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SAS assassinations in the Republic of Ireland

  • 06-02-2022 3:08pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭


    I meant to post this in the history forum if a mod can move it for me.

    Does anyone have anymore information on SAS activity in the Republic based on their own research?

    There has always been strong suspicion of the SAS operating in the Republic of Ireland, many times after the troubles ended SAS members have confirmed that they would carry out surveillance in the Republic, but did they do far more than just that? Numerous people were assassinated on this side of the border during the troubles, most of which were automatically attributed to loyalists based on the guns used and the targets, but was there far more to many of these murders?

    The SAS in 1976 kidnapped an IRA man Sean McKenna on the other side of the border, the SAS man told him "if you want to end it here and now then your death will be claimed by the UVF, otherwise come with us." The claims along with many others were strongly denied at the time but in a documentary on Robert Nairac from the 2000s, the former SAS deputy commander claims that the story is more than likely true.

    This in correlation with the flagstaff hill incident, which was an international incident between the Republic and the United Kingdom where eight SAS men were captured by the Irish army on this side of the border, they were carrying sterling submachine guns, a browning pistol and a pump action shotgun, the weapons found on the SAS men were significant as they were not weapons you would expect the SAS to be using, the weapons found on them were the same weapons "loyalists" were using to kill numerous Irish people near the border in the Republic in the same year. The shotgun immediately drew the attention of the Gardaí since the same type of weapon was used in three recent murders in the area,

    The Nairac documentary can be found here if anyone is interested. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D9DJ8L44puTQ&ved=2ahUKEwj-55G36tz1AhXHQkEAHZxhA-4QFnoECAcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3UKTwgcBNncfORTKLw9ZCO

    Post edited by Harryd225 on


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Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    That's more conspiracy theory than history tbh



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    Nothing I said in the thread is conspiracy at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    Are you trying to say that the SAS being caught by the Irish army in the Republic armed with weapons "loyalists" were using to assassinate people in the Republic is a conspiracy?

    8 SAS men were charged in the Republic in 1976 with being in possession of guns and ammunition with the intent to endanger life and without fire arm license.




  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,406 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    the weapons found on the SAS men were significant as they were not weapons you would expect the SAS to be using,

    Those firearms were widely used by all arms of the British military including the SAS.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Standard issue for the SAS at the time going by numerous accounts from soldiers at the time..


    Someone needs to do their homework properly 😉



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    They were not normal weapons expected to be found on the SAS traveling around the border, they are the same weapons of choice used by loyalists who were assassinating numerous people on this side of the border, complete nonsense to say that these weapons were standard SAS weapons you could always expect the SAS to have on them.

    The shotgun was the most suspicious, the other weapons were found from a wide array of weapons the SAS might have used during that time.

    The guards at the time didn't find it so absurd, the SAS men were also questioned in relation to the murders of numerous people in the Republic but were released due to a lack of evidence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,406 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    As I said, they were the standard weapons used by the SAS, if you see some conspiracy in the SAS using the weapons they were issued as a matter of course, then that's on you.

    The fact Loyalists also used them doesn't mean it was unusual for the SAS to use them. Collusion would have seen some slip into Loyalist hands.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I've never really trusted the Super Army Soldiers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    A former SAS deputy commander in the documentary I linked says that Sean McKennas claims that he was kidnapped by the SAS and told "if you want to end it here and now then your death will be claimed by the UVF" was probably true. Yet people on here seem to find SAS activity in the Republic as absurd. I find that strange, although maybe not as they might not have much knowledge of what was going on back in those days.



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Yes we all know of the incident. We are also aware that the SAS admit to carrying out surveillance. The point where you jump to asking if they also carried out assassinations based on their weaponry is where we enter conspiracy theory territory rather than history. It's certainly not impossible that they did, but unless you can put forward a lot more evidence, this ain't history.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    I quoted an SAS deputy commander in the documentary I linked, where he said claims from Sean McKenna that he was kidnapped by the SAS and told if he didn't come with them he would be killed and his death would be claimed by the UVF. The SAS commander said this was probably true and probably happened, yet it's so hard to believe for some of the posters on here and not hard to believe for an SAS commander. I doubt this was the only time this happened either.


    The SAS aren't likely to leave behind any die hard evidence for a simple assassination which is why I was asking other people if they have any suspicious evidence on this subject.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    'Probably true'. That's not evidence.

    And anyway, the SAS are hardly the most reliable source, they lie, deny and claim as it suits them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    I'm hardly saying it's evidence, I'm just saying that it's clearly not an absurd unbelievable claim like you are letting on.

    Why would an SAS commander bother lying in a documentary in the late 2000s? I could understand him lying saying the SAS didn't operate on this side of the border, why would he lie saying otherwise.

    Also the guards and army had their own suspicions at the time and questioned the soldiers captured on this side of the border about the murder of numerous people.

    Anyway this isn't a thread trying to convince people who have little knowledge on the troubles, I'm simply asking people with knowledge if they have any other evidence pointing towards SAS assassinations in the Republic.

    Of all the stuff that went on back then, this is a fairly minor claim.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭cajonlardo


    There was a book published early 90's . The author claimed to be sas and it detailed operations and killings in the republic.

    It was called " The Nemisis File" I did not recall lads going missing in the circumstances detailed in the book nor were there families or friends asking about these missing men. Lots of stuff in the book seemed fabricated but there was a certain realism in narrative that suggested it was a soldier writing it.

    It later emerged that the author had indeed served in the British army but I think he turned out to be a mechanic or something similar. Just knew there was a market for fairytales and cashed in. Google it if you are interested

    O.P , I cant help with your questions but you know that if people did go missing or killed then theres family and friends who would be asking for them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    An RTE documentary from a while back that provided clear evidence collusion was committed on a large scale and with impunity. Much of this collision involved killing innocent people on this side of the border such as the Dublin Monaghan bombings, The documentary came to the conclusion that there is clear evidence that points to collusion being not only practice but policy; it was planned and directed with full political authority”.

    I don't see how after all of this that it can still be so hard to believe that the army wouldn't have crossed the border to carry out assassinations and kidnappings of specific people.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    What do you mean "if people did go missing or killed"? What are you on about?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,981 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    there is no doubt the SAS were very active on this side of the border.

    there is also no doubt that they were highly likely involved in some killings as well.

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    True, although I can understand some younger people with little to no knowledge of the troubles would find it hard to believe, like the claims of collusion in the RTE documentary above.

    Not that being young has anything to do with it, there are many young people with far more knowledge on the troubles than most older people.

    The RTE documentary came to the conclusion that there is clear evidence that points to collusion with loyalist paramilitaries being not only practice but policy; it was planned and directed with full political authority”.

    I can understand this sort of stuff could be very hard to believe for some less informed people with little to no interest in the troubles, so I can understand where they are coming from.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    There was no one going "missing", I or I don't think anyone else claimed that there was. You seem to have misread some of the thread, In reference to the kidnapping claims by former IRA men, they were wanted men in Northern Ireland who were kidnapped by the SAS in the Republic and then handed over to the regular British army in Northern Ireland, they did not disappear off the face of the earth, although some of them were told if they resisted they would be killed here and now and their death would be claimed by the UVF.

    Thanks for the info, I found the book https://www.amazon.com/Nemesis-File-Story-Execution-Squad-ebook/dp/B00HBU22X

    The soldier was a former SAS member according to numerous sources.

    It looks like a legitimate book and a good read, can't find anything about the book being false like you say in your post, can you please provide some evidence to what you said in your post so that I don't waste my time reading it, thanks.

    Edit: After more research I found the book was false.

    Post edited by Harryd225 on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭cajonlardo


    Apoligies I did mis-read your o.p.

    For some reason I cant link this but if you google goodreads.com nemisis files you will see where the books claims were investigated and found to be false. Googling the author also throws up several reputable sources discrediting him.

    I only remember this because there was a lot of publicity about the books claims at the time



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    Well they were hardly going to admit they were on this side of the border to commit an assassination were they🙄 or that they were hunting down IRA suspects.

    And I seriously doubt you were "all aware" of this incident.

    Facts are the guards were very suspicious about this, The shotgun drew the attention of the Gardaí since the same type of weapon was used in three recent murders in the area, the SAS soldiers were questioned about the recent deaths of multiple Irish people on this side of the border, they were also charged with possession of firearms with intent to endanger life.

    The Irish army also found a dagger in the boot of one of the SAS cars, the SAS men were captured one day after the funeral of Seamus Ludlow, an innocent civilian believed to have been mistaken for a high ranking IRA member who had been shot with identical weapons and who had also been stabbed numerous times with a dagger.

    Post edited by Harryd225 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    Jj



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,354 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Friend of mine worked in Dublin Airport during the 70s and 80s.

    Always reckoned the SAS came into Ireland from the South using their own aircraft.

    This was one one of the planes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    🤣😂😂🤣🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    You are precisely right, they do lie and deny as it suits them which is why there was massive suspicion about that event, some people on this thread are trying to rewrite history and downplay what happened.

    FitzGerald was asked in the Dail that "in light of the assurance given by the British Government that their forces would not operate in civilian attire what now was the Government’s response. “Troops in uniform are clearly identifiable, but this SAS unit was not and the men were carrying guns (pump action shotguns) not used by any army in the world but by thugs and criminals” a gun that has been used to kill numerous people on this side of the border just recently.

    They were, the Dail was told by Deputy Dowling, operating on what was termed “a search and destroy mission”.

    That was where it remained until the heat ebbed out of situation, even though Jack Lynch, then leader of the opposition told the Minister that “people are genuinely apprehensive about army personnel travelling on our side of the Border in unconventional garb carrying unconventional weapons”.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,354 ✭✭✭corner of hells




  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Oh look it's the SAS with a pump action m870 shotgun



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,922 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    So who exactly was assassinated in the Republic?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    I was quoting an article by the independent, it was a quote from someone in the Dail.

    People were rightly suspicious of the SAS operating on this side of the border and what they were doing.



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