taught in Geography class was a Central Business District. I guess we already have a CBD in the IFSC but maybe some of the remaining old warehouses could be replaced by tall structures that won't really harm the skyline in the immediate area (with all due respect to the locals). Down closer to the Point Depot (again showing my age) might be opportunities.

TheIrishGrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118605724#Comment_118605724

W.... Wh.... I.... WHERE did THAT come from? WHERE in this thread did we bemoan the influx of "Fordiners" to the city centre? Where did ANYONE here state that "natives are becoming thin on the ground"?

Not EVERYTHING is about immigration. Not EVERY thread has to be about "dem Fordinners". YOU were the first one to bring this up. If I look through this, the up-to-now civil conversation was about the pros and cons of building up. But now it's about race...

J3sus Chr1st. Just once it would be nice to have a conversation on Boards without it being dragged into the mud.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606226#Comment_118606226

It has pretty much all already been developed or is in the process of being developed as far down as the East Link bridge at this stage

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118602309#Comment_118602309

There was lots of stuff in Ballymun though

shopping center

swimming pool

pubs

parks

public transport

library

medical facilities

sports clubs … soccer / GAA / pitch and putt, gyms

no more, no less then most places…

i know people from Ballymun and they made successes of their lives…. One a businessman the other his son now a lecturer… from Popintree…but living in Norway now and lecturing.

again though we need to be addressing this population increase that clearly the country has no safe method of absorbing without putting at risk the wellbeing of the native population, passport holders and taxpayers…

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606453#Comment_118606453

Ballymunners had to literally sabotage Dublin Corpos works to build a car park to get a swimming pool built instead, it was one of the few facilities that existed. Ballymuns problem was massive unemployment and a massive youth population (largest in europe at the time) with no capacity to cope. Didnt help that the media used Ballymun as its poster child for any item on drugs, crime etc as the Towers were a good visual image.

The real crack in these threads about housing is that people will give chapter and verse on what needs to be done while studiosly ignoring the huge influx of immigration that is driving this.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118605826#Comment_118605826

I'd curtail immigration to the largest degree possible, revoke existing visas and watch in wonder as the housing crisis amazingly evaporates.

TheIrishGrover

One trick pony

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606574#Comment_118606574

Totally delusional - births alone saw our population grow significantly in the last decade. And it will continue to grow.

You genuinely have to be delusional to think that building low density housing is sustainable.

TheIrishGrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606747#Comment_118606747

I wouldn't engage TBH.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118602270#Comment_118602270

If Ballymun had been semi detached it would still have been a sht hole and same goes for the ones in Europe.

There are as many successful block as their are Ballymuns

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118605724#Comment_118605724

Most Irish people think the lack of "natives" on the ground is one of the best improvements Dublin has ever seen.